Bad Guy Tim Koppenhofer Special K Reptiles

[DAND]

If your looking for e-mails the only e-mails that were sent was in Jan over the Dispalys cases.

Are these e-mails just what you sent to him or do you have any response(s) from Tim to back up your claim(s)?

 

[Adam Kirk]

I assume just what he sent since he said Tim never responded to them and claims to have not gotten the email.

 

[Danielsherp]

I don't understand how anyone can justify that it is ok to sell an animal that isn't what it's supposed to be? If that animal was sold off my table I'd take care of it as soon as possible no questions asked. He admitted he made the mistake of selling a missexed animal. Fine no hard feelings but your telling me it's my fault that I paid a individual cash for animal that wasn't worth 1/2 the value of the right animal I was supposed to purchase? I don't understand how it could possibly be my fault for his animal being missexed. Everyone makes mistakes ..... ( I made one at Tinley) but he should have never said he would take care of it if he wouldn't. He did tell me $275 credit because he offered a mojave female priced at $325 if I would pay the $50 difference. SO he knew he agreed to give me credit. Then he went back on his word at Tinley. ANY other well known reptile breeder would have tooken care of this issue no problem. Were talking about $275? All I'm saying is with all the other breeders out there why purchase from this guy when you can't even settle a $275 mistake you made.
I'm not really worried about the $275 anymore. It's more of the principle of the matter. There are so many other breeders out there that are willing to stand behind there animals this guy didn't FOR ME.

I have already called several of my friends who's table was around Tim's and apologized to them for the unprofessional scene I caused in front of there tables. I just don't take too lightly someone taking money from me and then trying to make a mochary out of me. I have said what I needed to say to Tim and as far as I'm concerned I have nothing else to say to him. I told him at Tinley I was going to make this post on the boi and several other forums. So he is aware of it.

Daniel Allison

 

[chongorojo]

Why is it the sex is only guaranteed when you buy it or for the week after, feels scamish to me to do business that way? Either you know ho to sex or yu don't..? Either way If he paid for a female Tim needs to either refund him or get him a female... but no guarantee that what you paid for is what your getting??? ....if that's the way your going to do business then get out while the gettings good... as there will be plenty of breeders that will take care of their customers, even after a mistake... I don't care if Tim supplied ALL my animals and was my best friend if he gave the guy a het hypo MALE... then it needs fixed.

 

[TheVipersHouse]

If your looking for e-mails the only e-mails that were sent was in Jan over the Dispalys cases. Everything else was face to face. Yes I sure did have some choice words with Tim. IF your going to take my money sell me a missexed animal ,jerk me around for a year and then tell me your not going to do what you said you were then yes I was pissed. I told him he was an asshole and tried to walk away because It was getting ugly very fast. I then turned and told him "if you weren't so old I would whoop your ass". Plain and simple. If someone comes up and takes $275 from me I would do the same. I work hard for my money and where I come from a man is only as good as his word. SO if any of you think that its ok for someone to sell a misexed animal and not make it right after you said you would then it
's just as sad as I thought. Should I have said what I said to Tim. Probably not. Tim if you read this "I apologize" BUT it still doesn't exclude the fact you know what our deal was and you didn't hold your end up.


Daniel Allison

sometimes mis-sexing the animals can be a mistake , i have seen it many of times . but the fact remains you waited 3 months before having it sexed .. the fault of not knowing for sure after 2 weeks of owning the animal belongs to you .. 3 months is way to long ..

 

[Alex G]

sometimes mis-sexing the animals can be a mistake , i have seen it many of times . but the fact remains you waited 3 months before having it sexed .. the fault of not knowing for sure after 2 weeks of owning the animal belongs to you .. 3 months is way to long ..

It's my understanding that this animal was an adult when purchased... it should've been fairly easy for someone experienced in ball pythons to sex it as an adult.

 

[DAND]

If I purchased an animal from someone who has the reputation that Tim does then I would expect the animal to be sexed correctly.

sometimes mis-sexing the animals can be a mistake , i have seen it many of times . but the fact remains you waited 3 months before having it sexed .. the fault of not knowing for sure after 2 weeks of owning the animal belongs to you .. 3 months is way to long ..

I'm sorry but the above sounds like you are saying it's okay to misrepresent an animal's sex be it by mistake or on purpose as long as it is not found out within two weeks of purchase and that no one should be taken for their word regardless of their reputation.

 

[Amelanistic Orca]

Scary thought... Man o man; I'm married to each snake out my door...

