Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[KNOBTAIL]

If something could have been done with

paypal, it would have. Their are so many lost monies that have occurred, once you use an outside source for paying such as paypal.

Thats why Derek, as tempting as it may be, and as convenient as pushing a button, it will always favor the seller. Thats not to say their are extenuating circumstances where reversals are justified, but in this case, the money has been drained. Incidently, you do not need to file a claim with paypal in order to show that you lost monies through their operation. Just show proof of payment!

 

[Ian S.]

I will give 100 dollars to help fund leagal avenues for those seeking attorneys. I would also like to see others who have not been robbed by Chris to step up and help also. A trust would need to be set up, but I am willing to help from California!

I will also help in any way possible donations,info, & anything else with in reason.

 

[tejasranger]

If everyone that has pledged to contribute to the legal fund, will send me an email. I will create a mailing list and give instructions for payment. Also Lucille, if you were serious about liking to deal with the auctions ,perhaps you could contact, Critter Auction. I would be willing to put up an 05 male 100% het for Albino RTB for the auction (not a TSE purchase). I also heard from Chris, this morning, I will post the content this afternoon, when I get home. Nothing earth shattering just the same old blather, though he didn't mention his fake illness once.

 

[Hurley]

Any way we can get an "no comment" category on the poll so we can vote and make the "first unviewed thread" button work again?

 

[Hurley]

sigh, I miss my edit button...

an = a

or

no comment = I've got no reponse to that

...your choice.

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

Lets here others experiences?

Somewhere during this time, I sent a private PM to two people I like and trust, saying in essence that I suspected that perhaps Chris might have had other motives besides the love of the Fauna community in his dealings with the Hammack Fund.

A few weeks later, almost everyone on Fauna had a copy of my PM and the community tore into me for even thinking that Chris would have impure motives. Chris himself sent me PMs saying that he would make me suffer for my words; and he did, many times over.

I am posting only to validate that I understand why the people now coming forward to tell of their experience with Chris are few. There were terrible consequences in those days for even thinking that Chris was not perfect.

It is time, though, to step forward and tell of your dealings; and to have the courage of your convictions. If there are more of you out there, please consider sharing your experiences with Chris/TSE.

So how many others feared stepping up to TSE that have remained quiet?
You know you're out there so pitch in and let's hear some more truth regarding TSE.

Also to the parties that have been scammed, I wish you the best and I agree with Knobtails advice and you should act ASAP and take it for what it's worth.

 

[Ian S.]

Somewhere during this time, I sent a private PM to two people I like and trust, saying in essence that I suspected that perhaps Chris might have had other motives besides the love of the Fauna community in his dealings with the Hammack Fund.

A few weeks later, almost everyone on Fauna had a copy of my PM and the community tore into me for even thinking that Chris would have impure motives. Chris himself sent me PMs saying that he would make me suffer for my words; and he did, many times over.

I am posting only to validate that I understand why the people now coming forward to tell of their experience with Chris are few. There were terrible consequences in those days for even thinking that Chris was not perfect.

OMG!! lucille thats just horrible. I wish I was around during that point and time, for I would have gladly taken the fall with ya!! looks like your getting the last laugh and are deserve many of apologies. I should be the first for any past descrepencies we may have had. You were 100% correct with your past accusations and I condone you for your courage in speaking out. Sounds like if people were just a little more open minded to a different opinion this could have come out a long time ago.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Ian, what

terrible consequences could Chris impose on some of you. If someone would please provide me with some intelligent information about this, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Gecko_Den]

For the sake of being able to use "view first unread" button again, I voted that "I have received nothing from TSE". I never ordered from him, so I don't need to be included on the list.
Thanks.

 

[Ian S.]

Jerry

terrible consequences could Chris impose on some of you. If someone would please provide me with some intelligent information about this, I would greatly appreciate it.

Im sorry I don't understand what you are asking me. as far as intelligent information?? Sorry for any inconvenience.

