Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[joepythons]

yes

I'll bet that if any, those ones turn out positive hets unless he is completely ignorant. Anyone know if any of this TSE case has been talked about or brought foward on other forums??

I know for a fact that the members and myself on ball-pythons .net have been talking about it so members are aware of it.I also made a sticky on herptrader about this so the word is getting around.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Well, I would have to agree, BUT ..

Originally Posted by Ian S.
I'll bet that if any, those ones turn out positive hets unless he is completely ignorant.

The key words are "if any", and if most of the hets are a hoax, I would venture it most likely that all are a hoax. I am not characterizing Chris as ignorant, and like so many have stated, have only mounds of intuition saying that Chris did scam hets until some solid results come in. To cross the line to sell false hets is a very cold-blooded and short-sighted decision. But once crossed, I don't think it makes exemptions for anybody. As oft stated, I hope I am wrong, and despite all of Chris's actions that I feel were wrong without regard to the het situation, will owe him an apology right here if some start proving out. Then I will resume beating him over the head for ripping off all the other folks.

 

[Ian S.]

I only say ignorance due to the fact that Bob Clark is a python breeding machine, and would easily figure the genetics true or false hets!!

 

[shep151]

I only say ignorance due to the fact that Bob Clark is a python breeding machine, and would easily figure the genetics true or false hets!!

I don't see how this is related, since Clark only acted as the shipping agent for that sale, if I read it correctly.

 

[Casey Hulse]

Do you have any idea of the time frame on this at all? Like last week, last year....? Adult animals or babies?

They were 2004 Het for Albino Balls it could have been anywhere from August to December in 2004.he deleted all of those emails so he has no exact date.

 

[DSsuper92]

We've had one breeder come on here and say that they've sold normals to TSE. Has anybody heard from any other breeder that has sold morphs or het morphs to TSE? I'm thinking about sending a mass email to the major breeders/distributors to see if they have so if anybody has any info that would be beneficial now. Like I said before I feel this does have a huge impact on our community. It would be great if everybody was forthcoming.

Later,
David Schroeder

 

[Nate]

Add my name to the list of scammed...

Chris Johnson from TSE owes me $545.00 for a trio of Hogg Island Boas that I purchased from him on March 10 of this year. Here is a history of the email exchanges with Chris/Pat/Glenn and myself (please, scroll down to the bottom and begin there):



4/24/06

Hello Pat,

I haven't heard from you or the TSE gang in almost three weeks and it is going on six weeks since my purchase. I can understand weather, Chris being out , and you guys being swamped, however, a little communication goes a long ways. I am an active member on the forums (Fauna & Kingsnake) and the amount of customers complaining is making me anxious about this purchase. I need to know if you guys have a time frame in mind. I am out of town this coming week, however, I would like to know if you are going to be shipping in the first couple weeks of May? Otherwise, I need to pursue a refund or I will contest payments through Paypal or my credit card, which ever applies in this situation. I don't understand how you can expect customers who spend this kind of money to sit quiet and wait to be contacted at some undefined time frame in the future. I am sorry if I come across as rude, but this is really frustrating. Please, let me know. Thank you.

Nate Oswald


4/05/06
Hello Nate! Good to hear from you!



Yes, unfortunately due to the relentless winter we became a bit more backlogged with orders than we had anticipated. In previous winters we have grown accustomed to being graced with three or four day pleasant enough to ship. This winter however gave us nothing, literally.



Weather thankfully has started to improve and we were actually able to fill an entire fedex truck last week with our first day of shipping since late 05! You should have seen the drivers expression, our representative went as far as calling us the following day to request we limit outgoing parcels in a given day to allow their other scheduled pickups room on the truck J



We are not completely out of the woods just yet. Mother Nature twisted the knife so to speak recently. This very evening for example we are experiencing an overnight low in the mid twenties. We even saw a bit of snow today. It will be hit or miss for a little longer but I’m happy to say we should be able to catch up and get everyone taken care of here shortly.



As previously instructed we’ll be sure to contact you prior to shipment as we do not ship blind. We try to avoid the chance a package is left unattended and require customers to be present and sign for our deliveries.



