Tom Crutchfield: Greatest Reptile Dealer of All Time?

[pch101]

Bruce, is it too late for me to change my mind and join your fan club?

 

[brucestephenson]

Hello All,

I will no longer respond to any personal attacks on this issue. I note that none of you have provided any legitimate proof at all to challenge post #1, my topic and statement.

To you personal attackers: Bill O'Reilly would be proud of your style of debate, but I remain very unimpressed.

 

[Ophis]

Bruce, is it too late for me to change my mind and join your fan club?

I think that means its too late dude.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

Greetings! (as Tom would say),

Tom Crutchfield is relatively inactive right now (as far as the rest of you know). Nevertheless, I have had nothing but positive experiences in dealing with him. Tom has bought and sold the nicest and rarest reptiles and amphibians of all time and has been a completely honest, kind, and outstanding man. To me, he is the John Wayne of herpetoculture and will often be imitated, but never duplicated. Thank You!

Exactly what challenge are you referring to Bruce? The entire first post is shown above.

 

[cthulhu77]

Well, I am certainly still a member...I liked the guy. Sorry I didn't have any bad experiences...but I didn't. Heard about the law violations, and yep, he had to pay for it...but didn't he do that?
Am I asking for herpers to emulate him? Not by a long shot. But I am not going to jump on some bashing bandwagon either, because I have no experience with him being an evil person...
He always treated me fairly, and was always pleasant.

greg

 

[pch101]

Joe, I guess you are right. I guess I blew my chance...

Greg, I respect your opinion and your reservation to bash Tom. I do not feel like I am doing so, I just feel like the original post is a bit of a stretch (actually a huge stretch). I personally feel his disregard for the law outweighs whatever good he has brought to the hobby. Just my opinion.

Bruce, I do not think it is our job to prove that Tom is not the Greatest Reptile Dealer of all time. I think the burden of proof would belong to the person making the claim, and I do not think you have proved anything except that the subject of Tom Crutchfield is a major controversy. However, I do like your sense of humor, and your ability to keep it even when under fire. Even though I do not agree with what you have said in your post(s), I have to admit, you have made me chuckle once or twice. BTW, I like Bill O'Rilley.

 

[DavidButton]

Well I have one last thing to say on this subject. To all you people who say tht you got junk, you must have never bought an imported animal before that then. I remember when Tom worked out of his house in the mid-late 70's and I used to go over and help him clean cages etc.. and saw the animals that came in and yes some looked better than others, but of couse they did. As someone stated earlier, you will always get some junk animals in large imported groups. But these are not "bad" or "junk" animals. You just want instand satisfaction is all. I got some butt ugly haitian tree boas from Tom once and he told me to wait a coupel sheds and see what they looked like and sure enough they turned out to be some beauties in about 6 months. So my point, if you haven't figured it out already, is that not all imports are going to be perfect right off and if you knew anything at all about it you would already know this. They need some good feeding and care and most will turn out to be fine snakes.
And as for you people bashing him for bringing in endangered wildlife. He did his time and something that nobody has mentioned in this whole long thread is that those animals were sold here in the good ol' USA and the people who were buying them were not kids off the street or little old ladies, they were herp keepers like yourselves. That's right, people that you probably know and deal with have somewhere down the line either dealt with Tom on some illegal deal with reptiles or know of someone who has. There are so many "private" collections out there that have many illegal reptiles in them that is ridiculous to pin this whole thing on just 2 or 3 guys. If there weren't a demand for these animals there would never have been any smuggling to begin with. So don't be so high and mighty because I am sure that there are a few people on this site that have animals that aren't exactly legal or they don't have the proper permits for them. I have seen it first hand at shows when the wildlife officer show up and people start shoving things under the tables and scrambling around trying to find their paper work that doesn't exist. So there are plenty of guilty people out there, it is just that they are your friends so you look the other way and bash the ones that aren't your friends. Grow up people.

David Button

 

[pch101]

David said: "So there are plenty of guilty people out there, it is just that they are your friends so you look the other way and bash the ones that aren't your friends. Grow up people."

Actually, from your post it sounds like that is exactly what you are doing. Tom is apparently your friend, and you look the other way. You seem to think he is a swell guy. I have had so called friends that pulled things like that (not to the extreme that Tom has), and I did not look the other way. I stopped associating with them, I do not have anything to do with them. I do not deal or associate with those kinds of people. So when you say Tom sold his illegal animals to people just like me, maybe you should rethink your statement, because I would not take a Figi Island Iguana (even for free) from anyone (unless they could prove to me that it was 100% legal).

 

[reptilebreeder]

If there weren't a demand for these animals there would never have been any smuggling to begin with. David Button

Reading my posts It's obvious where I stand on this issue, so I'm not even gonna waste my time with your whole post, just this part. I'm gonna call BS, on that one. That statement is what is wrong with not only the herping industry, but this whole nation as a whole. That is placing the blame on someone else. "It's not his fault, it's the demand".

