Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[nicolai]

seems to either ignore the fact or does not seem to understand the basic premise when monies are sent in advance. Communicate ! Take a close look at Chris's original explanation where he clearly had decided to cease taking responsibility of his own operation while he was convalescing!!!!!!

To make matters worse, he provides this explanation on the BOI as a legitimate excuse. Call it what you want, its a lousy way to do business. The most important thing in this industry Nicholai is to insure that the person who is paying you in advance is getting the service he is entitled to with a quick response, and an intellegent explanation if their is a problem. Certainly not allot to ask for. Its inexcusable to keep people in limbo, and without question very unprofessional, which I am sure you would not like to be on the receiving end if you paid in advance. You can bet your bottom dollar, that their will be allot of changes if and when Chris resumes, or changes his TOS in order to keep his operation from dwindling in sales. People are patient , but their is a limit to their patience. The worst thing you can do is to keep people in the dark.

Jerry, let me first say that was an excellent post. Everything you said is true. i wont argue any of it with you. Chris did state he will be changing his TOS, so that problem will be solved. People shouldn't be kept in limbo when their money is in someone Else's hand and their customer service needs an improvement which i think they are working on.
My only argument with you was your post about them bleeding internally and take your business elsewhere. Take a step back a reread that post to yourself and decide whether you think that is a valid way to describe them. People will read that statement and think they are worse off then they are and take their business elsewhere. Now if tejasranger got his animals and weostan gets his and all the posters on this thread are content then what? Are they still bleeding internally or did they get the surgery they needed and are in the recovery room?

weostan - that was a good analogy and a good way to make a point. In the future though don't let another member talk you into posting on the BOI. I am sure things will work out fine for you.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Nicholas, let me provide

an explanation as to why I may appear to have a "zero tolerance" for these situations. This business that we are both in is an open ended abyss that draws sometimes the worst possible predators into the herp field for a quick buck. As quickly as they appear, they disapear only to possibly resurface with a new face and name sporting the same old hook just waiting to find another bait. The BOI has a graveyard of to many people who have lost money for no reason other than doing the unimaginable...........giving total strangers money in advance for the risk of getting some animals based purely on good faith. In no other industry that I can think of, with no protection afforded the buyer is the loss so considerable as the herp industry.

We deal in an unlicenced venue with no restraits. Steal whatever you can, whenever you can for as long as you can. Fortunately, we are in the age of quick communications where we can at least let others know that we have to be careful with so and so. This is a great step forward, and I am grateful that the BOI has participated in its share of keeping people abreast of problems in our industry. Well what does this have to do with TSE !


My argument is simple Nicholas. Had this not been brought to the BOI, how much longer and how many payments in advance would have continued before the boiling point would have erupted into litigation. It would have been more beneficial for Chris to provide refunds or not accept any additonal business until their internal problems were resolved before dealing with external problems such as new customers, etc.

How do you continue to take monies from people who have no idea as to the viability of the business when no communications is provided after monies have been given to a shipper. What worse situations could you possibly ask for! In effect TSE created their own monster, an internal failure to provide the basic necessities of any business. To secure theyr own credibility. Time to get off the soap box, but I just wanted you to understand that I dont doubt Chris's sincerity, but until they clean up their own internal problems they should not take any additional monies in advance, until their course has been defined properly, with some smooth sailings ahead. JERRY

 

[groovygeckos]

Just to clarify

Hey everyone, well I was just reading here and am noticing my name. I know what Ian is talking about, I think he is just trying to point out Chris` less than perfect behavior.

See here After this whole thing in the Leo forum Chris made a post in the BOI here, and WAS making defamatory comments in that forum about parasites, in regards to our animals.

In the Mack "Drama" thread, he brought up a personal email I sent him. It was sent ONLY to ask him about any possible problems w/ his Snow from Alex. I had a fecal done and the vet was saying this one single animal had a parasite, and sure enough my only interest was to find out if it came along w/ the gecko I had just shelled out $1250 for. He decided he would use this against me in the thread I posted above. But then there were some comments made about "infected colonies", and "I know (so and so) wouldnt take a chance of infecting their colonies" in the Leo forum in a further attempt to inflict harm. Im seriously not going to go dig through hundreds of threads to quote it, but many of the Leo-forum people know this all very well.

I mean I had one single gecko w/ a parasite that was allready being treated and was never introduced to my entire collection. I set him up w/ a few females, and quaranteened that whole group from the others. So the things he was saying were way out of line.

Chris, all of the BS aside, I do hope you get better.

Dan Poe

 

[reptilebreeder]

. Take a step back a reread that post to yourself and decide whether you think that is a valid way to describe them. People will read that statement and think they are worse off then they are and take their business elsewhere.