Thanks so very much for your patience and understanding. We appreciate any grey hairs encountered in result of the delays we experience. Some may believe otherwise, apparently they have not considered or had to pay the hefty bills encountered while housing and feeding hundreds of animals that have already sold. J



We are blessed to have such exceptional clientel. Thanks again, we hope to speak with you again soon. Have a great day.



pat



Sales Department

TopShelfExotics.com / LeoMorphs.com

Email: [email protected]



VISIT THE NEW TSE FORUMS!

http://forums.topshelfexotic.com

MESSAGE BOARDS, CLASSIFIEDS, LIVE REPTILE CHAT, PHOTO GALLERIES, AND MORE!










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From: Nate Oswald [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 12:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 2005 Hogg Island Boas



Greetings,



I am hoping that I can get an update on my order, please? I haven't heard from anyone in over two weeks. I've had orders come and go from the Northeast and I know there have been periods of acceptable temps. Are you guys backed up with orders? Please, let me know it has been almost a month since my purchase. Thanks!



Nate Oswald

----- Original Message -----

From: Top Shelf Exotics

To: 'Nate Oswald'

Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:56 AM

Subject: RE: 2005 Hogg Island Boas



Overnights show we will be in the twenties still. As we stated previously we will contact you when overnight temps improve to arrange a delivery date. We are unable to ship and guarantee safe healthy arrival until overnight temps improve, its simply too risky. The moment overnights improve you will be contacted to select a date and confirm your shipping address and other details. Hope all is well, ‘till then…



glenn

Sales Department


Email: [email protected]



Winter shipments may experience delays due to weather conditions to ensure safety,

we ask that customers read and understand our terms of sale before placing an order.

http://topshelfexotic.com/terms.htm



VISIT THE NEW TSE FORUMS!



MESSAGE BOARDS, CLASSIFIEDS, IMAGE GALLERIES, AND MORE!



This message and any attachments accompanying this transmission may contain privileged and/or confidential information and is intended solely for the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended addressee/recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited and may result in legal action against you. Thank you.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nate Oswald [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 6:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



Hi,



Please let me know if you can ship the trio of Hoggs this coming Wednesday for Thursday delivery. My temps are highs in the mid forties and lows in the mid thirties. If your local conditions aren't acceptable then please let me know and we can look at another day. Thanks!




This is glenn, just wanted to make sure you got our email so I sent numerous duplicates J



ttys



Sales Department


Email: [email protected]



Winter shipments may experience delays due to weather conditions to ensure safety,

we ask that customers read and understand our terms of sale before placing an order.

http://topshelfexotic.com/terms.htm



VISIT THE NEW TSE FORUMS!



MESSAGE BOARDS, CLASSIFIEDS, IMAGE GALLERIES, AND MORE!



This message and any attachments accompanying this transmission may contain privileged and/or confidential information and is intended solely for the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended addressee/recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited and may result in legal action against you. Thank you.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nate Oswald [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 12:55 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



I just received 7 of the same messages that you just sent. Thank you for being so thorough.. I am positive that there were no messages in my Spam or junk mail previously as I check it religiously since I converse with several vendors/businesses on a regular basis and I have a few on-going transactions. Thanks for the speedy response and I would appreciate it if you would inform me of who I am exchanging emails with? Thank you.



Nate Oswald

----- Original Message -----

From: Top Shelf Exotics

To: 'Nate Oswald'

Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 12:30 AM

Subject: RE: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



A reply was written and you were told we could not ship due to weather condition, check with us on Tuesday as we will then be able to check forecasts to see if conditions will be improved. Also please add us to a “safe list” so our messages are not directed as spam or junk mail.



Sales Department


Email: [email protected]



Winter shipments may experience delays due to weather conditions to ensure safety,

we ask that customers read and understand our terms of sale before placing an order.

http://topshelfexotic.com/terms.htm



VISIT THE NEW TSE FORUMS!



MESSAGE BOARDS, CLASSIFIEDS, IMAGE GALLERIES, AND MORE!



This message and any attachments accompanying this transmission may contain privileged and/or confidential information and is intended solely for the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended addressee/recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited and may result in legal action against you. Thank you.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nate Oswald [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 12:26 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fw: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



To whom it may concern,



I was expecting a response as to whether you could ship on the day requested or not (maybe due to weather conditions?). This lack of communication worries me as I need to have the animals shipped for delivery on specific days as I work a full time job during the day. The next day I can receive shipment is Thursday the 24th. Please, let me know if this date will work. If it doesn't work I need to be notified as well. Thank you for your time.