 

[shrap]

I banged heads with Chris on more than one occasion over things I felt were not right. If people let bullies bully them they have no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Scott Ashton]

terrible consequences could Chris impose on some of you. If someone would please provide me with some intelligent information about this, I would greatly appreciate it.

The phrase you are refeering to was qouted by Ian from Lucille's post.

As far as "terrible consequences" are concerned, I believe that this would be Chris' tendency to go off on people like a hungry bulldog being yanked from the back of a meat truck. Its also my understanding that he was relentless in such attacks.

 

[Ian S.]

I banged heads with Chris on more than one occasion over things I felt were not right. If people let bullies bully them they have no one to blame but themselves.

LOL you too eh!!

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

I banged heads with Chris on more than one occasion over things I felt were not right. If people let bullies bully them they have no one to blame but themselves.

Sammy,

I read some of his arrogant post and if I was a potential customer I would never purchase from him. I would like to know why people would want to give there hard earned money to someone who was so egotistical that looked down on everyone else?

 

[shrap]

Sammy,

I read some of his arrogant post and if I was a potential customer I would never purchase from him. I would like to know why people would want to give there hard earned money to someone who was so egotistical that looked down on everyone else?

I never bought anything from Chris, very much for the exact reasons you just said. My head butts with Chris were very much about how he treated people and tried to bully them. The Dan Poe/Dan Lubinsky incident for one. I stood up for the Dans then and still feel to this day they were railroaded by a group of bullies. Chris' story didn't jive then and it sure don't jive now in this latest fiasco.

It was the issue with the Dans that told me all needed to know about Chris.... and others.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Since it is the topic of the thread right now, that being that a few members avoided confrontation with Chris as it was an unpleasant experience, I admit that I can understand a few who had issues with Chris not wanting to wrestle with him. More than a few of you pointed to Chris's mouth (or typestrokes) as a reason why you did not do business with him, and that is wisdom at its finest. But I have been perplexed about another set of voluntary actions that many of you took, which enhanced Chris's stature and facilitated the sham. Trader ratings, and more particularly, a GGC vote of something like 61-1. I can probably understand legitimate trader ratings based on one good deal, and am one who believes Chris actively solicited them, if not also padded them back when it was easier to do. But the ease with which some of you decided Chris rated your vote as a "Good Guy" baffles me. One or two good deals (if that) and 61 of you were ready to say he was good ! I have cast all of about four GGC good guy votes. and they are with folks that I have known, in some cases many years, have met all in person, etc. But for Chris to have racked up 61 "good guy" votes based on such little actual knowledge of him shows me that too much of this community hands out "atta boys" way to easily. He may have "bullied" some folks into avoiding confrontation with him, but those votes were 100% voluntary. Sorry !

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I Have dealt w/Chris twice. The first time he ordered an incubator. A few days after I shipped it he IM's me and tells me there is a problem with the door (crooked I think) and he is very disappointed. I told I would have it picked up and replaced or refund his money. He said he can have "one of his guys" take care of it, he just "does not know how it could have been shipped like that" or something like that. He then orders another one, and I felt obliged to give him $50 off the first and second, so he made $100 off me. Then a couple yrs. later (last yr.) he asks about a deli cup rack that I make. I told him I had 1 that holds 42 tubs and it was ready to go, and I would ship it to him to see if that is what he was looking for, I shipped it to him, when he received it I got IM'd again, thanking me for the "sample" and asking if I could build one that was twice as wide. I told him that shipping would be a problem and that was that. He has my "sample" which I sell for about $150. Oh well, I guess I figured a bigshot like him is used to getting freebies. Not nearly as bad as some of the experiences, and these were my fault, it just shows the level of Chris's arrogance.

Casey, I need a sample of one of your incubators please.

Seriously, that is just horrible.

Chris, I'm looking forward to you coming back and making everyone "eat crow" as you stated.

