Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[Herpcam]

One more sucker comes forward

Has anyone ever personally met Chris or seen him vending at any shows?

I hope this wasn't hidden in the few pages I didn't read, but I always thought that Nicolai had met or knew Chris. I may be mistaken by their apparent close friendship on the various forums.

We also purchased 1.1 het albino ball pythons from Chris and his crew last year. Like the others, I'm beginning to fear they are just normals that we paid too much for. Since these are my first BPs and only our 2nd and 3d snakes, we haven't even probed them, so I guess there's always a possibility they aren't even a pair. I have to work on that one. Anyone in the South Bay, L.A. area want to give me a hands-on class on probing?

Unfortunately we'll likely be forced to sell the pair by the end of the year, and this thread is bound to cause a significant loss on our 'investment'. And to think I influenced my wife to let me get them by saying that 'even if we have to sell them without breeding, we'll at least make our money back because they're 100% hets...' I'll have trouble using that one again.

It seems like Chris sold a large amount of Balls over the past couple years. If he didn't actually produce them himself, wouldn't there be someone who profited from his need for a large amount of normals? Someone out there has to know they sold to him. Anyone know of any importers or large wholesalers to ask about this? How about the local Petco and Petsmart in Buffalo? They usually have a few balls for sale pretty regularly. I guess a lawyer may be able to look into his financial records to see if he was purchasing regularly from one or more sources of BPs.

I'll also contribute some to a legal pursuit.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Well, if you were the one that done the deed ...

Hey Herpcam. Certainly no arguing with this assessment:

If he didn't actually produce them himself, wouldn't there be someone who profited from his need for a large amount of normals? Someone out there has to know they sold to him.

But it could have been as little as 30-40 normals, or maybe up to 100. Several providers could have been used, or they could have been bought with an alias or two. If someone knew they were providing "future hets" to Chris, and had suspicions about it (and one seller here mentioned they had who only sold Chris 2), or is just now seeing what they might have facilitated, its not the kind of publicity they might want to own up to. As much as I have developed a very unsavory opinion of Chris, I still have to hope that the first few clutches from his hets are good. More than a few of you will be soothed modestly if that is the case, for all the right reasons.

 

[shrap]

Everyone and their cousin sells lots of farmed baby Balls..... when you consider a 100 lot can be had as cheap as $1000..... it really is not that much money or a very memorable transaction for people who import 1000's of balls a year.

 

[SVT Snake]

Does anyone want to volunteer to manage the trust fund? I will be contacting some attorneys today and would like to get the ball rolling as soon as possible.

 

[tejasranger]

Could this legal fund be handled through someones Paypal account? It would make for easier tracking of deposits from the members and distributions. You can check with the attorney's to see if they will accept payment that way.

 

[joepythons]

assist

Hi, i have a members info from another site that was taken by TSE and was wondering who do i forward the info to here on fauna? If i missed this info i apologize.

 

[Lucille]

Auction fiasco? Wow, that comment cuts pretty deep. Oh well. I wish I had the time to coordinate an auction, I would do it in a heartbeat, but with a huge gecko collection and a four year old at home I just can't commit to it. Surely someone will step up though, that has a bit more time.

I originated the idea for the Fauna Auctions. It was fun and people donated good items to help Fauna. I loved doing the auctions. There were problems here and there, mostly non registered members who were deadbeat bidders, but I think that auctions everywhere are plagued by problems of some sort.

When Kelli lost her son I was devastated. All of us who are moms cried in our hearts, at such a terrible loss, and Kelli is such a fine person. I could not understand why this happened. I suppose it is not good to question why the universe unfolds a certain way, but I did, it seemed so unfair that such a beautiful child should be gone.
The Hammack Fund was set up and people here on Fauna were extremely generous. I had no high dollar animals to give, so I donated a lovely piece of jewelry to the Hammack Fund and someone was good enough to purchase it and donate the funds to Kelli.

Somewhere during this time, I sent a private PM to two people I like and trust, saying in essence that I suspected that perhaps Chris might have had other motives besides the love of the Fauna community in his dealings with the Hammack Fund.

A few weeks later, almost everyone on Fauna had a copy of my PM and the community tore into me for even thinking that Chris would have impure motives. Chris himself sent me PMs saying that he would make me suffer for my words; and he did, many times over.

