Thought, opinions, facts, and honesty?

[KelliH]

I don't want anyone to feel bad that the title of that thread regarding keeping the Hammack Fund up had the name Hammack in it. It's ok. Yes I do know the TRUTH about some of the things that went on behind the scenes regarding the Hayden Fund. (His last name was Putteet, not Hammack. Just in case anyone does not know. He would want people to know that, and so do I). Hearing these things were painful for me. It's ok now though, for after a few hours I have come to realize that this is not about me and it is not about my son. This was the catalyst for something ugly that I cannot fully comprehend and never will I don't think. And it doesn't even come close to the pain and realization that I will never get to hug my son again, smell his dirty socks, run my fingers through his hair and clean his room again.

I am, always have been and always will be about the truth. I try my hardest not to be a vengeful (sp?) person. I try to always be generous and kind and think of other people, and I try to put others interests ahead of my own. I cannot help but be that way, it is the way my Mom and Dad raised me and it is the way I have raised my children as well.

I want to make this VERY clear. When the time is right and I am able to, if no one else has the bravery and forthrightness to post the dispicable behind the scenes story of what happened regarding this matter I will do it myself. Out of spite? No. Vengence? Nope. Anger? Nope. I will post it because I think the members of this website deserve to know the truth about it. That's all. Period.

Will I be banned from Fauna for posting this? Who knows and I really do not care. Fauna has NEVER been about self promotion for me or making sales. In fact I got little to no sales from this website ever (directly). It was always about a community and a place for my fellow leopard gecko keepers and breeders to hang out and talk shop and share pictures.

I am deeply grateful to the reptile community as a whole coming together and helping my family give my son the sendoff from this messed up world that he deserved. If not for the donations and auctions I would have had to sell my gecko collection to be able to give him the funeral that he deserved. That would have put my family in a horrible financial situation as my geckos are a huge part of my family income. Much bigger I would guess than most of you would think. Zookeepers don't make much money, but damn, they are sexy!

And just in case anyone has the audacity to ask me if I was coerced into posting the answer is a big fat no.

 

[Rebel Dragons]

I want to make this VERY clear. When the time is right and I am able to, if no one else has the bravery and forthrightness to post the dispicable behind the scenes story of what happened regarding this matter I will do it myself. Out of spite? No. Vengence? Nope. Anger? Nope. I will post it because I think the members of this website deserve to know the truth about it. That's all. Period.

It breaks my heart to even think about something dispicable happening behind the scenes.

I am completely clueless if there was and I honestly can't say I really want to know.

Kelli I am sorry that something has angered you reguarding all this. It I hope was not done on purpose. And if it was, the person(s) should be exposed for what they have done. I don't think an explanation in the world would redeem the person(s) involved.

 

[PaulSage]

I feel a little awkward commenting on this since I am not one of those privy to the behind-the-scenes uglies, but I'm pretty sure that I'm glad that I don't know those things. I guess what troubles me the most is that you [Kelli] are aware of any dispicable actions that took place concerning the auctions and all. It's not that I don't think you have a right to hear them, it's just that I agree with what someone said to me regarding it being "too much too soon".

My actions and statments have been based soley upon the public posts and, of course, my feelings of compassion and helplessness. Too think that there are even more 'uglies' than the ones that have been posted is a little hard to swallow.

I was starting to worry that anything that gets 'exposed' would make me feel foolish for what I've said and done in an attempt to help, but ya know what?... I'm glad I could've helped in any way that I have, regardless of how my view of certain people may or may not change. As much as I have tried to neutralize certain feuds, I obviously can't be held responsible for what someone else says or does.

I mentioned in another thread that there still may be somethings that need to be aired in order for people to get things off their chest and move on. I have a feeling that there's probably a lot more to it, and I'm sure it's not as simple as I may make it seem.

I know I've talked about forgiveness and apologies, but it's not feasible to let certain issues go until they've run their course. Also, how are people supposed to know that they've offended or hurt someone else unless they say something?

So Kelli, if you feel the need to address something, by all means do so. You're obviously entitled to express your feelings just like anyone else here, and despite how hard some things are to hear, they're usually harder to say.

 

[dragonflyreptiles]

I am deeply grateful to the reptile community as a whole coming together and helping my family give my son the sendoff from this messed up world that he deserved. If not for the donations and auctions I would have had to sell my gecko collection to be able to give him the funeral that he deserved. That would have put my family in a horrible financial situation as my geckos are a huge part of my family income. Much bigger I would guess than most of you would think. Zookeepers don't make much money, but damn, they are sexy!