 

[Lucille]

When I was helping with the Hammack Fund Auction there was a woman named Robin who posted something about me in a foreign language. I admit it was an error in judgment to call her out on it in the Welcome Forum. Here, a post from Chris having to do with this incident:

Chris@TSE
Dead to the World

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 2,972
Name : Chris Johnson
Karma Power: 64

Trader Rating: (64)


Warning Level: 2 "But the plain fact is that she made a serious error in judgement in posting that in the Welcome forum. As a moderator she ought to be held to a higher standard than the rest of us, and you as site owner ought to be able to set the tone for all of the moderators. You have given at least one moderator warning points in the past. At the very least, Lucille needs to come here and explain herself."

AMEN! Nice to see yet another individual feel the same way, yet Rich states "I think someone wants the crap to hit the fan, but is completely unaware of which way the air is moving."

I've got information brother. That someone is you.

Seems like your mindless groupies are not agreeing with you blindly like they have in the past. In fact it seems the general concencus here is you're wrong. But let me guess.... Waaa Waa Waaa It's my board screw everyone right? Thought so. sieg heil!

You're right. Its your board. You may do as you wish..... But at what cost? you never used to treat people this way, how long do you think it will take before it comes back to haunt you?! Something like this would have not warrented your attention had it been a regular user, you said so yourself. sieg heil!

This time its a moderator who is obviously in the wrong yet you are blindly defending them. Robin takes your warning points without argument and the issue turns to Lucille, all the while you continue wasting everyones time by trying to change the tide back towards Robin and her untranslated post rather than move the damn thread out from where it did not belong and deal with lucille. Yes I know.... waaa waaaa waaaa thanks for telling me how to run my board waaa waaa waaa please accpet this snide remark rather than a respectable answer. sieg heil!

I'm not telling you how to do anything. I'm relaying an obvious course of action. A course of action you chose to ignore. You decided to focus on Robin this time, what was it? An attempt to change the direction of the angry mob? Trying to help Lucille avoid the aftermath of a thread she should have taken up privately? Either way you failed.... Sorry. Seems no one really cares about the translation. Everyone knew from the start that it wasnt anything positive or really worth researching. Robin was given her points and attention was drawn to the remaining matter at hand. Lucille. Even you cannot distract people away from that.... sieg heil!

But let me guess...... Everyone else has to answer for actions like that, but not lucille right? sieg heil!

I commend your actions, its nice to see you are capable of defending someone other than yourself given the proper motivation but even you must admit that this is a conflict that does not involve you. Granted in most cases I have seen its only your fellow moderators but HEY! Thats cool.... Good for you. Atleast you're somewhat capable. Truth be told the only way this situation would have involed you to this extent would be in reaction to one of Lucilles reported posts or pms whining for assistance. In any other case you would have stumbled upon it yourself, moved it, and made a snide comment. Yet here you are, ignoring the fact one of your own has done something you would deem punishable had it been someone else. Why? Because Lucille is incapable of fighting her own battles and cleaning her own messes. Otherwise we would not be graced with so much of your attention. You know this, please do not try making an excuse for it. sieg heil!

I'm willing to bet if any of us had done something similar you would have been right there to slap us on the hand and scream NO! lol

"And the argument that Lucille may not have known that it was in poor taste (given the source and the situation) is floating in a septic tank somewhere."

Im sorry but "playing dumb" may work VERY well for Lucille, but not this time. You cannot expect anyone to believe that she did not know that it was in poor taste. She posted it publicly with a sarcastic remark regarding service to your auctions hoping to justify doing so..... But hey, if excuses work better for you, SUIT YOURSELF right?

Keep making excuses Rich rather than simply dealing with the issue at hand. People want to see your moderator answer for her actions. People want to see you enforce your rules equally. sieg heil!

I'm still wondering where the Rich I used to respect has gone. Something has changed....... And I certainly do not like it. This place used to resemble a community..... Now it resembles Nazi Germany. You used to care what people thought, their thoughts and ideas helped mold this place... Now when you ask opinions you make damn sure to let everyone know you've got final say and thier answers basically do not directly affect anything. How respectable. sieg heil!