Nate Oswald





----- Original Message -----

From: Nate Oswald

To: [email protected]

Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:02 PM

Subject: Re: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



Hi,



I am emailing to see whether my package was shipped today for Wednesday delivery. Please, let me know. Thank you.



Nate Oswald



----- Original Message -----

From: Top Shelf Exotics

To: 'Nate Oswald'

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 1:37 PM

Subject: RE: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



Payment confirmed.



As long as weather here cooperates this should be no problem, have a fantastic day.



Sales Department


Email: [email protected]



Winter shipments may experience delays due to weather conditions to ensure safety,

we ask that customers read and understand our terms of sale before placing an order.

http://topshelfexotic.com/terms.htm



VISIT THE NEW TSE FORUMS!



MESSAGE BOARDS, CLASSIFIEDS, IMAGE GALLERIES, AND MORE!



This message and any attachments accompanying this transmission may contain privileged and/or confidential information and is intended solely for the addressee(s) named above. If you are not the intended addressee/recipient, you are hereby notified that any use of, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on the contents of this message is strictly prohibited and may result in legal action against you. Thank you.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nate Oswald [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 11:41 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



I've just sent payment in the amount of $545 shipped for the 1.2 F1 Hogg Islands via my Paypal account.



If possible, I need for the trio to be shipped on Tuesday for Wednesday receiving. My shipping address is on my Paypal payment:





Please, respond that you received payment and if you can ship on the day requested.



Thank you.



Nate Oswald

----- Original Message -----

From: TSE

To: 'Nate Oswald'

Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 2:10 AM

Subject: RE: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



$175ea, 165ea in the trio. Reduced pricing on the trio would bring your purchase to $545 shipped payable via paypal at [email protected]



Take care



Sales Department

TopShelfExotics.com / LeoMorphs.com

Email: [email protected]



VISIT THE NEW TSE FORUMS!

http://forums.topshelfexotic.com

MESSAGE BOARDS, CLASSIFIEDS, LIVE REPTILE CHAT, PHOTO GALLERIES, AND MORE!










--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nate Oswald [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 1:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



Thanks for the quick response. Do you discount for the purchase of multiple animals? I am interested in this trio.



Nate Oswald

----- Original Message -----

From: TSE

To: 'Nate Oswald'

Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 8:13 PM

Subject: RE: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



1.2 remain as of this message



Sales Department

TopShelfExotics.com / LeoMorphs.com

Email: [email protected]



VISIT THE NEW TSE FORUMS!

http://forums.topshelfexotic.com

MESSAGE BOARDS, CLASSIFIEDS, LIVE REPTILE CHAT, PHOTO GALLERIES, AND MORE!










--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nate Oswald [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2006 7:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: 2005 Hogg Island Boas, Awesome! $175 EACH!



Hi,



I'm interested to know if you have 2.2 quanitity of the Hogg Boas that you have listed on the Kingsnake classifieds. Please, let me know if you have that quantity available so I can make a payment. Thank you.



Nate Oswald

 

[varnyard]

Yet another!! Chris, you care to comment?

Nate, did you get anything from Chris at all? If not how long has he kept your money?

 

[The BoidSmith]

With that kind of bad luck with the weather they better have every animal born, bred, and comfy in their facility all year round. If not it's difficult to explain how their suppliers could ship them animals regularly, whereas they are unable to do so.

 

[ravensgait]

This is what happens when you rent space at the Ice Cream factory, it's cold every night. I wonder how long he could have played the "it's to cold" game if Bob hadn't started this thread.

I wonder how many more are out in the cold waiting on Chris to ship to them...Randy

 

[Cat_72]

Well, welcome to our sad club, Nate. Thanks for coming forward.

It appears that they stopped all communication with you right about the time this whole thread began....go figure.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

When you stop and think about the amount of time and wasteful effort in sending lengthy emails about his life threatning illness, and his weather related nonsense and how paypal was going to be his saviour. Its so obviously a wall of veils that I am surprised that he lasted this long.

 

[tejasranger]

Hey Derek,
When you talk to the lawyer next time ask him about Jenna Salters (-ex) homeowners insurance. When Chris registered his DBA, he gave the business address as 812 French Rd. #6, which is her address. There should be more than enough money in her policy.

