Bad Guy "Tim"/"Mike"/"xiao zhang" - AVOID

[tortfanatic]

Seller "Tim" whose name on the Fedex shipment was "Miike zhang" from Pomona, CA and whose PayPal name is "xiao zhang" at email [email protected] cannot be trusted.

He sold me a leopard tortoise that he repeatedly claimed before and after sale was healthy. The animal showed up sick with a respiratory infection and kidney failure. The poor thing couldn't open her eyes or breathe well and the vet finally put her down after five days of treatment with no improvement, treatment from a zoological veterinarian who took great care with her.

His response to her health status before the transaction:

6/1/14:

She's blong to one of my friend
he has her since she was a baby
No healthy issue

Tim

She shipping overnight on the 5th via Fedex from City of Industry, CA at 4:43pm on the 5th and and I met the driver at the door at 11:06am on the 6th.
His response after my health inquiry email sent at 11:56am that morning after she obviously arrived sick:

6/6/14:

Just back town This leopard tortoise is healthy but she's very shy
she always the first one walk out from the hers home
she may need more time to know the new environment and new house

Thanks
Tim

After two days of monitoring and providing care for the tortoise I took her to the local vet school's zoological veterinarian. There were no more responses from Tim/Miike/Xiao after I told him the veterinarian had diagnosed kidney failure on top of the respiratory infection, none of which she could have contacted in shipment.

 

[bcr229]

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=453000

 

[tortfanatic]

Thanks Melinda, too bad I didn't see it earlier. This guys uses so many names it's not easy to make the connection.

The frustrating part is that the sites let him post ads and paypal takes payments with such a bad track record. I submitted a dispute with Paypal which was pretty quickly closed with no documentation. I can provide vet documentation on the animal's poor health, but Paypal closed it because this guy responded with "the animal is healthy, but shy".

Aside from this lying thief I will never use Paypal for a large transaction ever again.

 

[predators]

This guy sent me a 12 lot of Sulcatta Tortoise and 10 of the 12 had severly lopsided or deformed shells. They were clearly the runts of the litter and the culls. I called him, emailed him and he gave me the most ridiculous excuse. " I said they didnt have extra scutes" Well ya they dont have extra scutes but, there shells are so deformed I get dizzy just looking at them. Thats like him saying " I told you they dont have 3 eye balls" That is true they dont have 3 eye balls but,What does it matter if the rest of the tortoise is a mess.. In anycase, I realized this guy was looney so I filed a paypal dispute told paypal I had pictures offered to send them back if he sent a label and I somehow lost the dispute with paypal not even asking for documentation or pictures. How can this guy possibley win these disputes and these are two we actually know about there must be many more. Also, he said he would refund me if I paid the shipping back and he would not credit the shipping to me. So basically I would lose $180 just to ship the tortoises back and forth which were obviously b grade tortoises when shipped. Even if I had accepted this offer there is no way I was going to trust this guy to refund my money. I can almost guarantee he would have just kept my money and I would have had to file a paypal dispute and may have lost..What a joke this guy is..

 

[hhmoore]

PayPal doesn't cover jack when it comes to live animal shipments. About the only way you'll win a claim is for non-delivery. (Occasionally, somebody will get lucky; but it isn't the norm)

 

[predators]

PayPal doesn't cover jack when it comes to live animal shipments. About the only way you'll win a claim is for non-delivery. (Occasionally, somebody will get lucky; but it isn't the norm)

That's so weird because I have had two people dispute paypal charges in the last year or so. One the person claimed they received a dead chameleon. I asked for a picture and he never provided one.. The other was for someone claiming they received the wrong animal. He also never sent pics and I offered to send a label to ship it back but he just filed a dispute instead. In both instances I lost. I am so hesitant to accept paypal payments because I really think its in the buyers favor and they are so easy to dispute but, when I do it for a valid reason I get denied.. I know paypal says they do not cover animals but isn't that for the seller as well..

