Tom Carlton dishonest and unethical

The Constrictor Zone · Aug 23, 2005

Him being small

He lost weight from breeding for about 4.5 months Tom had him. He was about 600 grams when he got him.

The Vet is good he gave me the right stuff to get rid of this RI. He knew what he was doing.

KelliH · Aug 23, 2005

As far as more information on the disease that I have heard about (not sure if this is what Daniel is dealing with or not), I have heard it is some sort of viral infection, almost like an AIDS in snakes. I know of people that have lost a bunch of ball pythons (high end and normal) from it.

I remember back in the mid-late 90's crypto was running rampant in leopard gecko collections. Almost every big breeder had it, and it caused major die off in their collections. What it taught me was quarantine! and the importance of it. Doing fecal checks on every new gecko. And those are leopard geckos; in this thread we are talking about ball pythons here, some of which are worth many thousands of dollars (that is so stupid BTW)! You would think people would kinda take extra, extra precaution with these animals especially, due to their high value. But NOPE.

Guess it takes a devastating disease like this to (unfortunately) kill off the snakes in the collections of the dorks that don't quarantine properly, and put them out of the ball python business. Most of them are in it strictly for the money anyway, many have "investors" that know nothing about reptiles at all! Damn, I bet there are some really pissed off investors out there.

brucestephenson · Aug 23, 2005

Great writing, Kelli!

Ed Clark · Aug 23, 2005

dans 5 minutes in the spot light.

Dan;you are blowing this way out of proportion! you are trying to make this into some new horrible disease.according to vet report that you posted,the ball python had nothing more than an upper respitory infection.very common when you cool down pythons for breeding.the python may even of had it before it was cooled down and the drop in temp.just made it worse.you might want to think twice about destroying the business of cypress creek reptiles!

The Constrictor Zone · Aug 23, 2005

5 minutes in the spotlight

Tom has ripped me off on some high end hatchlings. I hope he doesnt sell anything else.

The Constrictor Zone · Aug 23, 2005

This is defiantly not just about the RI

How about the het ghost he owes me. He was in Orlando bragging about having clutches of spiders and bumblebees. He had a list on his table in Daytona advertising he was waiting on spiders and bumble bees. I think you need to re Read this thread.

pch101 · Aug 23, 2005

Tom's reluctance to come here does not look good for him. Choosing not to come here to defend himself is a path that generally indicates to guilt...

The Constrictor Zone · Aug 23, 2005

Toms problems have just begun

For anyone that doesnt think Tom is crooked. Well hes on Federal Probation.

The Constrictor Zone · Aug 23, 2005

Should have said

For anyone who thinks Tom isnt crooked he is on Federal Probation.

KelliH · Aug 23, 2005

Dan;you are blowing this way out of proportion! you are trying to make this into some new horrible disease.according to vet report that you posted,the ball python had nothing more than an upper respitory infection.very common when you cool down pythons for breeding.the python may even of had it before it was cooled down and the drop in temp.just made it worse.you might want to think twice about destroying the business of cypress creek reptiles!

Sorry but I have to disagree that URI is very common when you cool down ball pythons for breeding. I have never seen it in any ball python we have cooled down for breeding. Actually I have never even seen it in ANY boid we have ever had in our collection (we have had a lot of them) with the exception being a burmese python that had a mild case when we received it. I have never heard of any sort of RI being common with ball pythons until this year, when talk started coming out about this disease/new strain/whatever you want to call it.

I notice the vet report states that the snake tested postive for Pseudomonas seruginosa . I did some quick Googling (not much info out there though) and going by what I read it appears that particular sp. of Pseudomonas is highly resistant to most antibiotics. Perhaps that is why it is so tough to treat.

KelliH · Aug 23, 2005

For anyone who thinks Tom isnt crooked he is on Federal Probation.

Did you have knowledge of this before placing your animals on loan with him? Or is this something you have just become aware of? Also, what is he on probation for, and what proof do you have? That is a very serious allegation.

The Constrictor Zone · Aug 23, 2005

No I didn't have knowledge of this.