Kelli, that is the main reason I wanted to do what I could to try to help your family. I knew from talking to you that your husband was a Zoo Keeper, a very fulfilling job and one he loved and one I would love to have if I weren't now a stay home mom but as for money, its just not there.

See my husband is a cemetary worker, he actually does the services for a group of cemetaries from here to Raleigh and I know what it cost and I know what little he gets paid as well.

I can also tell when he has had a service that involved a child, it is very hard on him and its best on those days not to say much to him at all, but its even harder on him when the family could only afford the bare minimum or a service had to be delayed for a couple of days due to money issues and those families are not only devastated by the loss of a child but by the inability to give them what their child deserved in a proper burial.

Im not saying that you could not have given Hayden what he deserved but I know how costly it is and cannot even imagine the pain you were going through, I just wanted to help you have something so very special as it being the last thing you could do for Hayden.

 

[Karen Hulvey]

I am deeply grateful to the reptile community as a whole coming together and helping my family give my son the sendoff from this messed up world that he deserved. If not for the donations and auctions I would have had to sell my gecko collection to be able to give him the funeral that he deserved. That would have put my family in a horrible financial situation as my geckos are a huge part of my family income. Much bigger I would guess than most of you would think. Zookeepers don't make much money, but damn, they are sexy!

I'm glad everyone pitched in to help. I don't know how people can bear not only the loss but the financial burden too all at the same time.

Kelli, I admire you very much. You have such strength that it amazes me. When my dad died 5 years ago, I couldn't get out of bed for a full week (except to help pick his burial plot and go to the funeral). It felt like my stomach was in my mouth all the time. I couldn't eat and certainly didn't want to talk to anyone. Then about a month after his death I redid my bathtub walls. It looked great and I went straight to the phone and was dialing dad's number to tell him about it. Then it hit me.

I, too, am in the dark about this "behind the scenes" whatever it is but that's nothing new. Sometimes being in the dark is a good thing.

 

[A_Kendergirl]

I am one of the few who can really say they have 1st hand knowledge of what went on the night that we found out. Our wounds were real, and our hearts were bleeding for you Kelli. We all did what we could to help out in some way. Not one single person had a selfish thought in their mind. I am glad to know that you know the truth of the situation Kelli. It saddens me to see how far things have become twisted. I hope that, with time, our wounds will heal and you still consider this a place to hang out with friends.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Kelli...Kelli...

This really was only between Chris and I. But it appears that perhaps ill conceived choices were made to make this otherwise.

Kelli called me last night and told me that 'someone' had made her aware of the despicable actions of some of the Fauna members during this incomprehensible tragedy. She asked me... no, begged me, to post everything I know including all the correspondence about the hidden agendas that appear to have been spawned by the unbearable loss of Hayden. I knew the TRUTH, but tried to protect her from it. The light of theTRUTH always prevails through the darkest of storms, but I wanted to hold an umbrella over Kelli's head during the blackest hour. I think ALL of us wanted to shield her from it.

All except two people. Those two people are the ones that did the hijacking... but not from each others website stats. No. The hijacking went on when neither could keep their own personal and political issues to themselves. Kelli's tragedy got hijacked by two website owners in every single thread on this subject on the "SOUND OFF" Forum! The help, both emotional and financial, that Kelli and her family needed from the reptile community became overpowered by a bitter battle between two webmasters who were so caught up in their own not-so-private business.

Oh my God, I am so heartsick for you Kelli, and I told you I would tell the truth. I tried, but felt like it would only hurt you more if I did, and then deleted my post because I was being bullied for writing it. I let you down.

Rich, Chris... if ANYBODY has the burden of telling the TRUTH, it is you two!

 

[WebSlave]

Yes, you are right Marcia.

Here is the PM that I sent to Chris back on 6/23:

Chris,

I just want you to be aware of an appearance you are making that you may not be aware of, but other people are taking note of. This aspect was not lost to me either, but I wasn't sure how much other people would take exception to it. Rather then go further into details, I figure one of the emails I have gotten would be best to enlighten you so you can think this over:

I know this is a little stupid of me but I am a little upset that I went to webslave to ask for the auctions to be posted on Fauna and he said it was OK, in the mean time Chris J is taking a lot of this over to his forum.

I feel that fauna is a larger community and the auctions should stay on fauna and it seems to me that he is hijacking this tragic situation to up his forum in standings.