 

[Big Time Reptiles]

This guy sent me a 12 lot of Sulcatta Tortoise and 10 of the 12 had severly lopsided or deformed shells. They were clearly the runts of the litter and the culls. I called him, emailed him and he gave me the most ridiculous excuse. " I said they didnt have extra scutes" Well ya they dont have extra scutes but, there shells are so deformed I get dizzy just looking at them. Thats like him saying " I told you they dont have 3 eye balls" That is true they dont have 3 eye balls but,What does it matter if the rest of the tortoise is a mess.. In anycase, I realized this guy was looney so I filed a paypal dispute told paypal I had pictures offered to send them back if he sent a label and I somehow lost the dispute with paypal not even asking for documentation or pictures. How can this guy possibley win these disputes and these are two we actually know about there must be many more. Also, he said he would refund me if I paid the shipping back and he would not credit the shipping to me. So basically I would lose $180 just to ship the tortoises back and forth which were obviously b grade tortoises when shipped. Even if I had accepted this offer there is no way I was going to trust this guy to refund my money. I can almost guarantee he would have just kept my money and I would have had to file a paypal dispute and may have lost..What a joke this guy is..

He strikes again!

Sorry you're having to go through this Dan, I feel especially sorry for the little tortoises.

Surely the last site allowing him to advertise, will put a stop to it eventually, I'm not saying it's the websites fault, it's NOT, but as long as he's able to advertise, he'll continue to find others to sell his sick, and or deformed critters to.

GOOD LUCK Dan!

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

 

[tortfanatic]

Reply from Kingsnake to my IC3 filing

FYI, here's my reply from Kingsnake to my IC3 filing:

Your complaint and subsequent FBI report have been placed in our files and we cannot discuss an advertisers account with anyone but legal authorities.

At this point we must defer to the FBI as we are not a law enforcement office and are not equipped to chase down vendor complaints and suspected internet fraud.

We are here in a strictly unbiased third party role. Should your claims against the vendor be proven to have merit by the appropriate authorities, our records can be accessed by you for any subsequent legal action that may ensue.

We are doing an internal investigation. However, having said that, we do have a three-strikes rule that states; should a vendor at any time have three independent, unresolved complaints against them, their account will be
suspended immediately until proof can be given that all complaints have been resolved to the customers satisfaction.

I have no idea whether my complaint was the first on this seller or not, but if anyone else has a complaint they are willing to file to tip this over the edge with Kingsnake then please do so.

 

[Big Time Reptiles]

I have no idea whether my complaint was the first on this seller or not, but if anyone else has a complaint they are willing to file to tip this over the edge with Kingsnake then please do so.

James,
If I'm not mistaken, Robert "Tileslave", Dan "Predators" and you, would be his 3 strikes. Don't know if there has been any others. You'd think there would be others, as busy as he has been.

We'll see!

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

 

[predators]

FYI, here's my reply from Kingsnake to my IC3 filing:

Your complaint and subsequent FBI report have been placed in our files and we cannot discuss an advertisers account with anyone but legal authorities.

At this point we must defer to the FBI as we are not a law enforcement office and are not equipped to chase down vendor complaints and suspected internet fraud.

We are here in a strictly unbiased third party role. Should your claims against the vendor be proven to have merit by the appropriate authorities, our records can be accessed by you for any subsequent legal action that may ensue.

We are doing an internal investigation. However, having said that, we do have a three-strikes rule that states; should a vendor at any time have three independent, unresolved complaints against them, their account will be
suspended immediately until proof can be given that all complaints have been resolved to the customers satisfaction.

I have no idea whether my complaint was the first on this seller or not, but if anyone else has a complaint they are willing to file to tip this over the edge with Kingsnake then please do so.