I am posting only to validate that I understand why the people now coming forward to tell of their experience with Chris are few. There were terrible consequences in those days for even thinking that Chris was not perfect.

It is time, though, to step forward and tell of your dealings; and to have the courage of your convictions. If there are more of you out there, please consider sharing your experiences with Chris/TSE.

 

[nicolai]

I hope this wasn't hidden in the few pages I didn't read, but I always thought that Nicolai had met or knew Chris. I may be mistaken by their apparent close friendship on the various forums.
.

Yes that was all explained before somewhere in the depths of this thread.


If you buy them in 300- 500 lots they are as cheap as 8.00 each. If you sell them as het pied...Wow what a profit!!!!! He must have a nice swiss bank accout.

I was very suspicious of TSE when I seen how overnight one day he’s selling Leopard Geckos etc and the next day he’s selling Ball Python Morphs. When he purchased the 2.0 normal Ball Pythons from me for $220.00 that was almost a confirmation as I'm concerned that he was up to no good.
With Chris being such an intelligent crook; Chris may very well be a Christine with a boyfriend posing as Chris. That would really throw people off now wouldn’t it?

Since no one knows for usre and no one has ever met him or dealt with him before a few years ago it is entirely possible his a a false identity, accounts everything. Onlt time will will just how deep this scam went. One thing is for sure, with all the people stepping forward with thier expriences and such this whole thing is much more involved and complex then anyone thought.

 

[Casey Hulse]

I Have dealt w/Chris twice. The first time he ordered an incubator. A few days after I shipped it he IM's me and tells me there is a problem with the door (crooked I think) and he is very disappointed. I told I would have it picked up and replaced or refund his money. He said he can have "one of his guys" take care of it, he just "does not know how it could have been shipped like that" or something like that. He then orders another one, and I felt obliged to give him $50 off the first and second, so he made $100 off me. Then a couple yrs. later (last yr.) he asks about a deli cup rack that I make. I told him I had 1 that holds 42 tubs and it was ready to go, and I would ship it to him to see if that is what he was looking for, I shipped it to him, when he received it I got IM'd again, thanking me for the "sample" and asking if I could build one that was twice as wide. I told him that shipping would be a problem and that was that. He has my "sample" which I sell for about $150. Oh well, I guess I figured a bigshot like him is used to getting freebies. Not nearly as bad as some of the experiences, and these were my fault, it just shows the level of Chris's arrogance.

 

[Cat_72]

First of all.......I want to thank each and every one of you who has stepped up to help out those of us who have been ripped off by TSE. Whether it be guidance, advice, simple support, or the offer of monetary contribution.......I want to thank you all, and let all of you know that I am very proud to know each of you. And I truly mean that from the bottom of my heart......THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now for the not-so-warm and fuzzy stuff.

Is there any way we can "sticky" a lot of the great information that people have come up with here? Like addresses, websites, phone numbers, and "list holders"? I've been trying to look back through the thread to find some of that information over again, and it's just about a lost cause.....

I'd also like to add that I'm admittedly pretty clueless when it comes to attorneys and legalese, but when someone decides to step up and take charge of that part of it, I'm more than willing to do absolutely anything I possibly can to help out, whether it be phone calling, writing up letters, what have you.....just say the word.

 

[tejasranger]

Does anyone want to volunteer to manage the trust fund? I will be contacting some attorneys today and would like to get the ball rolling as soon as possible.

Derek,
If you are willing to find an attorney and be the point of contact, then I will volunteer to manage the fund and distribute the funds at your discretion.

 

[varnyard]

I have not posted on here in a few days, but it looks like Chris is infact, the scammer I said he was a good ways back. Congratulations Chris, you have now 271 pages, 1,352 replies, and 82,948 views.

Chris/TSE, I must say one thing, you are real good at building a reputation. Too bad it is a real bad one!!

Also I am glad to see everyone getting organized. If there is anything I can do to help, feel free to ask!!

 

[Herpcam]

I've been in and out quite a bit over the past year or two, but didn't Chris have the ball python morphs on sale before he started buying up a lot of high-end leopard geckos? It seemed that way to me, but I haven't searched the threads to find out.