I feel so much for Kelli and her family and have slept with my kids by my side since this happened and cried everynight for her and her son.

I just do not like when people run with things like this to make a positive outcome for themselves.

I know there is nothing that either of us can say about this but I needed to vent my feelings about this to someone.

And you may PM me back and tell me I am stupid, if you do thats fine.

BTW, this email was NOT sent to me, but was addressed to someone else who then forwarded it to me. The response from the original recipient is as follows:

If there is one thing I can give you out of this, is that you ALWAYS have every right to your feelings. Always. And, from the very beginning I never thought you were stupid even for a moment. I enjoy your presence on our board a great deal and I appreciate your request for auctions for the Hammacks.
In this particular case, I think you have great clarity of perspective.

In short, some people think it is rather tacky that you are using this incident as a means to try to draw people from this site over to yours. That may not really be your intention, but that is the APPEARANCE it is giving.

Take care.

I am sorry, but I judged matters by what I saw, not knowing anything about what transpired beforehand. I took a bunch of unrelated issues and incidents and made them into a picture that was not accurate. Chris's intentions were apparently honorable, but I just did not see that. I felt there was something horrible taking place, and I reacted based on this mistaken impression. To think that this harmed Kelli has pretty much shattered my confidence in my own decisions. I don't know how to apologize to Kelli in any meaningful way. When I read the posts made by Kelli in another thread, the heart just went right out of me for anything at all.

To be honest, I now have doubts about all of my latest decisions. Perhaps the most controversial ones, I am wrong about them as well. Perhaps this site has finally completely overwhelmed me. After I consider which of those decisions to roll back, I will be basically walking away from this as far as the day to day operations are concerned. There are some things only I can do with this site, so I will do them as needed, when I get around to it.

So, think what you will about this. I tried to do my best, but obviously failed. I am done worrying and agonizing over this site. It has brought me nothing but grief.

 

[Jim O]

Everyone,

Please, please, please. While I think that I know who wrote what to whom, at this point it does not need to be the start of another world war. There are Kelli and Steve and their remaining children to consider. There is Rich who is now also suffering bona fide anguish. There is Mike and his family. I'm sure Chris is not happy either and has had at least a moment or two of self doubt and angst. Robin is suffering for her dear friend. And their are the rest of us who have cried with our families over the tragedies that have befallen people of late, and hugged our own children so much tighter. I hardly know Kelli except from one thread on the BOI regarding some snakes that were sent on breeding loan to someone who did not do the right thing by her and Steve, and least of all by the animals themselves. I bring this up not to open that wound for Kelli and Steve, as I am certain that it pales in comparison to their current suffering, but to remind people that after seeing and reading that thread another Fauna member, Wes Pollock, went personally and retrieved some of the animals for them. That's what community is about. People helping one another, not holding grudges and other emotional poison.

In the big picture there was a colossal misunderstanding and likely a clash of egos. Big fekkiin deal! Let's all let it go and move on. Further acrimony serves no one's purpose, except perhaps Satan's own.

I hope and pray that Kelli and Steve and their children find some peace and comfort knowing that some of us rose to an occasion irrespective of politics. And maybe some solace in seeing that others were simply the frail humans that we all are, full of our own baggage.

Now is a time for all to put this aside and try to give each other some clean slates over this particular issue and remember what it was all about to start with.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Everyone,

Please, please, please. While I think that I know who wrote what to whom, at this point it does not need to be the start of another world war. There are Kelli and Steve and their remaining children to consider. There is Rich who is now also suffering bona fide anguish. There is Mike and his family. I'm sure Chris is not happy either and has had at least a moment or two of self doubt and angst. Robin is suffering for her dear friend. And their are the rest of us who have cried with our families over the tragedies that have befallen people of late, and hugged our own children so much tighter. I hardly know Kelli except from one thread on the BOI regarding some snakes that were sent on breeding loan to someone who did not do the right thing by her and Steve, and least of all by the animals themselves. I bring this up not to open that wound for Kelli and Steve, as I am certain that it pales in comparison to their current suffering, but to remind people that after seeing and reading that thread another Fauna member, Wes Pollock, went personally and retrieved some of the animals for them. That's what community is about. People helping one another, not holding grudges and other emotional poison.

In the big picture there was a colossal misunderstanding and likely a clash of egos. Big fekkiin deal! Let's all let it go and move on. Further acrimony serves no one's purpose, except perhaps Satan's own.