James good work. I am happy you took the time to do this. Please send me a link to file on how to file a complaint with kingsnake also and I will do it right away. Thanks-

 

[tortfanatic]

First I filed a complaint with their Classified Abuse: http://market.kingsnake.com/complaint.php

In response I received the following message:

Thank you for contacting our abuse department.

Please note that due to federal and state privacy laws we can neither reply
to your complaint specifically or release information about users or
accounts. We can and will release this information to the proper authorities
upon their request.

In order for your complaint to be considered a formal complaint against an
individual or a business, we require that you file a complaint at the
Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) located at http://www.ic3.gov/.

Once you have completed filing a complaint there, they will e-mail you an
username and password. Please forward this to us and we will begin an
internal investigation of your complaint.

Please be aware that we take internet fraud seriously and so does IC3.
Please help us control fraud and theft on our site and help protect yourself
and others.

If you reply, please include this email in its entirety in your reply for
tracking purposes.

 

[Big Time Reptiles]

I'm not a betting man, but I'm willing to bet this is him, with yet another email address, advertising on a website that has banned him because of his alias's, and sales tactics.


sulcata tortoise for sale Name: mike Posted: 5/18/2014 Email: [email protected] Location: pomona CB sulcata hatching is ready for the new home
They are eating lettuce mazuri tortoise diet and mix green
male & female are available
$60 /ea
I can ship
ship by fedex priority overnight
I take paypal
For the shipping quote email me with your zip code

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

 

[j_dunlavy]

The frustrating part is that the sites let him post ads and paypal takes payments with such a bad track record. I submitted a dispute with Paypal which was pretty quickly closed with no documentation. I can provide vet documentation on the animal's poor health, but Paypal closed it because this guy responded with "the animal is healthy, but shy".

Aside from this lying thief I will never use Paypal for a large transaction ever again.

I am not sure how paypal disputes are handled, as I have never had one, but if it was me I would try to get the dispute re-opened; Use the documentation from the vet and advise paypal that the transaction was for a live animal that was "not as described," (healthy).
It is worth a try.

 

[tortfanatic]

Lynn, I bet you are right, as Mike is one of his known aliases.

Jon, I did try to get it re-opened, but they they played the we don't handle disputes for live animals card.

 

[j_dunlavy]

Jon, I did try to get it re-opened, but they they played the we don't handle disputes for live animals card.

That's a shame.
Perhaps you can push the angle that he is defrauding people and using paypal's policies against the buyer? You know, try to get his acct suspended or something.
Maybe you could try to push it through your credit card company if PP was drawing from that?
Just a couple ideas, either way it is a crappy situation.

Really sorry about your tortoise; I hope you can recoup your losses.

 

[predators]

Thats crazy though becasue as I mentioned eariler as a seller I lost a dispute. They played the same card to me we do not handle live animal disputes... It seems they have a double standard for both buyer and seller.

 

[Big Time Reptiles]

I realize this won't help anyone, or the tortoise that suffered, but it may help someone in the future.

Tim/Mike/Xiao or what ever his name is, has either sold all the sick and/or deformed critters he had, or he's finally been banned, I have not seen a single ad of his on any website he did frequent, in about a week, HALLELUJAH!!

Lynn Peterson
Big Time Reptiles

 

[tortfanatic]

That's a great thought, but I fear he's either laying low for the timing being or selling under another name. Given how many names he already uses, it's much more likely that he's picked another alias than "out of the business". Hopefully we can spot him before that happens. Of course, we're looking in the tortoise forums, it's probably best to look for snakes in the snake forum...

 

[deadheadvet]

I'm a little late to the party on this thread, but this is more for any new person looking to buy an animal for the first time. Always be careful buying from someone who is posting for the first time or who just joined recently(LOOK AT THE JOIN DATE). That is a major red flag. Could be a scam or someone looking to pull a fast one. Those who are legitimate breeders have been on this site for years. Look who you are buying from. Spend a little more, and go with someone who has been doing this for a while. Tough lessons to learn out there.