Anybody wanna buy some crack? I wouldn't be selling it cause I know it's illegal, but it's not my fault.

 

[miamireps]

If you breed
Sanzinia,
Diamond Pythons
Beardeds
Shingleback Skinks
Snakeneck turtles
radiated tortoises
albino burmese pythons
and many many others,
you shoudl thank Tom.
Though what he did was illegal it could not have been done any other way.
Thanks to various laws that prohibit imports, and trade in these animals.
More good than harm has been done, that is for sure.
Do you actually think that Radiateds will survive in Madagascar for another 30-40 years? If not for us BREEDERS obtaining animals like these and being succesful with them without the red tape and beuracracy (sp?) of zoos, they will in no way be secure a future.

 

[miamireps]

Also,
back in the hey days, you got what you could get. Being no competition was the main reason we have so many established animals now breeding like if it has been done for centuries in captivity.
Nowadays people just freeze the bad and sick. Atleast back then when someone got that coveted animal that was in bad shape they would actually put time and effort into making it good for breeding stock.
That is the way it was, stuff actually sold out before it landed and people got what they wanted. Be it good or bad. Reason being you wanted something, and wanted it now. You might not see it again, or it may not come in again.
So first come first serve.
Saying that TOM sent out tons of bad animals could be true. And was expected back then. The exporters didnt know about quality like they do now. The importers had such demand they sold everything. Sadly though today we just "freeze" it if it has a stub tail or mouth rot. Back then, people actually worked with what they got becuase it was new, and exciting.
Do not compare today with yesterday. The only difference is that maybe he took peoples money and never sent animals.
Also Evan, check your public records. Type in Tom Crutchfield in google and look it up.
You will see he did not get brought back by agents from the U.S. and he did not come by force. He came voluntarily and they arrested him on arrival.

 

[turtlepimp]

If you breed
Sanzinia,
Diamond Pythons
Beardeds
Shingleback Skinks
Snakeneck turtles
radiated tortoises
albino burmese pythons
and many many others,
you shoudl thank Tom.
Though what he did was illegal it could not have been done any other way.
Thanks to various laws that prohibit imports, and trade in these animals.
More good than harm has been done, that is for sure.
Do you actually think that Radiateds will survive in Madagascar for another 30-40 years? If not for us BREEDERS obtaining animals like these and being succesful with them without the red tape and beuracracy (sp?) of zoos, they will in no way be secure a future.

So,Mikey,are you in or out?

 

[brucestephenson]

GREAT POST Michael Barrera!!!!! You win a free membership!!!!! You will be contacted by one of our sleeper cells and ritually inducted into the fan club, (assuming you survive the ceremony).

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Let me say this much about "the good old days" and

Tom or for that matter of fact anyone who is still around. Business decisions were based on choices. Some good, some bad. Some legal some illegal. It was not uncommon to recieve some animals that were not manifested, and sometimes should never have come into this country, but for whatever reason were sent by the shipper. If you were caught with these items at the airport, it was a federal crime, and could lead to some legal problems. If they slipped by, they just were sold, and the exporter notified that "dont do it again" whether that choice was the correct one, as opposed to freezing the herp was also a choice. I learnt my lesson and chose the latter, because I got myself in allot of trouble by choosing the former. This was 37 years ago.

Tom also had choices and they became so funneled that he had only one course of action to take namely, "face the music" which he did, did his time and moved on with his life. As I indicated earlier he has restrictions placed on him, and as far as I know, has continued to stay out of trouble. It would be impossible to determine the value he provided to the herp community. He aquired to many friends and enemies along the way. Whether you want to consider him a legend depends on what side of the coin is thrown. Tom is a biproduct of the 70s where restrictions really began to emerge in the herp edeavors. Its really a tough call to label someone, today when life was quite different 35 years ago and so many things have changed.

 

[John Cherry]

Tom in a nutshell - warning too long

I have watched this post with some interest, as I too have been in this hobby for many years. Been thru the Snake Scam of Widlife After Dark fame etc. etc. It seems to me that while Tom can and has been critiqued by many for the many adventures in his life, no-one can deny that he indeed was a real charactor that added color to this hobby in a time filled with charactors. I still remember with fondness towards some and regret towards others all those guys back in the days when we were all so naive and uneducated when it came to reptiles. The guys like John Werler, Joe Lazlow, Buss Ross, Barney from Western Zoological, Louis Poras from The Shed, Ray from Pet Farm, Tom Crutchfield, Robbie Rosenburg, Ross Allen, Hank Molt, Bill Haast, Thompson, W.A. Snake King. Rossi etc. etc. were all charactors in one way or another. Most of us in that day and age at one time or another had problems adjusting to the new regulations and the regulatory community in general.