 

[bullies&balls]

EXACTLY

DAND hit the nail onthe head. Saying is sounds like your ok his misrepresentation of the animal. This is NOT about the BUYERS protocol. The buyer may NOT quarentine his animals. He may NOT keep them in racks.
Point is he purchased a FEMALE !!!! Not a MALE !!! Enough of your stupid remarks about 3 months is way to long crap. Get real, you sell someone an animal and it isn't what it should be you will hear about either in a day ,week month or even a freekin year.

 

[Izoid]

The bottom line here is that NO proof of a mis sexed animal has been provided to anyone. There are no emsils, simply one mans word thst any of this even happened.

Even if it did happen as you claim, an offer to make it right was presented to you and you refused (mojave). You then wait for another year before bringing it up again. All thid after selling the snake on your own for $30?

This all sounds very convenient for you...no snske...no emails...no proof of anything. Wait...I takr thst back...you do have proof that you cussed him out and threatened him in front of several people.

 

[TheVipersHouse]

If I purchased an animal from someone who has the reputation that Tim does then I would expect the animal to be sexed correctly.



I'm sorry but the above sounds like you are saying it's okay to misrepresent an animal's sex be it by mistake or on purpose as long as it is not found out within two weeks of purchase and that no one should be taken for their word regardless of their reputation.

No im saying that mistakes Happen even to the best of us , and it should be treated as a mistake . I see nothing intentional about it , if it was an intentional sale then alot more people would be saying the same thing so he apparently knows how to sex them . but even i have had animals that poped and probed and it was a up in the air call . hell just this past weekend i had a boa that was traded to me as a female turned out to be a male , and i even had a top boa person sex it at a show and he said 1 sided probed 1 sex and the other side probed the other sex and it was a guess call .

it can happen with any animal ..

but someone who buys the animal should take on their own responsibility to have it double checked regardless of what the seller had it as ..


when i found out the boa was not what it was supposed to be, it was my own fault for taking the word of the person and i didnt check until i noticed no breeding going on with a proven male , and it made me think " hey i forgot to double check it " so i did and it wasnt what it was traded as . and THATS MY FAULT . and i didnt notice for a couple months after everything was done and said . So i cant run back to the person saying hey you ripped me off !!!! cause it was MY RESPONSIBILITY to make sure WHEN I GOT IT it was what he said it was so if there was a problem it could have been handled right away .


and if your face to face buying something then you should say hey double check the snake for me to make sure . or buy it and have someone else check it out . ( 95% of the breeders at a show will be happy to check it for you if you ask them ) .

but if he came to me with the attitude at a show like Rainbowboaman said was heard from the OP 2 tables away making threats , he wouldnt get the time of day from me period ...

you can take it how you want to just my opinion ...

 

[Alex G]

No im saying that mistakes Happen even to the best of us , and it should be treated as a mistake . I see nothing intentional about it , if it was an intentional sale then alot more people would be saying the same thing so he apparently knows how to sex them . but even i have had animals that poped and probed and it was a up in the air call . hell just this past weekend i had a boa that was traded to me as a female turned out to be a male , and i even had a top boa person sex it at a show and he said 1 sided probed 1 sex and the other side probed the other sex and it was a guess call .

it can happen with any animal ..

but someone who buys the animal should take on their own responsibility to have it double checked regardless of what the seller had it as ..


when i found out the boa was not what it was supposed to be, it was my own fault for taking the word of the person and i didnt check until i noticed no breeding going on with a proven male , and it made me think " hey i forgot to double check it " so i did and it wasnt what it was traded as . and THATS MY FAULT . and i didnt notice for a couple months after everything was done and said . So i cant run back to the person saying hey you ripped me off !!!! cause it was MY RESPONSIBILITY to make sure WHEN I GOT IT it was what he said it was so if there was a problem it could have been handled right away .


and if your face to face buying something then you should say hey double check the snake for me to make sure . or buy it and have someone else check it out . ( 95% of the breeders at a show will be happy to check it for you if you ask them ) .

but if he came to me with the attitude at a show like Rainbowboaman said was heard from the OP 2 tables away making threats , he wouldnt get the time of day from me period ...

you can take it how you want to just my opinion ...

So you bought a supposedly proven male that turned out to be (correct me if I'm wrong) a female? Buddy it sounds like you need to start your own bad guy thread! Misidentifying the sex is one thing, but selling something as proven male or female when it's the entirely wrong sex is another entirely.

 

[ShadowAceD]

Aside from the fact that this will remian hearsay until there is proof, which evidently there isn't, I am actually having a hard time understanding why the OP did not take the original deal that was offered to him.

He was going to give you full credit for what you paid for the animal. That was how much money you were out for it. That was all good and well until you saw an animal you wanted, but refused to pay the 50.00 USD difference. That makes no sense to me.

