janeothejungle
Ophidian Goddess
Hello All,
So herein I will be posting the short version of the story to follow, along with a breakdown of the correspondence of the almost transaction ( I can post the original emails, if need be). Todd was set to purchase 2 female lessers that I had listed on KS. The deal went forth despite some red flags that made me wonder. Ultimately I agreed to a deal via email for him to send me the money and I would ship him the girls. During the last few conversations via email I began to feel uneasy but felt that I had committed to the deal so I went along. After more than one insistence that I ship on a specific day, which would have been before the money cleared, I no longer felt right about the deal and sent an email to Todd stating that I was backing out of the deal and that I was sorry for the inconvenience. No money or snakes ever changed hands, but I could not in good conscience ship my girls to him when everything about the deal seemed slightly too shady.
----------------------
On January 12th I received an email from Mr. Smith offering me $1400 for two female 07 lesser platinum BP's that I had listed on KS for $900 each.
On January 13th at 9am - I responded that $1400 was a bit low since they were already below market value, but that I would split the difference and go $1600 for the two.
On January 13th at 11am - Todd responds with an email and asks what they currently weigh and what bloodline they are.
About 15 minutes later - I respond with their birthdate, hatch weights and current weights and I also give him the lineage of my sire and state that RDR is the only lesser bloodline I'm aware of. I also offer pics of both sire and grandsire to show the lightness of the line.
Jan 13th at 1:30pm - Todd states that he would like the pics of the sire and grandsire.
I send the email with the pics within an hour or so.
Jan 13th at 5:13pm - Todd states that he only has the funds for his original offer and if I change my mind I should get in touch.
Three minutes later I get another email about a ghost male he has that he is willing to offer in partial trade.
Jan 13th at 11pm - I politely inform Todd that I am not really looking for trades. I also wish him luck on his breeding season.
*Side Note - At this point I had pretty much written him off and was a bit uncomfortable at how the exchange had gone, yet todd was always polite so I wrote my annoyance off and let the whole thing go.*
Mon Jan 14th at 4pm - I get another email from todd saying he has spoken to his 'partner' and worked out a way to pay the original $1600. He asks where the funds should be sent.
On Jan 14th at 5:45 - I reply with the address he can paypal, I state that once the funds clear we can work out shipping, someone must be home to sign for the package, I only ship fedex overnight, etc.
On Jan 14th at 6:30 - Todd replies that his 'partner' is going to mail a check for his 'portion' and could I send the mailing address as well as pictures of the girls.
At 7pm - I reply with my mailing address and attach pics, as requested.
On Jan 14th, (Monday) At 7:20pm - Todd responds that his partner (and here he names someone I have never heard of) will be sending me $800 and he (Todd) will paypal me the other $800 at the end of the week. He then states that he would like them shipped on the 17th, as he will be home on the 18th.
*Side Note - At this point I am uncomfortable that a silent 'partner' has magically appeared to save the day, but again, Todd is very polite and I feel as if I have already committed to see the deal through. I am also a little surprised that he wants them shipped so quickly when no money has changed hands.*
Jan 14th, at 7:45 - I respond that I will keep an eye on the mail, and again state that I will NOT ship until the funds have cleared. I state that if the funds arrive rapidly and clear it is an option, but more than likely we needed to look at next week. I also state that I prefer to ship monday - wed so there is less chance of a package getting hung up over the weekend.
Monday Jan 14th at 8:15pm - Todd responds that he works during the week and the only day he is available to receive is the 18th. He says he has had no problems with fedex on fridays and the package is only going a couple hundred miles. He states that XXX (his partner) will mail the check tomorrow and he, todd, will pay at the end of the week as discussed previously.
* Side Note - I spend a sleepless night worrying about how this has gone, but I have always been a woman of my word and feel obligated to go through with it against my gut instinct. I keep telling myself that I don't have to do anything until the money shows, but at this point I am not comfortable with Todd and the way he has responded to the last few emails.*
Tues, Jan 15th at 8am - I send Todd another email stating again that I will not ship until the funds clear and that if he insists on shipping for friday delivery I will not be responsible for the package. As long as he is clear about that, I agree to the deal.
At 10:30am - Todd responds that it works for him and he will check back at the end of the week to pay his portion.
*Side Note - At this point I have serious misgivings and go back and forth in my mind over what the right thing to do is. And whether I can go through with it. I am not worried about the money, but I have serious misgivings about Todd and do not really want my girls going to him. I have the bright idea of doing a search here on the BOI, thinking that if he has a bunch of good guy threads, I will at least feel better about the deal. Alas, there is one thread from 4 years ago and it is not encouraging. I ultimately decide I cannot go through with the deal.*
Tues, jan 15th at noon - I send Todd an email stating that I am sincerely sorry for the inconvenience, but that I am backing out of the deal due to the number of discrepancies. I state that if his partner has already mailed the check, I will be happy to return it via overnight as soon as it shows up. I apologize several times for dragging the deal out. I state that the deal has not felt right from the beginning.
