Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[KelliH]

Chris, I absolutely hope you get better soon, and I am really sorry to hear you are ill, I was not sure what had happened. My thoughts are with you. So who exactly is the owner of Top Shelf Exotics now?

 

[jglass38]

This is a valuable post. I think people may buy from Top Shelf based on reputation, if Chris is no longer part of the transaction, the reputation of Top Shelf will change based on the service of the people who now run it. So actually, this thread may establish what to expect from those who now actually do the transactions.

Business aside I think I speak for everyone in wishing Chris a safe a speedy recovery to his illness.

Lucille,

People have bought from Top Shelf based on a reputation established by Chris through his business transactions and his involvement here. Its sad to see that the guys there don't appear to be carrying on in his absence the way he may have expected would happen. He has either been too sick or too far removed to set things straight. Chris has always been a good guy and its sad to hear that he is not doing well. I was not aware (as probably most weren't) that his illness was as serious as he has stressed it to be. That said, the people who he has entrusted with HIS business need to step up and deliver. Weather is NO excuse at this time of year. Chris, I hope you get well soon man! I also hope that his business' reputation doesn't take a beating due to the failures of those currently in charge and running the day to day.

J

 

[reptilebreeder]

. I can certainly understand why you may be encountering problems corresponding, if I had received any emails from you similar in attitude to what you have posted here I would not be "jumping" to reply either. Try losing the attitidue perhaps, you catch more flies with honesy or something like that... =].

Okay, well my opinion has changed. I know I'm only one person, but that is way off base from a business perspective. People have a right to get upset when there is NO communication, when they try to initiate communication, but get no or poor responses, the honey will eventually get rotten. I could understand if someone sent a profanity laced, screaming mad e-mail 2 days after submitting payment, but I don't think that is the case here. I think you have the attitude and perspective backwards in this case. I can understand that what those people are doing (to your business?) may be out of your hands, but for you to basically condone their poor or no communication, because the person who bought, but hasn't received something, may be losing a bit of patience, is wrong.
I also think that if you are that far removed from the business that it is good you posted here, saying so, as a lot of people have probably purchased from TSE, on your rep, and now people may have a change of opinion, seeing how the "people in charge" are handling things.

 

[Whitewater Reptiles]

Chris,
Sorry to hear of your illness and I really hope it's something you can beat. I purchased from Chris during the winter of 2004 (0.4 Het. Albino's) and I too had to wait for better weather, but when the weather was good he shipped and the animals arrived in excellent condition. I would without hesitation purchase from Chris again but if he's no longer in charge and taking care of business then I may go elsewhere. Chris worked hard to establish a good reputation, building it one customer at a time. But if he's no longer involved and the new people think they have a free ride based on what Chris has created, they better enjoy it while it lasts. Or possibly with Chris out of the mix and some new people taking care of business, this could be what we call growing pains or a learning curve, either way I hope they get it worked out. And if Chris is truly out, then I guess they are hurting TSE.
Good luck, Mike Derks

 

[Lucille]

That said, the people who he has entrusted with HIS business need to step up and deliver. Weather is NO excuse at this time of year.

J

This is my point. I think we need to be kind to Chris and wish him well; he may have been too ill to post that he was no longer in charge of the transactions in his business. In any case, someone who is bedridden 20 hours a day should not be antagonized or put on the spot, he needs his strength to recover, let's not kick a man when he's down.


I think TSE needs to be treated like a new company and establish its own new reputation, IMHO. If shipments are late and service is not what you expect, then I would, were it my deal, find alternatives until the new management hopefully gets it together.

 

[jglass38]

This is my point. I think we need to be kind to Chris and wish him well; he may have been too ill to post that he was no longer in charge of the transactions in his business. In any case, someone who is bedridden 20 hours a day should not be antagonized or put on the spot, he needs his strength to recover, let's not kick a man when he's down.


I think TSE needs to be treated like a new company and establish its own new reputation, IMHO. If shipments are late and service is not what you expect, then I would, were it my deal, find alternatives until the new management hopefully gets it together.

Wait a sec. I understand that Chris is ill and had he suspended business transactions during his absence, then this thread wouldn't exist. Since he decided to allow business to continue and put his faith in his employees, this topic is definitely open for discussion and debate. Either he (and I understand he is not feeling well) or those he put in charge should answer this thread and address the claims at hand. I don't think asking that is kicking him while he is down.