While I can understand the frustration of getting an inaccurately sexed animal, I do know that many breeders, when the mistake is discovered that quickly, will just offer back the price you paid for them either in cash refund or credit. I do not know of many that will give you a more expensive animal of another morph to make up for it. Maybe that is just me. I don't know.

What I am getting at here was there was an attempt to fix the situation. You declined it. Then you got upset when it snow balled from there.

 

[TheVipersHouse]

So you bought a supposedly proven male that turned out to be (correct me if I'm wrong) a female? Buddy it sounds like you need to start your own bad guy thread! Misidentifying the sex is one thing, but selling something as proven male or female when it's the entirely wrong sex is another entirely.

nope it was supposed to be female and turned out to be a male . and it was my fault cause i didnt check it for a couple months instead of checking it right away when i got it like i should have .....

 

[TheVipersHouse]

clicked post to fast

(cont.)
i got a weird feeling and
i found out something was wrong when my proven albino male wasnt trying to breed it , just after his plugs came out .. so then i sexed it to find out it wasnt what it was supposed to be .

but again it comes down to regardless it was all my fault cause i didnt do what i should have and checked it right away after receiving it . had i done so i could have contacted the guy and said hey theres a problem .

 

[ShadowAceD]

And, Shawn, I seriously disagree with you.

While, yeah, you should confirm the gender of the animal yourself when you recieve it, it is not your fault if the animal ends up being the wrong gender. Not even if you find out months or years later. It is the seller's fault. I do not really comprehend you thinking it is all your fault, but if you want to take some of the blame, okay, I cannot stop you from doing that.

Most breeders have TOS that cover missexed animals. I know I do.

In this particular case though, I am not sure what the OP is trying to get out of this. It seems to me he was given an option to fix the situation which, to me, seemed reasonable, but he refused it. He wanted another animal, as he said, but did not want to pay the gap in difference between the two. He also may have been really aggressive about it, which is not generally something that should be done by buyer or seller.

While it may be more obvious that the buyer should hold himself in a certain way when doing business, customers really should do the same. Being angry is understandable, lashing out a bit is understandable, physically threatening someone's well being is not. Generally, this forces the other individual into a defensive stance and it leads to an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object.

Obviously, that can only end in a deadlock.

 

[Danielsherp]

The bottom line here is that NO proof of a mis sexed animal has been provided to anyone. There are no emsils, simply one mans word thst any of this even happened.

Even if it did happen as you claim, an offer to make it right was presented to you and you refused (mojave). You then wait for another year before bringing it up again. All thid after selling the snake on your own for $30?

This all sounds very convenient for you...no snske...no emails...no proof of anything. Wait...I takr thst back...you do have proof that you cussed him out and threatened him in front of several people.

Your right so..... I am going to cuss him out in the middle of a show because this never happened, because there's no proof... GET REAL. I didn't threaten him when I say "IF YOU WERE NOT THAT OLD I would. Which IMPLY'S I WOULDN"T BECAUSE HE IS OLD". I try to respect my elders to a point.
Which I have already apologized for it was out of control and I lost my cool.

As far as the offer.. The guy sold me a misexed animal I didn't want to spend anymore money with him after he wouldn't refund the animal. including the fact he NEVER has anything I want which is also why it took over a year. That and the fact he stopped coming to the S.C shows after the incident in January.

As far as proof? Everything was done face to face like I said. As far as the snake? Why would I even want to keep that around to feed and take up cage space? Hell if it was such a big deal to hold on to the snake why didn't he take it back when it was offered to him?


If you really think that it is ok to sell a misexed animal and say tough luck to your customer when there not happy then that is pitiful. You can't do that it's not fair. It's the seller''s responsibility to well represent the animal and know there selling the correct animal. IT'S NOT THE BUYERS FAULT because the label says FEMALE.

 

[Danielsherp]

No im saying that mistakes Happen even to the best of us , and it should be treated as a mistake . I see nothing intentional about it , if it was an intentional sale then alot more people would be saying the same thing so he apparently knows how to sex them . but even i have had animals that poped and probed and it was a up in the air call . hell just this past weekend i had a boa that was traded to me as a female turned out to be a male , and i even had a top boa person sex it at a show and he said 1 sided probed 1 sex and the other side probed the other sex and it was a guess call .

it can happen with any animal ..

but someone who buys the animal should take on their own responsibility to have it double checked regardless of what the seller had it as ..


when i found out the boa was not what it was supposed to be, it was my own fault for taking the word of the person and i didnt check until i noticed no breeding going on with a proven male , and it made me think " hey i forgot to double check it " so i did and it wasnt what it was traded as . and THATS MY FAULT . and i didnt notice for a couple months after everything was done and said . So i cant run back to the person saying hey you ripped me off !!!! cause it was MY RESPONSIBILITY to make sure WHEN I GOT IT it was what he said it was so if there was a problem it could have been handled right away .


and if your face to face buying something then you should say hey double check the snake for me to make sure . or buy it and have someone else check it out . ( 95% of the breeders at a show will be happy to check it for you if you ask them ) .

but if he came to me with the attitude at a show like Rainbowboaman said was heard from the OP 2 tables away making threats , he wouldnt get the time of day from me period ...

you can take it how you want to just my opinion ...