So? What's your point?
He has as much right to feel that way, as you do to attack virtually everybody on here who has posted something (against your mentor?). You may say he is over reacting, well, there are some who feel you are "under reacting" that it is no big deal that someone sent money 5 months ago, and still haven't received animals, and then got rude responses, and a denial of refund request, by hiding behind an irrelevent part of a TOS. Sure maybe they finally got refunded, but it was a direct result of this thread, which is a good and proper use of the BOI, whatever you may think with all your post that are poping up all over, in the guise of "just wondering" when in fact it appears to me, that they are "loaded" polls and "sound offs" completely related to this thread.
Now you are jumping on someone else, because you feel he posted to soon. That's also a matter of opinion. He may get his animals that he paid for in a timely manner, but he posted that he felt that "he wished he would have seen the thread before he ordered" and that is a valid reason to post, and to change your mind, or at least wish you hadn't made the order. Contrary to your "rabid" replies, and defense of Chris' honor or business, there is enough ethical lapses, rudeness, questionable business practices, poor communication, etc. for many people to decide to take their business elsewhere, or to post things you don't like. Just my own opinion.

 

[tejasranger]

weostan - that was a good analogy and a good way to make a point. In the future though don't let another member talk you into posting on the BOI. I am sure things will work out fine for you.

I am puzzled. A few posts back you asked weostan if he had been influenced to post on this thread by another menber. Then in this post you seem to confirm that he had indeed been influenced to post, with your warning that this should be avoided in the future? Did I miss something? Or did you just decide it was true? And what is wrong, if someone did suggest it? Is that a violation of some unspoken policy? I find it a bit unusual that you of all people would be counciling someone to avoid outside influences, when that is exactly what you are doing with your incesant posts with cheerleading about how people should overlook the short-comings of TSE. Friendship is admirable, but not to where it replaces common sense.

 

[Cat_72]

I am puzzled. A few posts back you asked weostan if he had been influenced to post on this thread by another menber. Then in this post you seem to confirm that he had indeed been influenced to post, with your warning that this should be avoided in the future? Did I miss something? Or did you just decide it was true? And what is wrong, if someone did suggest it? Is that a violation of some unspoken policy? I find it a bit unusual that you of all people would be counciling someone to avoid outside influences, when that is exactly what you are doing with your incesant posts with cheerleading about how people should overlook the short-comings of TSE. Friendship is admirable, but not to where it replaces common sense.

Bob, he was referring to "weostan" being influenced to post here, in his opinion. Not you.

Did your package arrive? I thought I may have missed you posting about it.

 

[nicolai]

1) Weostan was told by another member to post here to get his animals faster (fact).
2) Bob got his animals (fact)
3) Jason got his animals (fact)
4) Did you get your animals?
5) the mack snow fiasco between chris/Alex/Dan poe has nothing to due with this thread (fact)
6) I never attacked Weostan, I made a suggestion (fact)

Weostan - you have brought your issue to the BOI and you ordered your animals less then a week ago, dont you think thats a bit premature?

weostan - that was a good analogy and a good way to make a point. In the future though don't let another member talk you into posting on the BOI. I am sure things will work out fine for you.

Theres my two statements to Weostan,Wheres the attack? I thought i was rather polite.

7) Robert,Your remark about cheerleading..Please... I am dong what i think is right. Trying to get people to stick to the facts without all the flare and drama. (FACT)

8) TSE is behind in their shipments as well as suffering from some poor communication with their customers (FACT)

9) Not one person on this thread has been ripped off by TSE (FACT)

8) Not one person on this thread knows of anyone that TSE has ever ripped off (FACT)

9) TSE said they were going to change their TOS for better clarification (FACT)

10) TSE said they are shipping out as fast as they can to get caught up (FACT)

11) people are now worrying more about my presence on this thread then the facts of the thread (FACT)

There is nothing worse then kicking a guy when they are down. Here you have people wanting to shoot him/them while they are down. Due to an illness (CHRIS) a company suffered as a result of it but are trying to make things right, yet instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt and a little encouragement everyone is looking to lay them out to pasture. They don't have a history of bad dealings, its just the opposite, so why is everyone so gung ho to persecute them? I assure you they will overcome this adversity as all good companies do and they will learn from it I am sure.
I have not denied or defended TSE for anything that people posted that was factual. The facts are the facts thats it. Its all the presumption (the bleeding internally) and stuff like that that i just cant sit back and not say anything about.
So please quit worrying why or why not i am on this thread and stick to the FACTS of the thread. Were you ripped off by TSE John? Have you ever dealt with TSE John?

 

[ravensgait]

11) people are now worrying more about my presence on this thread then the facts of the thread (FACT)

Nicolai, I think what some are trying to tell you is that you are being way over zealous in your defense of Chris. He's being treated far kinder than anyone else would be in this situation so get of the kicking the guy when he's down bit. And I hate to say this but if I didn't know you for an upstanding guy through this forum I'd wonder what your getting paid.