As Jim said, your moderators should be held to a higher stand. How about you enforce that higher standard instead of playing babysitter. Stop the excuses and what if's... Everyone has seen what has happened and it is not like you have not had to run to lucilles aide before.............. she practiclly whines and crys about everything under the sun! I commend the job she does in the fauna fund & welcome section. Yay for her.... Is that supposed to excuse her actions?! No. Does that mean she gains the blind protection of the owner. You betchya.............. sieg heil!

She's able to continue a fund that was initially started with the intentions of helping a free forum remain free, and help take the burden off of YOU, the owner. Yet this effort was quickly thwarted by your pay system. I agreed at the time...... But wait... Why the hell is the fauna fund still around then?! (until it was recently renamed of course for a good cause)

You mean you're making people pay and still fishing for handouts?! Hmmm.... I can think of a few words to describe that one... You can't have it both ways Rich. Want people to pay to access aspects of this site?! Then stop accepting handouts. Stick to your subscriptions. You may even want to offer those who put up these sorts of donations REFUNDS considering the whole reason they made these donations was to avoid a pay structure. I'm sure you havent let that bother you though....

I know I for one put up donations to make sure it did not have to come to this. But nevertheless it did..... I didnt think much of it at the time, I was just happy this place would continue to prosper. Or so I thought... Here you go guys... Thanks for contributing that stuff, now you have to pay to access the site. Sorry. Tough luck. sieg heil!

Well anyways, before I stray too off topic......

How about you drop the little routine, tell the pathetic child to emerge from the shadows and fend for herself. You dont belong fighting other peoples battles Rich, you should be more concerned about other things. Defending a moderator with the childlike mentality of a sixth grader is not one of them......... She wanted this to be public. Let her deal with it.
__________________
C. Johnson
Top Shelf Exotics
TSE Forums

 

[Lucille]

One more: going back 6 months or a year and looking at what Chris posted to others can be very educational. Here, a post he made a while back to someone else:

11-14-2005, 03:07 PM #111
Chris@TSE
Dead to the World

Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 2,972
Name : Chris Johnson
Karma Power: 64
Trader Rating: (64)
Warning Level: 2

also, last I checked attempting to scam someone, local to you no less, was not a very wise move... "recourse" action is being sought as of this moment. I do not take kindly to these sorts of actions, and for some reason even though it was made apparently clear, this person still does not seem to realize we are local. No less than a few moments away...... and if they do, they certainly did not count on being "caught"

I have a few phone calls to make, I've been advised simply dropping by may not be wise, but dropping by with some company way be advisable.

It shall turn interesting I am sure. I'll keep you updated if there is anything to add in the future.
__________________
C. Johnson
Top Shelf Exotics
TSE Forums

 

[tejasranger]

Lazarus Speaks

I have been emailing Chris every morning, with a request for a refund for the sick snakes. Here is his latest reply. I still can't believe how many words it takes this guy to say "I'm Broke". Well here goes, The profanity from both sides will be censored by my for this post.

From: England, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:14 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Cc: '[email protected]'
Subject: Refund Request #20

Chris/Pat/Glenn/Doug/Sybil,

Good Morning, Scumbag. This is today's request for a refund for the sick

snakes you sent me. Today's total is $1684.00 + return shipping. Please

expedite this request, as your deadline is Noon, Friday 5/12/2006.

Sincerely, Bob England

I also attached a Photo of Sing Sing Prison

From: C. Johnson [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:34 AM
To: England, Robert
Subject: RE: Refund Request #20

Good Morning to you as well. Customers will receive what they are owed just as I have said. CC Charge-backs have started to be granted\refunded already and those awaiting direct funds must wait until we have direct access. I requested you file a chargeback claim yet you have refused to do so. So be it. To "update" I sent over some notarized material our banks requested on Tuesday so I should be hearing something soon with all luck. I also have to contact PayPal again to provide them with some information they requested regarding a few transactions that were in question. Apparently there were a few duplicate claims issued and so forth, a proverbial mess. Nothing new.