 

[shrap]

I know someone who has been waiting since November to get their animal shipped and is still waiting. They said they will finally ship this Tuesday, if not she will be coming here as well with her.

I feel I need to mention this because I highly recommended Chris at TSE to her and told her she had nothing to worry about when dealing with Chris. I did not realize at the time, in fact not until today, that Chris was seriously ill and not running the business otherwise I would not have sent her to TSE.

 

[shrap]

Edit: They said they will finally ship this Tuesday, if not she will be coming here as well with her complaint.

Forgot the word "complaint" at the end of that sentence in the original post.

 

[Lucille]

Wait a sec. I understand that Chris is ill and had he suspended business transactions during his absence, then this thread wouldn't exist. Since he decided to allow business to continue and put his faith in his employees, this topic is definitely open for discussion and debate. Either he (and I understand he is not feeling well) or those he put in charge should answer this thread and address the claims at hand. I don't think asking that is kicking him while he is down.

I think he is out of the picture, he as much as said so. I do not know whether those running the biz now are employees, partners, or new owners and of course it would be good to know that.
We cannot demand that he answer our questions, he's sick.
He (and we) cannot demand the presence of his existing management either, it's not like we can subpoena them or anything. Should they address these issues? Undoubtedly. Whether they will or not is not up to us, or to Chris. My only point is that he be left in peace to recover the best he can; I certainly do not want to close off discussion of this matter at all since there are plainly people who are not getting their critters shipped to them..

 

[jglass38]

I think he is out of the picture, he as much as said so. I do not know whether those running the biz now are employees, partners, or new owners and of course it would be good to know that.
We cannot demand that he answer our questions, he's sick.
He (and we) cannot demand the presence of his existing management either, it's not like we can subpoena them or anything. Should they address these issues? Undoubtedly. Whether they will or not is not up to us, or to Chris. My only point is that he be left in peace to recover the best he can; I certainly do not want to close off discussion of this matter at all since there are plainly people who are not getting their critters shipped to them..

I agree. I think we can both agree that if someone does not answer the questions, than he is effectively doing permanent harm to his business. Its not up to me to make him answer for this or ask someone else to but people who feel wronged deserve some sort of response.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

a rather remarkable episode

in the never ending Herp business. Here is a person who sends money to a business, makes out arrangements to have the animals shipped, finds out that one of the principles is no longer affiliated with the buisness, and that the animals have not been sent, that the people who are running the business are to busy to respond, that the former employer is to ill to oversee his business and has basically bowed out of the operation. .............

and we expect the buyer to be patient.! Heres the solution, cancel the order, find a supplier who is healthy and present at his business operation, and finally if you have to find an attorney................because this is going to lead into a financial loss on your part unless you protect your interests, (which you seem to be doing by coming here to the BOI)

This type of business method of providing excuses and bowing out is really unacceptable. If Top Shelf would declare insolvency, that would be one thing, but when one of the principles no longer is willing to accept any responsibility, then thats another more malevolent sign that has to be addressed. The bottom line............they have your money, GET IT BACK and move on as quickly as possible.

 

[Ian S.]

I also tried to purchase animal from TSE and waited supposedly for the weather to be ok. Well after two months of no word I finally made a post about having to wait and not being contacted at all. Come to find out the place is located in NY and I'm right here in MA. Weather conditions were absolutely perfect. I was however promptly given a refund after going public. The guy (Chris) @ top shelf exotics then turns around and says he couldn't ship due to himself catching pneumonia which I full well believe, and stated that I was insulting his hard working employees by going public so ummmm yeah why didn't the employees ship it? Chris however is very knowledgeable and I would say he has great animals but have never seen any in person. After reading this inquiry unfortunately I would have to scream con-artist.

 

[Ian S.]

Just for the record this was last year.

 

[jasballs]

I think he is out of the picture, he as much as said so. I do not know whether those running the biz now are employees, partners, or new owners and of course it would be good to know that.
We cannot demand that he answer our questions, he's sick.
He (and we) cannot demand the presence of his existing management either, it's not like we can subpoena them or anything. Should they address these issues? Undoubtedly. Whether they will or not is not up to us, or to Chris. My only point is that he be left in peace to recover the best he can; I certainly do not want to close off discussion of this matter at all since there are plainly people who are not getting their critters shipped to them..