Tues, jan 15th at 7:30pm - Todd send me an email stating that he see's my concern on the shipping date and that he had been looking at the wrong week. What he meant to say was he wanted them shipped on the 24th. He says if that date works, I should just let him know and we can re-establish the deal. He apologizes for the confusion.
Jan 15th at 8:15pm - Todd sends a virtually identical email to the one above but adds that he "would still like to purcahse thet two females and can send the funds as agreed upon earlier."
On Jan 15th at 9pm - I respond to Todd that my decision stands and that I am not comfortable selling to him. I state again that there are too many questions surrounding the deal and apologize again for wasting his time.
I then post a query on BP.net asking for opinions on how others would have dealt with the situation (I did not list names or any identifying factors). I felt guilty for breaking the deal, but relieved that the girls were not going to someone I did not trust. That thread is here.......... http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59131
On Jan 16th at 6:30am - Todd responds simply "Good Luck!".
* Later that day I relist the lesser girls along with a male from the clutch that I was going to hold back (I had been wavering over whether to keep a girl over a boy, I always have such a soft spot for the girls for some reason). I list the 1.2 with the caveat that I will sell either the 1.1 or the 0.2 but I always intended to hold one sib back.
Jan 18th and 19th- I have a tentative offer for a girl, and I relist the 1.1 in the trades section (hoping for a bee). I state in the relisting that the previous deal "fell through" because it seems more polite than "last buyer creeped me out and I backed out of the deal".
Sat, Jan 19th 2pm - I receive the following email, verbatim, from Todd. But oddly it is sent to my secondary email account (which is where correspondence directly through the KS link goes) it states...
"LIES COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU. THE DEAL DIDN'T FALL THROUGH...YOU CANCELLED IT AFTER WE AGREED TO A PRICE AND MONEY WAS BEING SENT. MORE THAN LIKELY BECAUSE YOU GOT A BETTER OFFER.
IT'S YOUR REPUTATION...HOPE IT WAS WORTH IT!"
I chose not to respond to that one (although I suppose sending him this link will be considered a response). And no, I did not have a better offer, just a bad feeling about the deal. I will also point out that no check from the partner ever showed up, although if the partner was going to mail it first thing it should have been on its way here by the time I responded, backing out.
------------
Basically, I did feel guilty about backing out of a verbal deal. I chose to back out because I need to respect the people I do business with and if that sounds hopelessly naive, so be it. I also am a very small breeder and have a great deal invested in all the kids that hatch or reside here. Maybe it's the estrogen, who knows.
So there it is. Take it as you will. If needed, I can produce ALL the original emails documenting the whole ordeal. Thanks for taking the time to read.
Cheers,
Kat Calderala
So herein I will be posting the short version of the story to follow, along with a breakdown of the correspondence of the almost transaction ( I can post the original emails, if need be). Todd was set to purchase 2 female lessers that I had listed on KS. The deal went forth despite some red flags that made me wonder. Ultimately I agreed to a deal via email for him to send me the money and I would ship him the girls. During the last few conversations via email I began to feel uneasy but felt that I had committed to the deal so I went along. After more than one insistence that I ship on a specific day, which would have been before the money cleared, I no longer felt right about the deal and sent an email to Todd stating that I was backing out of the deal and that I was sorry for the inconvenience. No money or snakes ever changed hands, but I could not in good conscience ship my girls to him when everything about the deal seemed slightly too shady.
----------------------
On January 12th I received an email from Mr. Smith offering me $1400 for two female 07 lesser platinum BP's that I had listed on KS for $900 each.
On January 13th at 9am - I responded that $1400 was a bit low since they were already below market value, but that I would split the difference and go $1600 for the two.
On January 13th at 11am - Todd responds with an email and asks what they currently weigh and what bloodline they are.
About 15 minutes later - I respond with their birthdate, hatch weights and current weights and I also give him the lineage of my sire and state that RDR is the only lesser bloodline I'm aware of. I also offer pics of both sire and grandsire to show the lightness of the line.
Jan 13th at 1:30pm - Todd states that he would like the pics of the sire and grandsire.
I send the email with the pics within an hour or so.
Jan 13th at 5:13pm - Todd states that he only has the funds for his original offer and if I change my mind I should get in touch.
Three minutes later I get another email about a ghost male he has that he is willing to offer in partial trade.
Jan 13th at 11pm - I politely inform Todd that I am not really looking for trades. I also wish him luck on his breeding season.
*Side Note - At this point I had pretty much written him off and was a bit uncomfortable at how the exchange had gone, yet todd was always polite so I wrote my annoyance off and let the whole thing go.*
Mon Jan 14th at 4pm - I get another email from todd saying he has spoken to his 'partner' and worked out a way to pay the original $1600. He asks where the funds should be sent.
On Jan 14th at 5:45 - I reply with the address he can paypal, I state that once the funds clear we can work out shipping, someone must be home to sign for the package, I only ship fedex overnight, etc.
On Jan 14th at 6:30 - Todd replies that his 'partner' is going to mail a check for his 'portion' and could I send the mailing address as well as pictures of the girls.
At 7pm - I reply with my mailing address and attach pics, as requested.