Here's another ball morph newbie question I think I know the answer to. On the certificates Chris sent with my snakes, it says the genetic guarantee is not transferrable. I take it that is not normal among ball python breeders? I'd never try to limit that with my geckos, but I wasn't sure with these guys.

What about Alex Hue? He seemed to have quite a bit of contact with Chris during the Mack Snow fiasco. I guess he never met him, either? Alex has been pretty absent in this thread, from what I can tell. (When you see this, Alex, I'm not accusing or attacking you, just looking to see if anyone knows your actual relationship.)

So, has Chris surpassed Tim Rainwater's level, yet? Legally speaking, whatever happened to him?

I also want to express my appreciation to all of you, especially those without a financial stake in this. Even though there is a train wreck-like curiosity about all of this, you are really showing everyone what a good community this is to be a part of.

 

[Fedawg]

Also I am glad to see everyone getting organized. If there is anything I can do to help, feel free to ask!!

Exactly what i was going to say. Im located in MA , not sure exactly how far from "Chris/TSE" , but if I can , i would be more than willing to take a ride up there and say "hello"........or I can help in many other ways......

 

[Cat_72]

Here's another ball morph newbie question I think I know the answer to. On the certificates Chris sent with my snakes, it says the genetic guarantee is not transferrable. I take it that is not normal among ball python breeders? I'd never try to limit that with my geckos, but I wasn't sure with these guys.

No, that is NOT the norm. It actually reads that the guarantee is "null and void unless they are notified and mediate the transfer", yadda yadda, which in truth, Chris DID say he would honor the guarantee on a pair of hets I was looking at buying last year, produced by him and sold by someone else. However.......I don't think that guarantee is worth the powder it'd take to blow it to at this point in time.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

I think what we should do is try and contact larger Ball Python importers and see if any were sold to Chris/TSE . I sent a fax off to L.A. Reptiles to find out if they ever did any buisness with Chris. He bought them from someone and panhandled them off as high end morphs. Everything in this guys life seems to be fraudulent.

 

[varnyard]

Exactly what i was going to say. Im located in MA , not sure exactly how far from "Chris/TSE" , but if I can , i would be more than willing to take a ride up there and say "hello"........or I can help in many other ways......

Now Derek, I don't think Chris is in any shape to be expecting visitors. I mean, with him on his death bed and all.

Besides he would probably be at work!!

 

[SVT Snake]

Derek,
If you are willing to find an attorney and be the point of contact, then I will volunteer to manage the fund and distribute the funds at your discretion.

Sounds like a plan to me. This is all new to me so I am just taking the ball and running with it. Any advice and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. At this point I am still waiting for the list of attorneys in the Buffalo area. As soon as I have the list I will be making some phone calls. Just to let everyone know, I am looking for a "Bull Dog" so to speak. I want to find the most aggressive attorney I can. Chris WILL suffer the consequences for his actions and decit.

Just to keep things straight, when I speak to an attorney later, I will only be speaking on the behalf of the people who did not recieve the animals they paid for. If we decide to pursue the the other avenue for those that recieved "hets" I will me glad to help with that as well but I just figured we would take things one at a time for now.

For those of you that paid with Pay-Pal, it is very important that you file a dispute so that they will open up an investigation.

Also, my girlfriend works for a bank and did a little checking for me. The bank can get your money back up to 60 days from the purchase. It may be well worth your time to check with your bank or your credit card company and let them know what is going on. They may be able to help.

For those of you that paid Chris for animals that you did not recieve, if you want to be included in the actions taken agains Chris and TSE please e-mail me at [email protected] so that I can include you on the list.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Derek, I am not to sure about getting your

money back. Paypal paid Chris. Paypal only acts as a conduit. They receive the money from you or your bank account or charge account and passes it on
The agreement that you signed and agreed to prevents you from superceding paypals ability to take control of the money matters. You cannot pay paypal and then call up your credit card co. and cancel the sale. It does not work that way, and would defeat the whole purpose of paypal.

What you can do is this. If you are a homeowner, and have homeowners insurance, you can file a claim through your homeowners policy, and you may be covered for theft through a credit card. Check it out.

 

[SVT Snake]

I am just passing along what I was told by the bank. They are aware that I paid with PayPal and have handled these matters before. I am not saying that they will or will not do anything about it but what can it hurt?