And yet again in reply to your "demands" you will not be receiving a single dime until the specimens are shipped to an intermediary party as we discussed. Had you forgotten this? You keep going on and on about a deadline which is illogical given our agreement and my previous statements regarding the present status of the accounts from which your restitution is to be sourced.

I have consulted numerous parties regarding your particular matter and from what I have been told these types of threats and constant harassment from you certainly do a great deal of harm to your situation, especially in the form of electronic correspondence. In fact I have been told to cease communication with you entirely and to allow you to seek whatever means you desire since you had made payment, received shipment, and now have a "civil" claim. Seems that in the end you may either be denied or granted what is owed. The only difference will be the costs you encounter in the process in result of such action and additional litigation in response to your documented harassment.

The fact remains I still intend on correcting this matter despite your behavior and threats and have no intention of escalating matters to the point they require legal proceedings. Obviously if you are not willing to acknowledge my situation then I have no control over whatever action it is you wish to seek. I completely understand. It does not change my intention to rectify this and all outstanding issues as soon as I am able to do so. Authorities who have inquired have been briefed on the current situation and I have been updating them as well. Any others who inquire will be provided with anything they require to confirm the status of our accounts and any and all claims. I have debts to pay and as I have said before I have every intention on paying them regardless of how someone decided to behave, threats, or action taken. Even law enforcement and courts understand account limitations when they can be easily verified.

Also, I will not stand for any more harassment or derogatory correspondence. I have dealt with you despite advisement up until now as I understand you are upset and seeking what you are owed. I would be upset too. But I am no longer dealing with this type of behavior. It ends now. Your next message will decide the future course of this situation, one of two things can happen here: 1. You can either cease harassment and derogatory correspondence and we may continue this matter as grown adults and work towards a resolution. Or 2, you can continue behaving in this manner and you will be ignored from that point on. It is that simple. I am willing to work with you to see this matter finally come to a close but I am not willing to deal with anymore of your threats or rude statements. There are many people owed a great deal of money and animals and none of them have sunk to such a level of behavior Robert. It serves no purpose, in fact it just complicates matters further. Hopefully the tone of your correspondence improves and we can look forward to a timely conclusion of this issue. I'm anxious to remedy these issues and perhaps it can be done in a mature fashion. Otherwise I wish you well and you'll be contacted to arrange the shipment to an intermediary and payment. I will be around Thursday evening to reply to your response (or to block further correspondence if you decide to continue with the derogatory and harassing messages)

Have a good day.

From: England, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:59 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Refund Request #20

Don't even begin to lecture or threaten me you thief, What you have perpetrated is Fraud, not bad business decisions. So why don't you cut back on the haughty attitude you hypocrite and pay what you owe.

Have a wonderful day, you , Bob England

From: C. Johnson [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:09 AM
To: England, Robert
Subject: RE: Refund Request #20

There were no threats Robert, I told you exactly how I would proceed. Simple as that. Obviously you need to mature before addressing this matter further. Goodbye for now,

Have a wonderful day,


C. Johnson

From: England, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:17 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Refund Request #20

Why don't you define your use of the word mature? You steal from me and you expect me to be mature! You are a thief and a liar, so anything you have to say other than "I will meet my commitments" is of no interest to me.

From: C. Johnson [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:32 AM
To: England, Robert
Subject: RE: Refund Request #20

I am a thief yet your order was delivered and unfortunately the specimens were ill. Makes perfect sense, your logic astounds me. I already stated I would meet my commitments but you are apparently unable to grasp the concept and you continue to behave in an intolerable fashion. I was quite specific I would no longer tolerate your derogatory or rude antics. I am wasting my time corresponding with you, I am now done. Good day to you.

C. Johnson

From: England, Robert
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:47 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: Refund Request #20

Talk is cheap, Chris

Not one word about his Fake illness, maybe he made a fake full recovery. I know Fake Pat, Fake Glenn, Fake Doug, & Fake attorney will be thrilled to hear about the Fake miracle.