How is he (Chris@TSE) out of the picture. When He (Chris@TSE) is still the owner? He has responded a few times to this thread already. Cant He (Chris@TSE) tell his employees, partners, or new owners to respond??
If they are employees I'd give them the boot! If they are partners I'd look for some new freinds! If they are New owners I would never buy from them!!

 

[shrap]

The bottom line............they have your money, GET IT BACK and move on as quickly as possible.

I wish it were that simple Jerry. My friend who has been waiting since November, she was flat out refused a refund by the current management of TSE. I am not putting any of this off on Chris. I would still recommend him if he ever decides to return to the reptile biz, but what is going on currently at TSE is completely unethical at best.

 

[jglass38]

How is he (Chris@TSE) out of the picture. When He (Chris@TSE) is still the owner? He has responded a few times to this thread already. Cant He (Chris@TSE) tell his employees, partners, or new owners to respond??
If they are employees I'd give them the boot! If they are partners I'd look for some new freinds! If they are New owners I would never buy from them!!

No doubt! Good points Jas.

 

[SPJ]

It sounds to me like the reputation that Chris built is being destroyed by the employees running things in his absence.
I would have never hesitated to buy from TSE when Chris was there but based upon the way the business is currently being run, I would have to stay away.
If a customer is unhappy about waiting (I don't buy this too cold excuse because I have shipped many animals over the years in the dead of winter from the Northeast and never had a DOA) and the "new TSE" isn't keeping the customer informed, a full refund is in order.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

well, guess what folks

once you see this type of a situation occur,you can only expect it to go downhill from here. I would like to know who are the principles of the business, is it a legal business or corporation and who is actually responsible! Secondly, its very convenient for an employer to absolve himself of any liability and leave the burdon of these liabillities on the remaining partners, or whatever you want to call them. When does one person no longer become involved in a business that apparently is having some financial problems. Who bears the responsiblity of providing the service, refunding the money, etc.

Their are some real issues here that need to be addressed. These monies should be refunded and if Chris is no longer affiliated with Top Shelf at this time, or is contemplating some return in the future, he should provide some leadership and resolve this as quickly as possible. The fact that he is not well, is unfortuante, but mortgages still have to be paid, and life does go on.

 

[Ian S.]

Chris used to post regularly on this site but hasn't now for several months.

I have several stories like yours recently where snakes were paid for awaiting shipment and even though the weather is OK now to ship, they still have not received anything.

I know he was injured at one point and that may have caused a backlog but his employees should be filling the orders in his absence.

I would be demanding a refund unless at this point. Waiting all this time and still not getting a firm ship date would concern me as well.

Have you given them a choice of either ship in the next week or issue a full refund?

ahh yes here it is in black and white. Same scenario as mine just with a gecko and not a snake. Very sad and unfortunate, and again this took place last year.

 

[reptilebreeder]

I wish it were that simple Jerry. My friend who has been waiting since November, she was flat out refused a refund by the current management of TSE. I am not putting any of this off on Chris. I would still recommend him if he ever decides to return to the reptile biz, but what is going on currently at TSE is completely unethical at best.

I could be wrong, but I believe the OP for this thread also stated he talked about a refund, and the reply was it was against TOS. Are you kidding me? Buy something-don't receive it, but it is against our TOS to give you your money back, especially if it was November (in your friends case)? Well, IMHOO, I believe yet another former "good guy/business" has hit the slippery slope. It's one thing to not expect your money back if you put down an advance deposit on future offspring, but when you pay for an item that they say they have, and yet they still haven't bothered to ship it, that is a rip-off. Thing is, you apparently don't even know you're being ripped-off, because they don't bother with keeping in contact with their customers, until after the customer is pissed off (and the honey has turned into vinegar), then they say "you are rude". Hello, rude is having a number of customers pay for a product, that by all reasonable expections should have been delivered, a time ago. Rude is not communicating with your customers.

A lot of people will probably think I'm an , and that Chris/TSE has such a good rep, that I should cut some slack....well, normally I would agree, but in this case it appears to be quite a large number of incidents, as opposed to an "innocent mistake". Let's hope everybody is getting their 05's that they paid for ASAP.