No no no...... We had talked on friday and saturday as he was my best buddy.... When he denied he owed me money then snatched his pants up,raised his voice and started throwing his hands in the air.... Then I got the attitude......


Well since you think it's Ok to sell missexed animals why should we even put the sex's on the price? Here is a het pied for one price , you buy it I'll ship it to you . you sex it when it when you get it, b/c sex shouldn't matter and then don't call me when it's not the sex you want. ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Your telling me if I paid $70,000 for a banana male and I find out it's a female 3 months later and I can buy females for 15k that its ok because I should have sexed the animal are you serious? I just lost $55,000 because I should have sexed the animal...... COME ON!

 

[TheVipersHouse]

And, Shawn, I seriously disagree with you.

While, yeah, you should confirm the gender of the animal yourself when you recieve it, it is not your fault if the animal ends up being the wrong gender. Not even if you find out months or years later. It is the seller's fault. I do not really comprehend you thinking it is all your fault, but if you want to take some of the blame, okay, I cannot stop you from doing that.

Most breeders have TOS that cover missexed animals. I know I do.

In this particular case though, I am not sure what the OP is trying to get out of this. It seems to me he was given an option to fix the situation which, to me, seemed reasonable, but he refused it. He wanted another animal, as he said, but did not want to pay the gap in difference between the two. He also may have been really aggressive about it, which is not generally something that should be done by buyer or seller.

While it may be more obvious that the buyer should hold himself in a certain way when doing business, customers really should do the same. Being angry is understandable, lashing out a bit is understandable, physically threatening someone's well being is not. Generally, this forces the other individual into a defensive stance and it leads to an unstoppable force meeting an immovable object.

Obviously, that can only end in a deadlock.

thats fine , agree disagree its totally up to the reader .
i guarantee the health and sex of my snakes as well . but mistakes do and can happen nobody is immune to it , cause nobodys that perfect .

my problem is buyers need to take responsibility for the purchase of the animal as well . 9x out of 10 when i buy something i always double check it . sometimes i do get lazy and dont .
but regardless if they know what they want to buy and they buy it , they also need to double check the seller ( no matter who it is and what their reputation is ) and if they dont their only asking for troubles down the road .. which could have all been solved or avoided if they did double check .

 

[Danielsherp]

Aside from the fact that this will remian hearsay until there is proof, which evidently there isn't, I am actually having a hard time understanding why the OP did not take the original deal that was offered to him.

He was going to give you full credit for what you paid for the animal. That was how much money you were out for it. That was all good and well until you saw an animal you wanted, but refused to pay the 50.00 USD difference. That makes no sense to me.

While I can understand the frustration of getting an inaccurately sexed animal, I do know that many breeders, when the mistake is discovered that quickly, will just offer back the price you paid for them either in cash refund or credit. I do not know of many that will give you a more expensive animal of another morph to make up for it. Maybe that is just me. I don't know.

What I am getting at here was there was an attempt to fix the situation. You declined it. Then you got upset when it snow balled from there.

Let me explain the whole mojave offer. On Saturday morning at the show we both vended. He then told me he didn't want the animal back that we would work it out at the end of the show so he could see how he did. At the end of the show he told me he had a bad show and didnt have the cash to pay me the refund so he said he would give me credit. He didn't have anything on his table that I would even consider taking home. NOW trying to end the deal and frustrated about not getting my refund back I attempted to try to get something to resale to recoupe my money. I then offered the mojave female as a deal he said pay the $50. I then realized I could buy a mojave female for $250 ANYWHERE. So he then said with his suggestion "we don't have to do it today I will be in Columbia in November" (It was october) I said fine. He then didn't show up for the columbia show. I then saw him again in Jan at the charlotte show he declined my e-mails I scoped his table looking for something we had a talk about mystics and potions. He didn't have anything on the table that I wanted so I waited till there was something I could have at least used.



Not only in this process did I lose my money and a snake but I also lost production from that year. If it would have been a female i probably could have got a clutch of eggs. BUT STILL who cares about the clutch of eggs it's not the point. the point is that the animal was missexed. I have worked with him and let him dodge me for a year and he still doesn't care. What else am I supposed to do?