Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[KNOBTAIL]

And then after Alex, who would be next? This is not an inquisition, and we should concern ourselves with TSE/Chris. If someone has any information that they feel Alex may know about that relates to this thievery, then contact the person privately. I read that this was already done, and Alex has already responded by indicating that he could not provide any additonal information. That should put an end to it.

 

[nicolai]

Listen, i know Chris got animals from alex and I know of others through his forum and chat room of others that sold anmals to Chris but they have nothing to do with it. What chris did with or sold the animals as is his sole responsibility and is the only one anyone should be holding culpable in this situation.
I emailed the two people I know of that he got some "balls" from to let them know of this thread and to ask them about thier transaction with Chris but neither of them want involved. They dont want thier names tied to this mess in any way, and i respect thier decision and didnt push them. I even asked if either of them had pictures of the animals they sold to chris to forward me and i would leave thier names out of it but neither wanted to do that as an option either. So no matter how this boils down in the end, no one wants to have thier name or reputation tied to this whole scenario one way or another.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Never doubted a relationship between Chris and others, but also never felt that meant these people had an obligation to come here and account for anything if they chose not to. Jerry and Nicolai summed it up very well in my view in the two prior posts. Mentioning Alex's name is one thing. To talk as though he needed to post here is another all together. Others may take the "silence is deafening" of those who they feel should be saying something any way they choose, but it is quite clear, as Nicolai pointed out, that one obvious message from the silence is that they don't want to have anything to do with TSE at this point. It may be comical or poetic that so many have run from him at this time, but I can't blame them.

 

[chondrogal]

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66213

Above thread, post #10 by Chris:

I was in idaho and montana for a wedding / fishing vacation 2 years ago. I'll never go back to idaho. lol

The 114F degree summer day ensured that....... Montana however was wonderful as always, I try to make it up there every other year or so. I own a cabin outside of missoula.

I'm all for sunny and hot, but Idaho was just insane..... I definately was not expecting it. I do believe it was some type of record.... sometime around the end of June.
__________________
C. Johnson
Top Shelf Exotics
TSE Forums

As I have the time I've been looking at other threads Chris participated in, the above stated property ownership, just thought "some folks" might like to know.

This is definitely the biggest fall from grace I have yet to see on the BOI and I can't stop reading..... is there a 10 step program to help me wean this addiction yet?

 

[LadyOhh]

I would have to say that being close in this buisness is arbitrary sometimes, as internet does not make for a complete and fulfilling relationship...
Especially considering there are people who have never set eyes on each other, but are "Friends."

Just a thought.

 

[Chameleon Company]

This "cabin" was mentioned earlier in the thread, which of course does not make it the easiest thing to find again. If an attorney did ever do an asset search on Chris, it would be a place to look. I doubt I am the only one here who expects it is likely just another tall tale from the Chris Johnson storybook, for something just doesn't ring true about "owning a cabin and trying to make it up there every other year or so". Perhaps one of those bad time-share deals. Are there parallels with the Una-bomber developing here?

 

[Zoo Supply]

Well,
I guess I didn't feel it necessary at the time, but I will let everyone know I sold normal balls to chris last year. I did however sell him normal adult female import balls. I seem to recall him saying he was using them for breeding purposes. Not 100% sure though. I have sold other animals to him, but not any baby balls at all. I am sure the majority of you guys recall him blasting joe of jp pets on here for the quality of his animals. I know that this was at least partially about ball pythons. I will ask joe if he ever sold any babies to chris today.
TOM

 

[Lucille]

This "cabin" was mentioned earlier in the thread, which of course does not make it the easiest thing to find again. If an attorney did ever do an asset search on Chris, it would be a place to look. I doubt I am the only one here who expects it is likely just another tall tale from the Chris Johnson storybook, for something just doesn't ring true about "owning a cabin and trying to make it up there every other year or so". Perhaps one of those bad time-share deals. Are there parallels with the Una-bomber developing here?

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=383525&highlight=cabin#post383525

 

[Cat_72]

Thanks, Tom. It's good of you to some forward....and I know that no one will think ANY less of you whatsoever for doing so....there's no reason to.

I really don't believe, unless someone has pictures of normal babies that they sold to Chris, and someone would recognize them as a "het" they have in their possession, that who sold what to Chris makes much if any difference. Chris also sold lots of normal babies, and the chances of someone recognising their "het" from a pic on here is slim to none as far as I can see, unfortunately.

As far as the comments made about there being "no reason for someone to sell hets to Chris unless they were lying low for some reason".....I can't say I agree with that completely either. Someone who is pretty much totally new to the ball python "scene" may have produced 100% hets, but since they were someone no one had heard of, (and of course because of nightmares like this one) they were unable to sell them. Now, if I were sitting on, say, 20 het males and 20 het females, and couldn't sell them, I'd be more than happy to sell them for a reduced price to someone, instead of selling them as $25 normals to a pet shop.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Tom, theirs no need to

post any previous sale to Chris. It was a sale, and what he did with the merchandise is another story, but should not reflect on you whatsoever.