I hope and pray that Kelli and Steve and their children find some peace and comfort knowing that some of us rose to an occasion irrespective of politics. And maybe some solace in seeing that others were simply the frail humans that we all are, full of our own baggage.

Now is a time for all to put this aside and try to give each other some clean slates over this particular issue and remember what it was all about to start with.

Amen Bro

 

[Chris@TSE]

Alright.....

Well this will probably be one of my last posts here, I'm taking the time to distance myself from this place for a number of reasons. Both personal, and professional. I'll always make myself available for any of you in the community, mark my words.... You know how to get in touch with me. But I feel it is best I distance myself from fauna at this time, at least for a while until I can allow some of recent events to pass and sink in with a bit of clarity. Some of my statements below may explain my reasoning a bit better... Excuse the novel but I assure you it is worth the read.

I applaud Rich's previous post explaining what happened and his comments in hindsight. I was personally outraged when I received that quoted private message and for obvious reason. Select friends and I were quickly trying to pull together resources before the tragedy was even announced in order to make sure we could pull something off in time to help whatever financial burdens Kelli and her family may have encountered. Where such a fund took place was our last concern, and I was VERY happy to see fauna step up as well. Hell, two auctions are better than one right?! Bravo!

But when I realised human beings could even consider such horrible motives or make such disgusting accusations I snapped. Here I was trying to do something to help a friend and the very LAST thing I expected to see was an accusation like that. Frankly it made me very sick to my stomach. I blew a gasket.... first privately with Rich, and then I took my anger for Rich out on him publicly. I made my best efforts not to 'tip off' the inside details of what was really going on but I was simply blinded by my anger. To be PERFECTLY honest I didn't even think that clearly at first and went to tear Rich apart publicly for this......and quickly deleted the posts regarding it. Some of you with higher memberships could probably see where I deleted a few posts and asked a few members here who had quoted such text to delete theirs as well. I realised this was something Kelli did NOT need to hear at this time after speaking with those involved. I cannot express in words how blinded by anger I was. I'm still angry, very angry... But I'm choosing to deal with it rationally now.

In hindsight I also made the mistake sharing such a private message between me and Rich with those involved with the fund. Granted I thought they deserved to know since they were every bit a part of it as I was but I can see now it did nothing but cause more problems. Had I been able to think straight I could have possibly handled it differently, but no matter how many times I look back at it I simply cannot say whether or not I would have been able too in all honestly. In a time clouded by that much emotion logical thought simply does not exist.

Anyways, when arguing with Rich on other topics in days following that message I acted out of character, even for myself. For this I must apologize to all of you. You should not have seen me behave like this.....

All I can ask is your forgiveness and to understand my motivation for my extreme anger and "un-sportsman-like" conduct at that time. If I could turn back the clock I would have simply "sat" on the fiasco until appropriate. But like I said, no matter how many times I look back I really think with everything that was going on it was simply impossible not to be outraged at that type of accusation.

I'm glad to see Rich has taken a calm approach to this situation and explained it before I even had the chance. I also appreciate the removal of the "ban" but I must say I think my contributions in the future here will be somewhat limited.

"Chris's intentions were apparently honorable, but I just did not see that. "

Thank you Rich..... This is some of what I wanted from you in the beginning when we were discussing this matter in PM before it began spiralling downhill. I was met with an argumentative tone when you tried telling me you were simply passing on "what people thought" as if you were only the messenger. That is a good portion of what set me off afterwards.... I knew it was more than simply a relayed message. To me it was like adding insult to injury..... But it does not excuse how I behaved publicly. I felt justified to be so angry, but I was wrong to behave as I did. No matter how angry I was or how horrible the accusation, I should have handled it in a more mature fashion.

I will no longer be discussing this matter. I've said all I've needed to say and I do believe adding fuel to a fire that is already quite out of control is simply bad form. All I have to add to this is that I firmly believe fauna is a community and should not have to suffer for the mistakes and actions of a few. To Kelli, I hope I have not added to any of your pain in recent days, I've tried quite hard to do what I could for you and your family. I wish I could have done more....

And to Rich, you know I have told you that I firmly disagreed with your actions and choices recently. I simply agree to disagree at this point, I cannot allow myself to act in anger any longer. Things like this are hard to swallow.... I'm sure everyone will choose to deal with it in their own way. But on a side note, not all of your choices have been flawed.... I would not take one or two situations and think questionably of every decision you have made here. It's simply not logical. You've done alot of good things here for the members of fauna, and I'm sure you can do many more. Hindsight is 20/20. We can only live and learn....