 

[SVT Snake]

The address is for Queens Park Apartments according to USPS. I'll see what I can find out.

 

[Ian S.]

I don't see how this is related, since Clark only acted as the shipping agent for that sale, if I read it correctly.

Ahh...OK sorry about that, I misunderstood. I thought what was stated, was that he had sent Bob Clark some hets for himself. (himself, being Bob Clark) LOL....I couldn't understand where the international shipping part came in so my puny little mind just excluded that portion of the statement. In actuality Bob Clark just shipped supposed hets over sea's for Chris correct?? If that is the case someone may want to send good ol' Bob C. a link to this thread... no?? What a shame it would be for his stellar reputation to be dampenned by an instance such as this. Not to mention I'm positive that he wouldn't hesitate to give those customers a call. I don't mean to over emphasise the importance , however it's another lead that may want to be followed up.

 

[viridisnakes]

Another case of......

Here we go again with the line "as of this message we have 1.2 blah blah blah left."

It appears that this is his reply for everything he sells. Just another form of deception. Is his entire life a big lie?

I still think it would be a good idea if we all compare when we bought the last one of something. It will show a high level of theft by deception, which is a felony criminal offense.

Sorry to hear about your case to Nate. Charge back through your CC and Paypal ASAP. TSE is not going to deliver anything but more lies, decepetion and heartache. The liar again stated there were no days that met temps this winter. Another bold face lie. There were upwards of 20 days between Jan and April that met their TOS.

Chris Rouille
Bought last female Het Clown BP 1/17/06

 

[saltwaterreptiles]

I still love this disclaimer on TSE's TOS....

" Orders are legally binding contracts. When placing an order you confirm that you have read, fully understand, and agree to these terms of sale. You also agree to pay all expenses including legal fees, court costs, and attorney wages paid by the seller when attempting to collect on a breech of these terms. We will not be held responsible for customers who wish to ignore our terms of sale. All sales are final."

Specially the "...we will not be held responsible for customers who wish to ignore our terms of sale."

What about being held responsible for ignoring your OWN terms of sale???

 

[Chameleon Company]

Cory and others,

I for one appreciate the continuing tidbits that you folks have been bringing to the thread, as if ever there was a thread that deserved a long run at the top, this one qualifies. This part of your quote of Chris's TSE deserves a second look by those new to legalese:

You also agree to pay all expenses including legal fees, court costs, and attorney wages paid by the seller when attempting to collect on a breech of these terms.

TOS written as this unfortunately do intimidate some who think that because something is written, it must therefor be so. The layman's explanation of this is that any TOS or lease or contract that contradicts legal statutes such as the UCC and other local and state law are null and void, in part or in total. A second reading of the above makes it almost laughable, as he seems to be saying that if he violates his own TOS, you pick up his legal bills attempting to collect! While this post will soon be buried in this mountainous thread, my strong advice to all, especially those newer to the hobby, would be that whenever you see anything in the TOS that is of questionable legal merit, but also so contemptuous of the customer as this is, take your business elsewhere.

 

[Scott Ashton]

All of this talk about weather made me curious.

Here is summary information from NOAA's website for the Buffalo area for April 2006:


April Temperature Summary

THE AVERAGE TEMPERATURE OF 48.0 WAS NEARLY THREE DEGREES ABOVE
NORMAL AND ENOUGH TO GIVE US THE WARMEST APRIL IN 12 YEARS. NO
RECORD TEMPERATURES WERE SET...ALTHOUGH THE MERCURY DID REACH THE
70S ON SIX OCCASIONS. APRIL WAS THE 10TH MONTH IN THE PAST 11 TO BE
WARMER THAN NORMAL.

BUFFALO`S APRIL STATISTICS FOLLOW...

TEMPERATURE DATA
AVERAGE MAXIMUM............ 57.9
AVERAGE MINIMUM............ 38.0
AVERAGE MONTHLY............ 48.0
DEPARTURE FROM NORMAL...... PLUS 2.7
HIGHEST.................... 78 ON 21ST
LOWEST..................... 27 ON 5TH, 9TH

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Has anybody heard from any other breeder that has sold morphs or het morphs to TSE? I'm thinking about sending a mass email to the major breeders/distributors to see if they have so if anybody has any info that would be beneficial now.

Has anyone talked to Alex Hue about this yet?