This is the paranoia that gets produced, when some people feel its their business to know who sold what to Chris. It has no relevance to this ongoing litigation and their is absolutely no obligation on anyones part to provide any information about their legal sales to this thief.

 

[Scott Ashton]

post any previous sale to Chris. It was a sale, and what he did with the merchandise is another story, but should not reflect on you whatsoever.

This is the paranoia that gets produced, when some people feel its their business to know who sold what to Chris. It has no relevance to this ongoing litigation and their is absolutely no obligation on anyones part to provide any information about their legal sales to this thief.

I think the original intent was to see if anyone actually sold Chris Hets or stock from which he could produce Hets.

If people want to come forward and disclose this information I say let them, but understand that none of these people have any implication in whether or not Chris misrepresented animals. It also totally understandable if people don't want to get mixed up in this disaster, although I would like to think that we all are intelligent enough to understand that just because you sold animals to Chris doesn't mean you share his business ethics or lack thereof.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Cathy, that is interesting speculation,

As far as the comments made about there being "no reason for someone to sell hets to Chris unless they were lying low for some reason".....I can't say I agree with that completely either. Someone who is pretty much totally new to the ball python "scene" may have produced 100% hets, but since they were someone no one had heard of, (and of course because of nightmares like this one) they were unable to sell them. Now, if I were sitting on, say, 20 het males and 20 het females, and couldn't sell them, I'd be more than happy to sell them for a reduced price to someone, instead of selling them as $25 normals to a pet shop.

........and like my own conjecture, has its possibilities. I think it has certain inherent assumptions. One would be that this "unknown", who would be more than able to advertise their animals with documentation and a picture of the visual parent in a $30 KS account, could not move the animals while Chris could without any documentation. I also do not think it would come down to having to sell them as normals or sell them to Chris. The internet abounds with breeders who have had to bring their first year hets to market. Again, I cannot say it is not possible, but do think all scenarios which would seem to support someone selling hets to Chris for resale are unlikely. I think this thread is still waiting for the first documented case of anyone moving hets in any quantity through a second party solely for the purpose of resale. Whatever route taken, we all end up back at the same conclusion, which is either that Chris was directly involved in producing the hets himself (which I believe he always indicated ,yet never documented with pictures of breeders), or he "manufactured" them. Back when the discussion was ongoing about his endless supply of having the "last one" for the customer du-jour, an image came to mind of Chris dressed as a magician, with his inverted top-hat, and instead of pulling out a rabbit, it was "Oh look! Its another het ..... wait! there's another ...... and another ....."
My estimate is that it is still unlikely that Chris will ever be investigated on criminal fraud charges. Would hope to be wrong there. But just in case, I would advise people ot hold on to anything where Chris says that he produced the hets himself. His first defense, if they are ever proven to not be hets, or in deposition if he cannot document that he had viable breeding adults, will be to say that he got hets from someone whom he did not know well, who he met at a show, and is now not to be found, and all transactions were in cash.

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

I think the original intent was to see if anyone actually sold Chris Hets or stock from which he could produce Hets.

If people want to come forward and disclose this information I say let them, but understand that none of these people have any implication in whether or not Chris misrepresented animals. It also totally understandable if people don't want to get mixed up in this disaster, although I would like to think that we all are intelligent enough to understand that just because you sold animals to Chris doesn't mean you share his business ethics or lack thereof.

I had no problem with posting pictures of the two male normal Ball Pythons I sold Chris last year. Just because someone sold Chris animals doesn't make them a bad guy. After all nobody has control over how he sold his animals. Chris himself would have told us in the beginning of this thread whom he purchased his hets and visible morphs and that question has always been ignored. Not one single person in any manner has come forward to say they or someone they know sold Chris hets or visible morphs. It’s so obvious he ripped everyone off with his fake hets.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

A question that has been asked by many in this thread, and is apparently just taking up space on the list of questions Chris will not answer, has to do with whether Chris produced his own hets, are was just reselling or brokering the production of others. Whether asked directly, or in the form of requesting pictures of visual breeders, the concept needs to be questioned.

I think what we should do is try and contact larger Ball Python importers and see if any were sold to Chris/TSE. I sent a fax off to L.A. Reptiles to find out if they ever did any buisness with Chris. He bought them from someone and panhandled them off as high end morphs.

Jim and Jerry... isn't this what we were asking when the question came up, "Has anyone talked to Alex Hue?" I see no implications whatsoever! Besides, if Alex (or any other 'larger Ball Python importer) feels the need to comment to anything in this thread, I believe he has demonstrated in past threads that he is more than capable of doing it himself. Others on this thread came forward with information that may or may not be useful, and I don't see anyone accusing them of any wrong doing. I really think the term "witch hunt" is a little extreme...