Most of did, some didn't. Those that didn't ended up having futher problems, those that did have for the most part evolved into the large breeders in this hobby for the most part. Everyone involved in the hobby/business back in those days were trying to fiqure out how to keep from having to get a real job and do what we all wanted to do "work with reptiles". Most of us had to get jobs in other areas, myself included. Some like Randall Berry migrated to zoo work and others into retail sales. Then there those that found it hard to make the required changes in newly evolved world of reptiles caused by captive breeding, regulations and conservation issues. You might say that the times past them by.

As for Tom? John Wayne? A hero? No I don't believe even he would portray himself that way. A person bent on breaking any law that attempted to govern his way of life? A real waste of air space to the world of reptiles. No again I don't think so. He is just a guy that screwed up a part of his life and paid a price. Did he ever ship B quality animals? Sure he did! I was one of the people that recieved some of those animals. I alos got some really good ones also. But at that time in this hobby/business everyone that imported had a certain amount of those type animals that they shipped. Some folks did a better job than others, I personally am not going to fault anyone for being motivated by the same forces everyone else was working with in those days.

Bottom line is Tom Crutchfield is a man that brought some really neat animals into the country that have formed some of the gene pools from which we all benefit from in todays hobby. He also is a man that made some mistakes, god knows I have made my share also. I hopefully have learned from those mistakes and will not repeat them again. I hope Tom and a few of the others have the same ambition and are sucessful in finding happiness in legal, environmentally friendly and constructive ways of life that enhance the future of the reptile hobby for years to come.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Since we are on a nostalga kick,

I found these photos from 1978. Some of us are still around, and some have left the building. One name in particular you should look for is Leakey. This is the son of the famous anthropologist Louis Leakey and Mary Leakey. He was my business partner. Thats another story unto itself. . http://www.jtresser.com/HERPPEOPLE.html

 

[Metachrosis]

Pretty clear you know nothing about John Wayne,read up on who he really was and then buy Herps with Confidence from Tom C.

M~

What did I just read?

"To me, he is the John Wayne of herpetoculture and will often be imitated, but never duplicated. Thank You!"

As far as I know, John Wayne did not indulge in criminal activity and I do not think he was a convicted felon. I think it is safe to say that he was not a smuggler or rare and endangered wildlife. How in the world could anyone ever compare Tom Crutchfield to John Wayne? It is very sad that there are those in this hobby that would choose to idolize a wildlife smuggler. He is as low as they get.

 

[Suncoast Herpetological]

I'm assuming you have some reason for this rather bizarre statement. Please elaborate.

Also, full names are required on each post on the BOI. Without it you risk having your posts deleted.

 

[old guy]

You talking Leakeys of Africa , right...

Which would also be Jonathan one of the reptile dealers of fame. I had ordered many a venonous snakes from him when gaboons, puffs and rhinos were under $10 each or how about a black mamba at $6.00. Or try a juvenile leopard tortoise for $4.00. Here is a price list. ( like i said, i gota million of em ).

I found these photos from 1978. Some of us are still around, and some have left the building. One name in particular you should look for is Leakey. This is the son of the famous anthropologist Louis Leakey and Mary Leakey. He was my business partner. Thats another story unto itself. . http://www.jtresser.com/HERPPEOPLE.html

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Well I have one last thing to say on this subject. To all you people who say tht you got junk, you must have never bought an imported animal before that then. I remember when Tom worked out of his house in the mid-late 70's and I used to go over and help him clean cages etc.. and saw the animals that came in and yes some looked better than others, but of couse they did. As someone stated earlier, you will always get some junk animals in large imported groups. But these are not "bad" or "junk" animals. You just want instand satisfaction is all. I got some butt ugly haitian tree boas from Tom once and he told me to wait a coupel sheds and see what they looked like and sure enough they turned out to be some beauties in about 6 months. So my point, if you haven't figured it out already, is that not all imports are going to be perfect right off and if you knew anything at all about it you would already know this. They need some good feeding and care and most will turn out to be fine snakes.
And as for you people bashing him for bringing in endangered wildlife. He did his time and something that nobody has mentioned in this whole long thread is that those animals were sold here in the good ol' USA and the people who were buying them were not kids off the street or little old ladies, they were herp keepers like yourselves. That's right, people that you probably know and deal with have somewhere down the line either dealt with Tom on some illegal deal with reptiles or know of someone who has. There are so many "private" collections out there that have many illegal reptiles in them that is ridiculous to pin this whole thing on just 2 or 3 guys. If there weren't a demand for these animals there would never have been any smuggling to begin with. So don't be so high and mighty because I am sure that there are a few people on this site that have animals that aren't exactly legal or they don't have the proper permits for them. I have seen it first hand at shows when the wildlife officer show up and people start shoving things under the tables and scrambling around trying to find their paper work that doesn't exist. So there are plenty of guilty people out there, it is just that they are your friends so you look the other way and bash the ones that aren't your friends. Grow up people.

David Button

David I couldn't of stated it better Heres A hardy hand shake