On Jan 14th, (Monday) At 7:20pm - Todd responds that his partner (and here he names someone I have never heard of) will be sending me $800 and he (Todd) will paypal me the other $800 at the end of the week. He then states that he would like them shipped on the 17th, as he will be home on the 18th.
*Side Note - At this point I am uncomfortable that a silent 'partner' has magically appeared to save the day, but again, Todd is very polite and I feel as if I have already committed to see the deal through. I am also a little surprised that he wants them shipped so quickly when no money has changed hands.*
Jan 14th, at 7:45 - I respond that I will keep an eye on the mail, and again state that I will NOT ship until the funds have cleared. I state that if the funds arrive rapidly and clear it is an option, but more than likely we needed to look at next week. I also state that I prefer to ship monday - wed so there is less chance of a package getting hung up over the weekend.
Monday Jan 14th at 8:15pm - Todd responds that he works during the week and the only day he is available to receive is the 18th. He says he has had no problems with fedex on fridays and the package is only going a couple hundred miles. He states that XXX (his partner) will mail the check tomorrow and he, todd, will pay at the end of the week as discussed previously.
* Side Note - I spend a sleepless night worrying about how this has gone, but I have always been a woman of my word and feel obligated to go through with it against my gut instinct. I keep telling myself that I don't have to do anything until the money shows, but at this point I am not comfortable with Todd and the way he has responded to the last few emails.*
Tues, Jan 15th at 8am - I send Todd another email stating again that I will not ship until the funds clear and that if he insists on shipping for friday delivery I will not be responsible for the package. As long as he is clear about that, I agree to the deal.
At 10:30am - Todd responds that it works for him and he will check back at the end of the week to pay his portion.
*Side Note - At this point I have serious misgivings and go back and forth in my mind over what the right thing to do is. And whether I can go through with it. I am not worried about the money, but I have serious misgivings about Todd and do not really want my girls going to him. I have the bright idea of doing a search here on the BOI, thinking that if he has a bunch of good guy threads, I will at least feel better about the deal. Alas, there is one thread from 4 years ago and it is not encouraging. I ultimately decide I cannot go through with the deal.*
Tues, jan 15th at noon - I send Todd an email stating that I am sincerely sorry for the inconvenience, but that I am backing out of the deal due to the number of discrepancies. I state that if his partner has already mailed the check, I will be happy to return it via overnight as soon as it shows up. I apologize several times for dragging the deal out. I state that the deal has not felt right from the beginning.
Tues, jan 15th at 7:30pm - Todd send me an email stating that he see's my concern on the shipping date and that he had been looking at the wrong week. What he meant to say was he wanted them shipped on the 24th. He says if that date works, I should just let him know and we can re-establish the deal. He apologizes for the confusion.
Jan 15th at 8:15pm - Todd sends a virtually identical email to the one above but adds that he "would still like to purcahse thet two females and can send the funds as agreed upon earlier."
On Jan 15th at 9pm - I respond to Todd that my decision stands and that I am not comfortable selling to him. I state again that there are too many questions surrounding the deal and apologize again for wasting his time.
I then post a query on BP.net asking for opinions on how others would have dealt with the situation (I did not list names or any identifying factors). I felt guilty for breaking the deal, but relieved that the girls were not going to someone I did not trust. That thread is here.......... http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59131
On Jan 16th at 6:30am - Todd responds simply "Good Luck!".
* Later that day I relist the lesser girls along with a male from the clutch that I was going to hold back (I had been wavering over whether to keep a girl over a boy, I always have such a soft spot for the girls for some reason). I list the 1.2 with the caveat that I will sell either the 1.1 or the 0.2 but I always intended to hold one sib back.
Jan 18th and 19th- I have a tentative offer for a girl, and I relist the 1.1 in the trades section (hoping for a bee). I state in the relisting that the previous deal "fell through" because it seems more polite than "last buyer creeped me out and I backed out of the deal".
Sat, Jan 19th 2pm - I receive the following email, verbatim, from Todd. But oddly it is sent to my secondary email account (which is where correspondence directly through the KS link goes) it states...
"LIES COME BACK TO HAUNT YOU. THE DEAL DIDN'T FALL THROUGH...YOU CANCELLED IT AFTER WE AGREED TO A PRICE AND MONEY WAS BEING SENT. MORE THAN LIKELY BECAUSE YOU GOT A BETTER OFFER.
IT'S YOUR REPUTATION...HOPE IT WAS WORTH IT!"
I chose not to respond to that one (although I suppose sending him this link will be considered a response). And no, I did not have a better offer, just a bad feeling about the deal. I will also point out that no check from the partner ever showed up, although if the partner was going to mail it first thing it should have been on its way here by the time I responded, backing out.
------------
Basically, I did feel guilty about backing out of a verbal deal. I chose to back out because I need to respect the people I do business with and if that sounds hopelessly naive, so be it. I also am a very small breeder and have a great deal invested in all the kids that hatch or reside here. Maybe it's the estrogen, who knows.
So there it is. Take it as you will. If needed, I can produce ALL the original emails documenting the whole ordeal. Thanks for taking the time to read.
Cheers,
Kat Calderala