 

[Bill_Leverton]

While I agree, who Chris got his stock from holds no bearing on what has transpired here...But a few things here do concern me

• (1) With all the phone calls to the police and D.A's Has anybody contacted the F.B.I ??? last time I looked Internet Fraud was in the top 10 list, also the community Chris lives or Lived in is one of those elite towns (tight knit) so the police aren't going to do NADA till the Feds show up.

• (2) I also noticed that Chris hasn't been here at all since the fund started ...Is anybody sure he's still here in NY ?????

• (3) The bringing up of Alex's name, any Newbie who does a search on him is going to wind up here and read only part of what's going on (as some of us do) and they will get the wrong idea which isn't cool.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Here's what I looked at, post #1587.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herpcam
What about Alex Hue? He seemed to have quite a bit of contact with Chris during the Mack Snow fiasco. I guess he never met him, either? Alex has been pretty absent in this thread, from what I can tell. (When you see this, Alex, I'm not accusing or attacking you, just looking to see if anyone knows your actual relationship.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KelliH
Excellent question, Rob. Curious that Alex has not posted, but perhaps he doesn't want to get involved. I have no proof, but I have a couple people tell me "off the record" that Chris was getting a lot of ch balls from Mr. Hue. So it would be nice if Alex would come here and either confirm or deny that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Gate Geckos
Has anyone talked to Alex Hue about this yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian S.
Any one talk to Alex Hue yet??

Ummmm... are there only 4 of us who are interested in the answers to our questions?

Marcia,
Maybe a step or two back are in order. I think I referred to it as a "witch hunt" or "a calling out", but I also do not think it matters, and will retract both, and just say that I am in disagreement with some of the tactics and suggestions of others. I do not know much of Alex's past associations with Chris, and also do not care to research it. On the other hand, I have to fully acknowledge that others may have legitimate concerns, suspicions, etc, based on whatever knowledge they have. I see no reason why anyone who wanted to ask Alex questions (again, see the bottom of post #1587) couldn't call him or PM him, etc. I believe it was Casey who noted that he had spoken to Alex, and characterized the communication within reasonable bounds. Otherwise, I saw innuendo within some of the posts that were in IMO calling Alex out that seemed derogatory, or at least in a manner that suggests that a failure by him to post here implies infamy. I know that if a past business associate of mine were involved in a heinous thread, that I would much prefer and respect those who thought it of a concern to me to PM me, rather than drop my names a half dozen times in the thread, wondering of my absence or failure to comment in forum.

All Jerry and I did was put up opinions about that approach. It doesn't stop anyone from coming here and raising holy Cain about Alex if they want to, connecting whatever dots they care to, etc. I think I put up a post that said something akin to "OK, if Alex needs to answer questions in this public forum, what are they?", and "Why does he need to answer them here?" BTW, there's no more any obligation for my questions to be answered than for anyone else's.

FYI, the quote that you took from my post has to do with questioning the concept of Chris's het integrity, from way back in this thread, not calling some third party to the carpet. I also see Jerry's recommendation as being very non-accusatory and reasonable. Marcia, I don't think one iota less of you, not even a smidgeon, and the scale is still well-tipped and laudatory in your favor with your contributions here and elsewhere. Its just a small disagreement. Heck, I was all for Ian's bashing Chris to his heart's desire, and feel that many of you should rightly place your foot on Chris's neck given the opportunity.

 

[KNOBTAIL]

Thanks, Jim

and if I can just add this addendum. I also pointed out that information that may be relevant to people who supplied Chris should be done in the form of a private email and not on this forum. But its at the discretion of the seller. The last thing we need is a list of who sold what to whom.

As i said earlier, this is not a witch hunt , nor should anyone feel any obligation to come forward unless they themselves are an injured party and they can get in touch with whom ever is handling this lawsuit. It makes absolutely no sense to add a post that they supplied Chris. We are not in a conscious clearing house where some requirements for admission is necessary. I also asked on more than one occassion to provide the name of the attorney who is handling this, with his address and phone # so interested parties may want to contact the attorney privately.

Whether their may be some importance attached to the fact that Chris did buy pythons from so and so is something that may be of benefit on a private level between an attorney those who are being represented. But we dont need a confessional on the BOI.

 

[shrap]

Jim

Never doubted a relationship between Chris and others, but also never felt that meant these people had an obligation to come here and account for anything if they chose not to. Jerry and Nicolai summed it up very well in my view in the two prior posts. Mentioning Alex's name is one thing. To talk as though he needed to post here is another all together.

I was not implying you felt there was an obligation for others to come here and talk. You asked why Alex's name keeps getting brought up and I answered your question... while clarifying my own feelings on the subject. Nothing more.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Sammy,

Maybe that's just things getting lost in the verbage:

I was not implying you felt there was an obligation for others to come here and talk.

...... for I never took it as such an implication. I had understood some mention of Alex's name earlier, and was only questioning why others felt he had an obligation to answer here, as I felt he had no such obligation.

 

[shrap]

Cool Jim!!

Was just wanting to make sure we were on the same page, bud. Too easy for misunderstandings on forums.