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Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

Bob - could it be because there is already a case on this? Did they look anything up while you were tlaking to them or did you just give a breif description of the crime and they forwarded you?

Possibly because it's an internet fraud case which might not be handled by the local jurisdiction?
 
Robert,
Welcome to reality. Unfortunately, there is a way to currently view all this as a civil matter, and not a criminal one. Its one thing if someone comes to you and takes your money, either via robbery or burglary. But if they get you to send it to them, in return for a promised service or merchandise, and then simply could not deliver, it is not a crime, and as has been discussed ad-nausea, the scammer is also afforded some bankruptcy protection. Maybe there is some provable fraud beneath it all, but the dollar amount is not large by their standards, its a group of scattered plaintiffs, and they are out of state on top of it all. This might be big news if it all happened in Mayberry, to give credit to Officer Fife, but not in suburban Buffalo. What you got was the "pass-around run-around". Just not big enough on the radar for any of those entities to commit their resources to pursue it.
 
ToshaMc said:
Bob - could it be because there is already a case on this? Did they look anything up while you were tlaking to them or did you just give a breif description of the crime and they forwarded you?

Possibly because it's an internet fraud case which might not be handled by the local jurisdiction?
Click to expand...

They didn't mention an existing case, and I didn't think to ask. I talked to them around the 5th of May. Someone called today to file a complaint, and this is why I brought it up. Internet Fraud would still be prosecuted where the the crime originated wouldn't it? I would never expect a law enforcement entity to be able to cherry pick what laws they would enforce. Other internet crimes are investigated quickly and thoroughly, i.e. Internet Child Pornography. I would never equate selling sick snakes as being as heineous a crime as Kiddy Porn, but the premise is still there.
 
Jim,
I see what you are saying, and I am old enough to know that life is not always fair, but The law is the law, and whether I steal from you at gunpoint, or use a mouse. the result is the same, I have deprived you of the use of your cash. I don't buy these "I'm not a crook, I'm just a bad businessman" defenses. I guess we'll find out soon if the Enron Execs are successful using it. The statement "We don't like to get involved" just won't cut it. It's not like I was calling the Water Dept, or Animal Control. I don't think that it is their decision to make. That is why there is a judicial process following any law enforcement action. It is this kind of response from the PD that encourages miscreants like Chris.
 
Rob, I feel your pain !! I can't disagree in theory with anything that you are saying, and there was a time when we shot folks just for stealing a horse. All this you know. You also know that if you were the son of a member of the county council for Erie County NY, this would get attention. BTW, as you probably also know, the Enron Execs are charged with a completely different set of crimes than would be leveled at Chris, and unlike Chris, they are high profile. Squeaky wheel gets the oil, and I truly do feel your pain !
 
ROBERT, your problem with the police must relate to

Fraud, which even if you lived in the state that the crime occurred, would be difficult to prove considering that you gave him money in advance. We know the outcome, but the police would have you deal with it civilly.

It would be more beneficial for your attorney to contact the DA's office, and bypass the police as their are no plaintiffs in Erie County.

What you may want to reconsider is calling back the police dept and ask to speak to someone in the detective division. Just explain that a local resident has defrauded many individuals for thousands of dollars, and you want to see if a complaint can be filed. The worst he can say is no.

If you need further help, email me. JERRY
 
Herpcam said:
What about Alex Hue? He seemed to have quite a bit of contact with Chris during the Mack Snow fiasco. I guess he never met him, either? Alex has been pretty absent in this thread, from what I can tell. (When you see this, Alex, I'm not accusing or attacking you, just looking to see if anyone knows your actual relationship.)
Click to expand...
KelliH said:
Excellent question, Rob. Curious that Alex has not posted, but perhaps he doesn't want to get involved. I have no proof, but I have a couple people tell me "off the record" that Chris was getting a lot of ch balls from Mr. Hue. So it would be nice if Alex would come here and either confirm or deny that.
Click to expand...
Golden Gate Geckos said:
Has anyone talked to Alex Hue about this yet?
Click to expand...
Ian S. said:
Any one talk to Alex Hue yet??
Click to expand...
Ummmm... are there only 4 of us who are interested in the answers to our questions?
 
Marcia, what does Alex

have to do with TSE and Chris? Even if Alex did sell reptiles to Chris, what does that have to do with Chris ripping people off.

Is their an obligation on Alex's part to partake in this thread? If not then lets concern ourselves with those who Chris delt with and not whether Alex because of his silence requires his presence!
 
I have talked to Alex about all of this. I can not post any content of our conversations per webslave, but I will say that he could not offer much info. that would be of any help to those Chris defrauded.
 
KNOBTAIL said:
Marcia, what does Alex have to do with TSE and Chris? Even if Alex did sell reptiles to Chris, what does that have to do with Chris ripping people off.
Click to expand...
KNOBTAIL said:

Is their an obligation on Alex's part to partake in this thread? If not then lets concern ourselves with those who Chris delt with and not whether Alex because of his silence requires his presence!
Click to expand...
I was under the impression (and I'll bank on the fact that I am not the only one) that Alex and Chris were working on several projects together... after all, during the Mack Snow "drama" it seemed that Chris was actually Alex's mouthpiece! Alex, or anyone else for that matter, is not obligated in any way to respond to this thread. I just felt that he could possibly shed some light on the question as to whether or not Chris actually acquired and then sold BP hets to people or not. Plain and simple.
 