Go back and read Chris's first few post he claims no responsibility for any of this and threatens to get those who give him a bad time in this thread. Gee maybe that wouldn't bother you Nicolai but it seemed to get a few people riled up especially those who gave him money.. Then Chris shows a change and wants to get this taken care and now people are getting there animals.

This seems to have been an on going problem more than one person has stated that they had the same problem last year. So it seems that bringing it to the BOI was more than justified to get something done about this. And whoa and behold those who came here and complained are getting taken care of.

It's simple TSE did a bad thing to the pooch and if this is the only way to get them to change then so be it . This Problem with TSE is what the BOI is for, sure there is the usual BS(far less than there used to be) It brought a number of unresolved problems out for all to see. Nicolai if you don't see this thread as being deserved then ya need to do some real thinking. Randy

 

[kmurphy]

1) Weostan was told by another member to post here to get his animals faster (fact).

In your own words Nicolai - please provide proof

Not that it really matters. However, you seem to be concerned with unsubstantiated statements. You've made this one several times as if it is something important. However, I haven't read where Weostan backs this up or anyone else for that matter.

I am hopefull that Chris and TSE will ultimately come out of this just fine. For you to act as is there are no grounds for dissatisfaction is a little disingenuous. Let's just say public relations is not your strong point.

 

[Junkyard]

I had suggested to Stan to participate here, being that Chris was active, it was possible he would receive his animals faster.

Maybe you need to participate in the TSE thread, you may get your animals sooner:

I did not tell him to, nor did I force him to. It was not known by me how long Stan had been waiting for his animals. Though there seems to be a trend that TSE was not communicating with their customers. Thus it is a logical suggestion as he also had been waiting without much contact from TSE.

 

[Bill & Amy]

1) Weostan was told by another member to post here to get his animals faster (fact).

So, what is your point? Did they communicate to him that they are behind and would be a delay in his shipping? If not, then he has every reason to be here.

11) people are now worrying more about my presence on this thread then the facts of the thread (FACT)

The reason some people think that is most BOI threads are satified when the people come here explain and defend themselves. Here is a quote from you at the beginning of this thread.

I am in no way involved in the business side of TSE and am not privy to any personal or business information that may indeed help in any way on this thread.

 

[shrap]

1)There is nothing worse then kicking a guy when they are down. Here you have people wanting to shoot him/them while they are down.

I am somewhat amazed that you see it like this, Nicolai. While ONE person on this thread did indeed use this as an opportunity to take cheap shots, everyone else here has had legitimate complaints. TSE is being treated no different than any other person/company would be under the same circumstances.

When a buyer has made every reasonable attempt to resolve a situation with a seller, but there has been a complete communication break down on the sellers behalf, or what little communication that does come through is completely unacceptable to the buyer, then what is a buyer to do? So no one is kicking TSE while they are down, people are just wanting to be treated fairly or wanting their money back. Neither of which they were able to get accomplished by communicating directly with TSE. That is why these people are here. Not to kick someone while they are down.

I for one am truly sorry that Chris and TSE are in this position, as I am sure most of the people here are. No one wanted them to run into troubles, no one wanted to see a thread like this about a guy/company that has done so many charitable things and been such an excellent representative of the reptile industry. But the facts of the matter did justify this thread being here.

Also, I would like to report that after 5 months my friend did get her snake this morning. Thank you TSE for slowly but surely getting things taken care of. I hope we have all learned a lesson from Chris' misfortune on how to better handle things when unfortunate and unexpected circumstances happen.

 

[nicolai]

Also, I would like to report that after 5 months my friend did get her snake this morning. Thank you TSE for slowly but surely getting things taken care of..

Glad to hear your friend also got her animals Shrap.

I hope we have all learned a lesson from Chris' misfortune on how to better handle things when unfortunate and unexpected circumstances happen.

Lets hope so.

 

[weostan]

Nicolai i dint have a problem with waiting for animals, just with customer service. I'll send u a PM to explain why, in the intest of not kicking a man when he's down. i never expected that posting on this forum would expedite my shipment. i just needed to vent my frustration, for with out this forum i would have already pulled my order. like i said i coincede i am extremely impatient. especially when i am so looking forward to keeping ball pythons again.

 

[tejasranger]

Nicolai, You're a moderator?

1) Weostan was told by another member to post here to get his animals faster (fact).

Where is your proof of this?

6) I never attacked Weostan, I made a suggestion (fact)

Theres my two statements to Weostan,Wheres the attack? I thought i was rather polite.

Where did I say anything about you attacking anyone? Why don't carefully read the posts before you reply?

7) Robert,Your remark about cheerleading..Please... I am dong what i think is right. Trying to get people to stick to the facts without all the flare and drama. (FACT)

Oh, like your comments about someone being told to post on this thread to get his snakes faster. Without providing proof of same? A little hypocritical from where I stand.

