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Thoughts on reasonable time for snake life after purchase

Black Adder

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I know the title sounds a bit strange but not sure how to word it
Just looking for some feedback on a subject
I purchased a Mexican Lined Pine juvi from a major dealer on july 9th, she arrived seemingly healthy and proceeded to eat, defecate etc all quite normal
Kept just like my other 60+ snakes in same room, same temps as all the other pits, drys etc
This morning she was on her back dead, ate on Saturday as per normal
Now no idea why and probably not having a necropsy done at this stage
My only question is it reasonable to expect something like this after just 8 weeks after buying from a big dealer?
I have contacted him already and while polite, it was a very firm not interested in helping out response
So thoughts?
 
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Without a COD that can be directly linked to the seller, it does not matter if it was a week or a year. Even if a buyer thinks there is nothing they did incorrectly (and there may indeed be nothing done incorrectly), that does not exclude the possibility of something having happened in the post-delivery environment (seen, unseen, known, or unknown).

The reason for me is that these are living organisms and living organisms are not perfect and generally not so much immortal. I could, for example, receive a seemingly healthy by all measures parrot and it could have an aneurysm that kills it the next week. The same thing could happen to a tortoise a month after I send it out. We are not dealing with an immutable identity like a hunk of gold, so I generally only guarantee live arrival and the described condition. If the animal outlives the new owner and the owner's kids and then passes into the care of the grandchildren, that is pretty cool. If it dies a month after arrival, then that is simply among the risks we take.

I receive stuff that dies every now and then. I received a group of sulcatas that were five months older than I thought they were (by my incorrect initial assumption) and they had nearly zero growth to them (a generally bad sign). 75% of that group died. This was only a couple of weeks after arrival. I had many, many counterparts from my own breeders and those of other sources living in identical/parallel setups that were thriving. Does that mean the seller did something bad? I could not say so for a fact. Everybody tested clean on multiple occasions. Necropsy revealed nothing of value. Since they arrived alive and in the condition they were shown to me as being in, I just let it be and moved on.

I have never had a puppy die, but puppies die every day. I have never had a human baby die, but human babies die every day. From neonates to "geronates", every species dies and often not when we want them to or are ready for them to. Some fail early, some fail at end of conventionally "expected" lifespan, and plenty in between.

I have a difficult time placing an expectation on something that, as an individual organism in a much larger numerical set, has no obligation to adhere to whatever my expectations might be for survival. Following that, I would have a difficult time trying to obligate a human being to control such, as that is a variable which is often not within our control to begin with. We can do the best we can to nurture the prolonging or manifestation of potential, but the thread may be cut early despite our greatest efforts.

In your specific instance, about 56 days have passed. During those 56 days, you saw no indication of a problem. Unless you have overwhelming evidence, there is nothing to really lay at the feet of the seller. She was normal for nearly two months in your care and then no longer normal in your care in one punctuated swoop. Not in the seller's care. Not upon arrival to your care. As far as I am concerned, you have had an unfortunate experience, but it does not constitute a case and there is not really room for expectation surrounding it. Terms were fulfilled.
 
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This forum is not the correct avenue for this sort of topic matter. The thread is being moved....
 
Warning: And just a FYI, the topic needs to remain general in scope. If this evolves into a discussion about a particular seller, then the thread will become in violation of the rules concerning BOI topic matter, and therefore need to be locked. Without the subject's personal name in the topic line, it cannot be moved into the BOI, and also cannot remain outside of the BOI because of the person-centric discussion. So please consider this as fair warning.
 
Warning: And just a FYI, the topic needs to remain general in scope. If this evolves into a discussion about a particular seller, then the thread will become in violation of the rules concerning BOI topic matter, and therefore need to be locked. Without the subject's personal name in the topic line, it cannot be moved into the BOI, and also cannot remain outside of the BOI because of the person-centric discussion. So please consider this as fair warning.

Point very well taken !
Have edited initial post to remove any actual names, my bad!
I have zero intention of going to the BOI was just looking for opinions is all.
 
From a sellers point of view I offer 14 days. After that in my opinion it's either something congenital, or something the buyer did. That being said if you were to contact me, tell me what happened, suffered through me picking and sifting through your set up to make sure that's not it, I'd prolly work with you on a replacement.


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I really do not expect a replacement but just looking for others thoughts and experiences.
I have had good and bad
About 4 years ago i bought a texas indigo hatchling that rolled after approx 6 weeks, the seller was distraught and offered a 50% discount on a replacement from next years clutch. I took him up on this and still have this big gorgeous now 3 year old indigo girl.
I did not expect that but was obviously most welcome.
 
Your experience with the indigo is what we all would like to happen. That dealer went above and beyond what was required, or expected, and probably has a customer for life as well as many positive recommendations. We can't expect that from everyone and you have made it clear you do not expect it from this dealer.

As for what you should expect? You certainly shouldn't expect any animal to die within 2 months of receiving it. However, it does happen and it is something you should be prepared to accept. I would like to think any dealer would offer you something (free shipping on a replacement perhaps) if one of their animals died in that short of a time but I wouldn't say it is something you should expect him to do.

If I was that certain my husbandry was not an issue however I would think twice about working with the seller a second time. If I got an I'm really sorry but there is nothing I can do response I'd chalk it up to bad luck and look elsewhere in the future. I don't fault the dealer at all in the death of the animal but as far as I am concerned I wouldn't take another chance on another one of his animals.

As David says, he has his TOS but he is not opposed to working with someone if the individual case warrants it.
 
Your experience with the indigo is what we all would like to happen. That dealer went above and beyond what was required, or expected, and probably has a customer for life as well as many positive recommendations. We can't expect that from everyone and you have made it clear you do not expect it from this dealer.

As for what you should expect? You certainly shouldn't expect any animal to die within 2 months of receiving it. However, it does happen and it is something you should be prepared to accept. I would like to think any dealer would offer you something (free shipping on a replacement perhaps) if one of their animals died in that short of a time but I wouldn't say it is something you should expect him to do.

If I was that certain my husbandry was not an issue however I would think twice about working with the seller a second time. If I got an I'm really sorry but there is nothing I can do response I'd chalk it up to bad luck and look elsewhere in the future. I don't fault the dealer at all in the death of the animal but as far as I am concerned I wouldn't take another chance on another one of his animals.

As David says, he has his TOS but he is not opposed to working with someone if the individual case warrants it.

Exactly Steve
It is chalked up as "stuff happens", very sad all the same
I was really just looking to see what others had experienced, their thoughts and expectations etc
And yes the indigo dealer has since had a number of recommendations from myself to new buyers and another sale to myself last year!
 
As far as sellers go, I only hold them to live arrival. As far as anyone who buys from me, I would certainly offer a healthy discount on a replacement animal even though it's not clear what could have happened. Especially, if it's someone with an existing collection who I know is offering good husbandry, I'd probably do replacement for shipping costs to be honest.
 
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