Bad Guy Tom Parker/Tropical Tom's. Did not sent animals and did not refund.

[tcp2]

It is the middle of the night in Seattle and I really do not want to continue this but I have the perfect solution. Instead of trying to be nice to Chan and figure out how to refund the payment and get my fees back, I should have shipped the snake to the broker on the originally requested ship date and then it would have been Chan's problem to figure out how to get the snake overseas. Instead I agreed to refund the money. I have sold and shipped a lot of animals, and I have purchased a lot of animals. This is the first time anything like this has come up. It is easy to say how everything should have been handled in a perfect World. There will be a lot more up front dialog on future cases like this one. That was not possible here since communication was difficult at best with lots of emails that were hard to interpret as to what was being asked for.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Mr. Chen, please use the attachment function to share images on the BOI.

Instructions:


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304671

Tom, while you are not obligated to post the full communication stream, it would be beneficial to do so if you feel there are some key elements omitted or in dispute.

 

[Fangthane]

It is the middle of the night in Seattle and I really do not want to continue this but I have the perfect solution. Instead of trying to be nice to Chan and figure out how to refund the payment and get my fees back, I should have shipped the snake to the broker on the originally requested ship date and then it would have been Chan's problem to figure out how to get the snake overseas.

Yeah, retaliatory pettiness is always the perfect solution, especially when an innocent animal is involved. Based on the actual evidence that only one of you cared enough to provide, it's looking like the whole shipping scenario was a short-notice affair, and at the time you didn't express any issues with any aspect of it. Again, based on the only available proof, about three weeks passed between payment and his initial shipping request. There's nothing to indicate that there's any truth to the timeline you've been citing - the whole "4 months" of lost sales thing. IF you actually did hold the animal for several months without payment, I think that's more on you than on him. If you're so experienced in the reptiles biz, I'm not sure how you could have avoided learning long ago that words are wind until money changes hands.

You're saying his messages are hard to understand, but I disagree. His broken English is better than some for whom it's their first language. I didn't see anything that was particularly difficult to decipher. You say that he still owes you for shipping, but there's nothing in the screenshots that would even slightly indicate that. You say that he edited the correspondence "for his benefit," but refuse to do anything to demonstrate that that's actually the case.

It is easy to say how everything should have been handled in a perfect World.

Here in our imperfect world, you're wonderfully illustrating that it's also very easy to make accusations without backing them up. I suspect you'll express a total disinterest in my opinion - if you finally choose to acknowledge me at all - but I gotta say, you seem to be grasping at any excuse possible, and your various claims don't seem to be based in reality. In all honesty, this situation is putting me in mind of past ones where people ran into financial issues that prevented them from issuing a timely refund. Instead of just admitting that things in their lives may have been falling apart to any degree, they tended to rationalize how everything was someone else's fault.

 

[Lucille]

Instead of trying to be nice to Chan and figure out how to refund the payment and get my fees back, I should have shipped the snake to the broker on the originally requested ship date and then it would have been Chan's problem to figure out how to get the snake overseas.

As I said before, all your buyer wanted was either the snake or his money back, that seems reasonable.
As I also previously alluded to, had you shipped the snake to the broker, it would still be, in Paypal's eyes, still your problem to get the snake to the buyer. If a buyer requests that you do something that would put you in a weak position, like ship to a third party while using Paypal, you can always politely decline and explain the situation, and try to come up with a satisfactory alternative.
I commend you for reworking your TOS, because a strong TOS helps reduce uncertainty. But this customer's requests are reasonable, and when a customer is reasonable it is always worth trying to be nice to them.
How much are the fees on $650? I don't think Paypal's fees are very high, hopefully in the future this will not happen again but if it does you might consider just consider paying the fees as a cost of doing business if the alternative is an extended wait for a refund by your buyer.

 

[chenhaoran]

up-load picture in the right way.

Hello Mr.Anastasiou
Is this OK? Thx

 

[chenhaoran]

up-load picture in the right way (2)

This is the same picture up-load again in the correct way.
Thx

 

[chenhaoran]

up-load picture in the right way (3)

Thank you for every one that give me any advice.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

Yes. Thank you.

 

[tcp2]

As I have said I am going to issue the full refund. With new terms of sale on my sites this should not be a problem again. Dan ,I will acknowledge your comments. It is easy to say how things should have transpired when you are not involved. Shipping the snake to the broker obviously did not happen and was not going to. As pointed out in previous posts, shipping to a 3rd party will invalidate the refund potential. I have had payments reversed before when I shipped the product to a business address and not the home address of the buyer. I hope Chen will post when the payment is received without having to email him privately and ask him to acknowledge receipt of payment.

 

[Fangthane]

Dan ,I will acknowledge your comments. It is easy to say how things should have transpired when you are not involved.

That statement literally doesn't apply to anything I've said to you. Your comments have flat-out not lined up with the evidence that Chen has presented. You've supplied absolutely no proof for the charges you've made against him, charges that his evidence shoots all to hell. People seem oddly reluctant to notice that which doesn't present you in a favorable light; while I can't understand how I seem to be the only one that has an issue with you apparently choosing to lie about the details of this transaction to paint the OP as the shady character. Potential buyers should be wary of dealing with anyone who has such a cavalier attitude toward misrepresentation, which certainly seems to describe how you've handled this thread.