I really have no stomach for a witch hunt, or some "guilt-by-association lest you come here and explain yourself". I wish that I had the magic bullet to load in my gun and shoot it at the appropriate target to get everyone back their money, or some other remedy to ease the detriment suffered by all who have tangible losses. That other entities had business relationships with Chris involving gecko's etc, is to be expected, and was apparent to many here based on prior threads. While all are welcome to come here to post any thoughts that they may care to share is acknowledged by all, to attempt to call them out is not on any agenda that I can endorse, or feel is in the best interests of what is a common goal here, the persecution of Chris Johnson.
 
:) Alex Hue is a pretty big name in the herp business. It would really show that extra testament to the folks of the community since he has worked closely with him on select projects. I wouldn't jump to calling it a witch hunt. More or less asking for some honest answers. A contribution to the herp community if you will. :)
 
Chameleon Company said:
I really have no stomach for a witch hunt, or some "guilt-by-association lest you come here and explain yourself".... While all are welcome to come here to post any thoughts that they may care to share is acknowledged by all, to attempt to call them out is not on any agenda that I can endorse, or feel is in the best interests of what is a common goal here, the persecution of Chris Johnson.
Click to expand...
Just looking for answers, like everyone else.
 
If it is that innocent, how about making a list of questions that Alex is supposed to answer, or might can answer, etc? I can understand wanting answers, but my point, and I believe Jerry's, is why are certain people obligated to answer, to be "called out" as I put it? How are they in any way qualified to provide information about the scamming activities of Chris at TSE? If the answer is "I have nothing to say", then I would suggest that they already said that by their silence! I have knocked heads with Alex over other issues, but unless someone wants to make a specific allegation regarding the immoral activities of TSE and any connection to Alex or others, which I have absolutely no hint of, and regret mentioning their names in the same sentance, it is on it face a witch hunt, IMHO.
 
Chameleon Company said:
Here's an angle that hasn't been mentioned in the thread, and is sound reason to look at a criminal prosecution. If this ever becomes a criminal investigation, all of Chris's communications will be subpoenaed, for whether he has deleted them or not, they still exist. What if Chris had someone who may qualify as a co-conspirator in providing these animals, who knew of the scam (if it proves to be one)? The relationship, and possibly incriminating communications, could be the kiss of death. Let your mind wander, but what if Chris's arrangements with his suppliers soured? You are correct in that the silence is deafening!
Click to expand...
You said it yourself, Jim. No witch hunt here, IMHO.
 
Marcia,
If there is a criminal investigation, the investigating detectives etc. will pursue specific entities based upon specific and tangible information. A few of you have chosen to drop Alex's name left and right, and some of the rest of us are asking "what gives"? So far, the answer has been "nothing". Not sure what you meant to imply by your quote, and the deft highlighting ...... maybe you could fill in the blanks a bit better, as I missed the part where I said that Alex had things to answer for, and being the stump that I am, I don't get it ? I thank you in advance for the enlightenment to follow.
 
Jim

The only reason Alex has been brought up (I think) is because the two of them were very tight at one time. Which really has nothing to do with what Chris has done, but could very well be where Chris was getting many of his animals. Not that Alex owes anyone that info, just explaining why his name may have been brought up.
 
IMHO, there is not but one person that needs to answer for anything here. JUST CHRIS/ TSE. I don't see the need to draw others out, or call them out. It is Chris that made his choice, and he is the one in question.

I also don't think there will be much more on this issue until it passes through court. It will probably be quiet here for a while until this issue is resolved. It would not be in the best interests for them to reveal information about this case, until it is settled.

I am in full support of the ones that were taken. I do not see a bright future for Chris. I am looking into my Crystal ball. :no01: :bluegrab:
 
I originally asked about Alex because, as has already been mentioned, he appeared to be very close to Chris based on his and Chris's posts here on Fauna. I also asked about Nicolai, who appeared to be close to Chris. I was simply looking for answers to any of the many unanswered questions on this forum since even if Chris came here we couldn't really believe what he posts.

If I remember correctly, Alex did pretty good 'background' checks on purchasers of the first Mack Snow leopard geckos he sold, so he would logically probably have some information of value to this thread, but he is surprisingly absent from this thread.

As far as questions for Alex, it would be nice for someone like him, who is well known in our community, to vouch for Chris even existing and being his true name. I will assume it's his name based on his ability to conduct financial transactions in that name, but I'm sure this is something that would have been verified in Alex's Mack Snow due diligence.

These questions have pretty much all been asked before - Has Alex ever met Chris? Does anyone know if Chris has/had any of the breeder ball pythons to have created the hets he sold us, or does Alex know who he may have been dealing with? Did Chris ever ask Alex for contact info on Ball Python breeders, wholesalers or importers? I'm in no way saying Alex may have done anything wrong, he just seems like the most widely known, respected person who openly had some sort of relationship with Chris.
 
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