Take care everyone, I'll see you around. I wish you all the very best....

 

[KelliH]

Thank you Chris, and Rich. I have also decided to take a break from Fauna. Maybe I will be back in the future, I don't know. I have a lot of things to take care of right now. And Chris, you did help, so much. SO, so much. Everyone did and will be receiving personal thank you's asap.

Now I have to get back to taking care of geckos. Damnit.

 

[Gekkonida]

I am super reluctant to post anything here, but out of respect for the truth and my friendship with some of the involved parties, I want to get all this out now so we don't have to relive it again later.

I was informed Tuesday by Kelli about the accident and I was crushed! The pain in her voice stayed with me. It was one of the worst phone calls I have ever been on. I consider Kelli a friend a very close friend, and I wanted to help any way I could. Later while in chat there were a number of people, Chris included, that wanted to do something, anything to help. The chat worked towards finding a way to help Kelli. Chris brought up the subject of running an auction. It was something I was already thinking about so I jumped in the middle and offered to put up a gecko as did many others. I also offered to help Chris any way I could. Emotions were running high and we all were trying to work through the shock in our own way. We decided an auction would be a great ideal. Never once was there ever a mention of where the auction would be held and quite honestly no one cared! We decided to wait until we received word from Robin and or Marcia that it was OK to launch the auction.

At some point in time Chris sprung into action and started working on the Hayden Fund. And let me be crystal clear with this point, Chris and I worked on the Hayden fund into the morning and not once ever was there anything talked about other than helping Kelli. We did not want her to have to deal with the burden of the expenses alone. We both were thinking along the same lines, we didn't want to see Kelli have to sell one animal. That was our goal, helping our friend. That is all we were talking and thinking about.

Later, when the auctions were in full swing Ryan Roth and I put up a website for auction. I contacted Rich to see if it were possible to get a years worth of free hosting for the auction. A few hours later (not exactly sure of the timing) I received a very angry message from Chris. To say he was beyond pissed would be way understating it! He was hurt and I could tell. Every response from him was mired in disbelief. He shared with me the pm between Rich and him and I to got upset. I was there working with him and I think I had a better perspective on his motivation than perhaps anyone. I was extremely distraught. Rich did pm me later with some concerns about the hosting. He shared some of the concerns he had about where the auction was located. I told him I hoped level heads would prevail, aiming the comment at both him and Chris. He at that point knew I had talked with Chris. Ultimately, Rich declined the hosting request. I was upset that politics were getting in the way of helping Kelli, but I did at least take time to look at Rich's side of the equation. At no point did I think Rich's decision was made out of anger. We even shared a moment to *sigh about the issues that were springing to life. I could tell the swelling of crap was already at toxic levels. That is also the point I learned there was the Hammack fund on Fauna. I thought two auctions would be better than one and once I looked at the support that it was receiving I was very glad it was there. The rest of the fireworks happened and I had no clue. I then received an email telling me Rich had made a direct comment to me about having fun with Robin as she was leaving fauna and headed for herpportal. I never responded and here is why. Pain cuts both ways, and one persons reality can be interpreted as lies to another person. I didn't want in the middle and still don't. I think motivations are being sorted out the right way by talking about them. I am glad that things are out now.

This message is probably all over the map. That week happened so fast and I talked with so many people I just don't have a grasp on the timeline as well as some others might. I think this whole thing is sad. It never needed to get to this point. I think it is out of nature to examine everyone's motives, but the problem is what good will it do at this point??? I know I was angry and I fell victim to my own perspectives as well. For that I am sorry. It is amazing how we are blinded by anger sometimes. I just know this, we did help Kelli and that is what is important. I hope this post helps in some small way(it is very hard to write). I hope all this pain can heal. I hope Kelli and others walk away knowing that great things did happen here and still can. I hope that Rich takes some time to recharge his batteries. I hope the Reptile community not just fauna or Kingsnake or HP or any other site, continues to wrap their arms around Kelli and her family. I hope this is the beginning of this industry showing each other that we all do really care about the things that truly matter. I hope that everyone can look themselves in the mirror at the end of the day and know that there motives and intentions were pure. Most of all I hope that you, Kelli, know how much you mean to me and others here! Just know that we would do anything for you! We love you!

Fred

 

[Monte]

Sooo, what's the deal? Sounds like we got things straightened out - now no one wants to come out and yak again? Come on - Fauna is a good thing.

It's so quiet around here . . . .