 

[tcp2]

Dan, I am not going to respond to your posts anymore. The buyer changes the ship date one day before he wants the snake shipped. He gives me very little notice to when he even wanted the snake shipped. I agreed to the first ship date even thought that was going to be difficult to pull off on short notice. He paid for the price of the snake, never even inquired what it would cost to ship her. When I couldn't pull a rabbit out of a hat and ship on one days notice, he wanted a full refund. Really? I passed up many sales of a female pied ball python while I held the snake for him. He started inquiring about the snake way before he paid for it. Countless emails. No, I am not going to find every single one of them for you to dissect. This has already consumed way too much time. Since paypal will not pull funds from my new bank account until they verify it in the next few days, I have to have someone put money into my paypal account through friends and family. You are spending way too much time with your everybody is a bad guy conspiracy theories. Now that I have updated terms of service, I would not have issued a full refund in this case. He could have figured out some other way to have the snake shipped. I am taking care of multiple hundred animals and really cannot continue the back and forth. The balance of the refund will go out today and Chen can then acknowledge the payment so we can all get on with our lives.

 

[chenhaoran]

That statement literally doesn't apply to anything I've said to you. Your comments have flat-out not lined up with the evidence that Chen has presented. You've supplied absolutely no proof for the charges you've made against him, charges that his evidence shoots all to hell. People seem oddly reluctant to notice that which doesn't present you in a favorable light; while I can't understand how I seem to be the only one that has an issue with you apparently choosing to lie about the details of this transaction to paint the OP as the shady character. Potential buyers should be wary of dealing with anyone who has such a cavalier attitude toward misrepresentation, which certainly seems to describe how you've handled this thread.

Hello Dan.

Thank you and Thank you and Thank you.
Even it took me a while to translate your reply.
Really.Thx a lot

Hope you have a good night.
Chan

 

[Fangthane]

You are spending way too much time with your everybody is a bad guy conspiracy theories.

Another one of your convenient little misrepresentations that don't remotely line up with reality. They seem to come really easily to you. I'm simply calling you a liar and daring you to prove me wrong. As many times as you've said you were done with this thread, you've kept coming back and putting more time into doing anything but proving your words are true. But go ahead and try to turn it around on me. It's just another move taken straight out of The Handbook.

 

[tcp2]

Chan has his refund in full.

 

[tlmoon]

Good to hear Tom.

I really don't see either the OP or the seller as a bad guy or a scammer. One one hand, it looks like the request to ship on 10/24 was made on 10/23 - Hong Kong time? Which is ahead of Pacific time so that is pretty last minute. Tom, I think it would have been a cleaner transaction to know that you couldn't ship then and tell him clearly. He apparently didn't know since he was texting to check why the snake didn't arrive. And to be fair, waiting until now for the refund is a little long. As you've indicated a refund in these situations is not always granted so it was good of you to do that.

Probably frustrating for both of you, but I'm glad it looks to be resolved now.

 

[Fangthane]

I really don't see either the OP or the seller as a bad guy or a scammer.

Within the context of what took place in the actual transaction before this thread appeared, I could probably agree with that. However, I think the posts within this thread tell a different story. In my years here, I've noticed that the Good Guys almost universally avoid attacking one's credibility while refusing to give hard supporting evidence. Can you put yourself in the mindset of someone who truly feels his claims are righteous, yet has no interest in corroborating those claims by posting the texts/emails that he somehow just doesn't feel like going through? I know I can't.

If you feel strongly enough to level the charge, you should feel strongly enough to back it up. At this point, I can't really see his refusal as anything other than a tacit admission that he'd do nothing more than incriminate himself by making his copies available. Claiming someone is manipulating evidence is a pretty serious accusation to be throwing around without one shred of proof. If you'd honestly feel good about buying from someone who's shown such a willingness do just that, I'm really not even sure how to respond to that.

If he's willing to grossly misrepresent the details of what occurred during one transaction - and he's presented nothing tangible that would discourage such a conclusion - what makes you believe he wouldn't choose to do so again in your dealings with him? I don't think anything is gained by sweeping this under the rug and pretending it's a wash. Since when does the BOI take someone at his word when it doesn't come close to aligning with all available evidence?

 

[chenhaoran]

Yes. Mr.Tom~
I saw the money is pending.Will post it again as it complete
Thx

 

[tlmoon]

Fair enough point Dan. I am stuck with an optimistic nature and I do wear rose colored glasses at times! I don't know quite what went down with this transaction but at least both parties were willing to try to work it out. Granted, Chen had to post here to get things moving.

 

[chenhaoran]

Money still Pending on paypal.
I will post it when the refund complete.

Thank you
Chan

 

[chenhaoran]

Hello.The refund is done.
May I ask how to deleted this thread or whom should I contact with?

Thank you
Chan