11) people are now worrying more about my presence on this thread then the facts of the thread (FACT)

Overinflated sense of self-importance? (FACT)

There is nothing worse then kicking a guy when they are down. Here you have people wanting to shoot him/them while they are down. Due to an illness (CHRIS) a company suffered as a result of it but are trying to make things right, yet instead of giving them the benefit of the doubt and a little encouragement everyone is looking to lay them out to pasture. They don't have a history of bad dealings, its just the opposite, so why is everyone so gung ho to persecute them? I assure you they will overcome this adversity as all good companies do and they will learn from it I am sure.
I have not denied or defended TSE for anything that people posted that was factual. The facts are the facts thats it. Its all the presumption (the bleeding internally) and stuff like that that i just cant sit back and not say anything about.
So please quit worrying why or why not i am on this thread and stick to the FACTS of the thread. Were you ripped off by TSE John? Have you ever dealt with TSE John?

Empathetic Persecution complex? (FACT)

 

[viridisnakes]

More TSE questions from customer

Does any one have an answer to the following questions..

I think the most important question which has not been answered is.....

Does TSE breed all the Ball Python Morphs they sell?
Who has seen their collection? Albino, Caramels, Clowns, etc. Have you seen clutches and eggs in their incubator? Do the animals they have seem to support the number of animals they are stating are being sold? Hundreds?

They have been selling these morphs for at least a couple years, can any breeder confirm that they sold a High Contrast Albino, Clown or any high end morph to Chris Johnson of TSE that would lend creadence that they are the breeders of the morphs being sold? I ask this as this has been asked so many times with no response, I would like to at least see a "round about" attempt way to answer.

With every thing that has transpired it would seem awefully prudent for TSE or Chris to respond with some proof.

Has any one else requested the following before and after purchase:
1. Pictures of the baby(s) they have purchased
2. Pictures of the adults (parents)
3. Hatch Date of animal purchased
4. Current weight of the animal purchased

Does any one here, customer or supplier feel that these are unreasonable requests?
Does anyone feel that this is essentially needed/required in the sale of HET ball pythons!

If this info is requested over a three month period and not supplied..What would most people construe this behaviour? I mean these are many $1000s snakes, not hatchling veiled chameleons

A google search of these questions will reveal at least two other threads on other sites with this concern. I also will state that the follow up quotes were exactly the same as here on the BOI, basically "TSE has a great reputation don't be questioning?"

For anyone else who made an inquirey about BP morphs...
what was the initial response? Was it something like this...
"yes we still have X.X 100% XXXX het ball pythons left, we are in negotiations with another party for these so please check with us before ordering. I have seen this in two other threads.

Did any one else notice the TSE ads on KS change from Decemeber 2005 to today? According to TSE they have stayed exactly the same, NO CHANGE!!!!!
Did it make any one else uncomfortable that you had purchase the last XXXXX 100% het only to see them still available in later ads?

Did any one else find them very available before your purchase..Quick responses, pick up the phone, only to have no more communication after purchase.

I would also like to add that.

What does TSE and Chris J think people will feel when people have sent them $1000s of dollars and seen rude or no responses and then go to see everything that has been discussed on this thread.

I hate to say it but what has done has made us all sick with concern.

Yes I have tried to contacted Chris about these questions and descrepancies with my purchase. I also contacted TSE to talk with Chris about my email to him. They told me that was a waste as the deal did not involve Chris.

This whole situation has made me sick!

Chris Rouille
Tucson, AZ

 

[nicolai]

Overinflated sense of self-importance? (FACT)

You proved my point again,you wasted yet another post worrying about me

 

[weostan]

hey Nicolai i did not get a reponce on that PM i sent u

 

[tejasranger]

Nicolai, You remind me of "Bagdad Bob" the Iraqi propaganda minister. The whole world was crashing in around him, while he kept on flapping his gums about how well the war was going for Iraq. The only difference is that you shill for TSE. You love the attention, you know it, so quit complaining about it.

 

[nicolai]

Where is your proof of this?

Maybe you need to participate in the TSE thread, you may get your animals sooner:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78572

Heres your proof...plus he admitted it a few posts ago if you didnt notice.

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Where did I say anything about you attacking anyone? Why don't carefully read the posts before you reply?.

I didnt say you said it, but here is the proof it was said anyway.

He has as much right to feel that way, as you do to attack virtually everybody on here who has posted something (against your mentor?). .

Now you are jumping on someone else, because you feel he posted to soon..

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Oh, like your comments about someone being told to post on this thread to get his snakes faster. Without providing proof of same? A little hypocritical from where I stand...

please see proof posted above

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Overinflated sense of self-importance? (FACT))

Please see your entire last post about "me" for proof

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Empathetic Persecution complex? (FACT)

Maybe ???