I didnt know until Tom was over my Fathers house playing poker. He was telling me about an illegal poker game that he goes to. I asked him if he wasn't worried about getting robbed thier. He replied No his only concearn was that if the game got busted he was on Federal Probation. I didn't want to ask for what. My snakes were already at his house for over two months by this time and supposedly the spider was a continusly locking up with two Pastel Females. I figured everyone has made mistakes.

The Constrictor Zone · Aug 23, 2005

For everyone wanting email correspondance

Tom just live 40 minutes from me. So I never emailed him I would just call and go by his house.

Ed Clark · Aug 23, 2005

Dan,I do not need to re read the thread,I have read it and understand it.what I see here is you crying about something that was done to you ,that you have done to others in the past.are you not the same person that people were accusing you of sending them snakes with IBD and that were dieing on them.I am not talking about 1 person there were a few people.if I am wrong please correct me!

The Constrictor Zone · Aug 23, 2005

No

thier was one person Who never posted any proof of IBD. NEVER a a picture I recieved nothing. YOU can have your opinion but I never ripped anyone off. I told Brock plenty of times lets see some proof thier wasnt any.

The Constrictor Zone · Aug 23, 2005

MR. ED Clark

I would like to know who you are making a reference too besides Brock that said anything about IBD. Im not trying to get into any little internet battle with you. I would like to know who you are talking about?? Because I have not heard anything.

The Constrictor Zone · Aug 23, 2005

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Im doing something right know so If your able to post who you were talking about. Id like to know I'll check back later. If not no hard feelings.

Dennis Hultman · Aug 23, 2005

Ed Clark said:
Dan,I do not need to re read the thread,I have read it and understand it.what I see here is you crying about something that was done to you ,that you have done to others in the past.are you not the same person that people were accusing you of sending them snakes with IBD and that were dieing on them.I am not talking about 1 person there were a few people.if I am wrong please correct me!

Dennis Hultman · Aug 23, 2005

*prove= Proof

5StarrMorphs · Aug 23, 2005

Ok

For those that know me, or even a simple search, will see that I should have a little bit of bias on this thread. However all bias aside, Dan has every right to post this here.

Jim O said:
So you are saying that a 440g male was breeding? I'm not a big ball python guy but that seems a bit small. On the other hand the animal in the vet report did clearly have two gram negatives in the culture.

Jim is right, he is not a big ball python guy but I am, and if he were, he would know that males will breed at any size and there is nothing definitive on age as well. Kind of like the luck of the draw.

brucestephenson said:
Do you think this vet, James Hughes, is great at reptiles?

Does it really matter how good he is? A report is a report, and it wouldn't show up in the culture if it weren't true.

Ed Clark said:
Dan,I do not need to re read the thread,I have read it and understand it.what I see here is you crying about something that was done to you ,that you have done to others in the past.are you not the same person that people were accusing you of sending them snakes with IBD and that were dieing on them.I am not talking about 1 person there were a few people.if I am wrong please correct me!

As I said above, Dan has every right to "cry" here about what has happened. The other comments pertaining to IBD and Dan belong on the existing thread pertaining to that particular subject. This thread is about a breeding loan with Tom Carlton @ Cyress Creek and an RI with an animal that was returned. Someone asked for the report and he supplied it, end of case.

Unfortunately Dan, unless you live next to one another, there is no way currently to find out if in fact any hatchlings were sired by your male without spending a ton of money. If he had the same animals that were breeding, there really is no need to accept yours unless in fact there were problems getting him to go, or his male was spent on too many other females. Whatever the case, I am sure lesson learned. Unless you are partners, there is really no reason to do a breeding loan as all control is lost on the animals supplied.

In addition, what Tom has done outside of this thread topic, should remain private IMO. Poker and probation are just not part of it Dan. Also it is unfortunate you lost the clutch of eggs from the female I sold you as it could have been very fruitful. If I read the post right and he does live 40 minutes from you, that could have equated to you losing the clutch. Any prolonged drop in temperatures could have caused their demise and cannot be solely contributed to Tom's husbandry skills.

Lastly since I love analogies

If you owned a Range Rover and it was in perfect working condition, why would you borrow the exact same vehicle a friend has?? You wouldn't and I think that sums up this entire thread in it's entirety and validity.

Jeff Morrison
5StarrMorphs

Tom Carlton dishonest and unethical

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