Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)

[Junkyard]

That sure is a pretty boa.

One article stated the geckos were found in a basement. Do apartments in NY have basements? Are we sure these two stories related? One of them is almost a year old.

 

[Chameleon Company]

They don't seem to be related, because of both the time frame, and that while the recent seizure represents 90 geckos, the earlier one mentions only two, along with other animals that do not fit what we know of Chris. The recent article also mentions Cheektowaga, which is the specific suburb of Buffalo where Chris lived. Since the SPCA responded to a call by the police, it seems possible that all the tree shaking by some dedicated members here may have gotten law enforcement to take note, and pursue one action available to them. While the article does not mention details, and does not provide a definition of what it labels as "abandoned", it is possible that some seizure was involved. Seems everything came apart at the seams up there.

 

[kmurphy]

Kelli wrote:

There's no doubt in my mind those are Chris Johnson's leopard geckos.

I agree. Looks like he's on the run or better yet in jail. I wonder if Gina Browning would give any more information regarding the owner over the phone. It would be nice to know if his(meaning the owner of TSE) name is actually Chris Johnson.

 

[WIGGLES]

That sure is a pretty boa.

One article stated the geckos were found in a basement. Do apartments in NY have basements? Are we sure these two stories related? One of them is almost a year old.

I'm sorry, I believe the two seizures are unrelated, I was running a search for the one and also found the other, so I posted them both, ( I was angry to find the second one as well) I shouldn't have done that. It's the one concerning the 90 leopard geckos that is truly in question here. I've been searching news articles looking for something that would link Chris's name to the seizure, but to no avail.

 

[varnyard]

There's no doubt in my mind those are Chris Johnson's leopard geckos. What a loser he is to abandon his animals that way. I urge everyone that was scammed to contact that detective so that something can be done to punish the guy. Too many scammers in the animal business get away with it and it's not right.

Kelli, how sure are you that these are Chris's geckos? Are there some in those pictures that you have seen before?

 

[chondrogal]

Is there a way to capture that page with story of 90 seized geckos so that it's here for eternity with this thread? This is indeed a very interesting turn of events and it would be nice to follow up and see how it turns out.

 

[Lizard Lair]

There MAY be one way of proving if those are Chris's geckos. He had pictures on his website of the original Mack Super Snow male that he was able to purchase. With a Leopard Gecko's distinctive markings that male would be easy to identify in the group that was found. That is if the male was still alive when the authroities seized the animals.

 

[KelliH]

Kelli, how sure are you that these are Chris's geckos? Are there some in those pictures that you have seen before?

Yes, some of the pictures looked like some of Chris'. Also, Cheektowaga is where Chris lived, and he lived in an apartment. With that amount of leos and the conditions they were found in, I have no doubt whatsoever.

 

[varnyard]

Yes, some of the pictures looked like some of Chris'. Also, Cheektowaga is where Chris lived, and he lived in an apartment. With that amount of leos and the conditions they were found in, I have no doubt whatsoever.

Well it looks like they would be his IMO also. It is looking like he would be the one they they were taken from.

If anyone gets intouch with Mr Brown, it might be good to drop this information on to him as well.

 

[djs27uro]

Hey everyone,

I've been working with the Erie County SPCA to care for these geckos. I just talked to someone down there to find out any updates. As you guys probably read from recent links, these animals were a bit too thin, housed too many in small cages (my opinion), and dehydrated/losing toes to necropsy. The district attorney said that there may not be enough evidence of animal cruelty to follow this path. However, since the house/apt was in poor conditions, they justified legally confiscating the animals and sending a letter. The letter stated that if no one contacted the SPCA within a period of time (5 days I think), they would legally become property of the SPCA. IF the owner showed up in time, they would have reconsidered pushing cruelty. However, the owner didn't say anything until after the hold period was up.

The geckos were being housed at a place rented by a girlfriend of the individual. (Some apt's in Buffalo have basements.) The owner claimed he was moving around a lot and gave other reasons why they didn't claim the geckos in time, but it's too late according to NYS law. So, they know exactly who the individual was that owned these animals since he came to them.

I mentioned Chris Johnson's name. My contact said that he could get back to me with a confirmation (or not) on this name. Although some of you may be mad at me, I didn't feel like it was my place to come reporting information like this on the internet. (Hey, I'm a bit mad at myself as well, but I saw it more as gossip at this point.) I have not had time to read this substantial and amazingly long thread, but if there is a detective working any case, I'm 100% positive ANY law enforcement agency could contact the SPCA and they would tell them the owner. The SPCA will most likely make a note of this thread in a file, at the very least for future reference.

I hope you guys understand my position. Even if these were his geckos, I didn't think that it had a direct impact on any cases you guys were currently involved in (therefore more gossip than helpful). It looks like his name is already dragged through the mud and I didn't want to blow any contacts I already had when it really might not further a case any more. Probably just a bit more fuel on the fire. That said, if you guys have ways of identifying any of these geckos, I'd gladly post pictures of the 45 we are trying to place. I may be able to get access to the other 45, but it's a bit of a pain. One thing I can tell you guys is that the genetics on some of these guys completely suck. A few appear to be incredibly inbred.

Dave


Someone wanted an archive of the SPCA article. Here's a cut and paste:

SPCA ANIMAL RESCUE TEAM SEIZES NINETY GECKOS FROM CHEEKTOWAGA HOME
Monday, June 19, 2006
By: Gina Browning, Public Relations Director, 716-629-3505
One of ninety geckos currently being cared for by SPCA
One of ninety geckos currently being cared for by SPCA

Wildlife Department Representatives and Infirmary Staff Evaluate, Care For Reptiles

Ninety Leopard Geckos are in the care of the SPCA Serving Erie County Wildlife Department after members of the Animal Rescue Team responded to a call from Cheektowaga Police late Saturday night.

Gecko at SPCA 6-06Rescue Team Member Joanie D'Aurelio originally responded to the report of reptiles abandoned in a Cheektowaga basement at approximately 11:30 pm Saturday night and found close to 100 geckos on the property; with the help of Aaron Geckos at SPCA 6-06Kanderfer, another member of the Rescue Team called for assistance, all the animals were removed from the residence and transported to the SPCA's Tonawanda shelter by 3:30 am Sunday. Upon arrival at the shelter, they received food, water, and initial evaluations.

The reptiles are being observed and cared for by members of the SPCA Wildlife Department and Infirmary Staff. Several of the animals are in poor condition (malnourished and dehydrated) while the physical condition of the others ranges from good to fair.

Another gecko at SPCA 6-06The geckos are not available for adoption at this time. A meeting is scheduled today between SPCA Animal Cruelty Investigators and members of the Cheektowaga Police Department to determine future action in this case.

Keep watching SPCAEC.com for more information on this and other animal cruelty cases in Erie County.

 

[DSsuper92]

Investigator Brown informed me today that he needs 10 depsoitions before he can move on with a felony fraud case. We are only at 7 depositions right now so if you know of someone that has been taken by Chris but they haven't turned one in yet please mention it to them.

I also forwarded him the link about the geckos and he is hopefully going to confirm if that is Chris or not for us.

Later,
Dave Schroeder

 

[WebSlave]

Investigator Brown informed me today that he needs 10 depsoitions before he can move on with a felony fraud case. We are only at 7 depositions right now so if you know of someone that has been taken by Chris but they haven't turned one in yet please mention it to them.

I also forwarded him the link about the geckos and he is hopefully going to confirm if that is Chris or not for us.

Later,
Dave Schroeder

Well that is interesting. So does that mean if I commit felony fraud against only 9 people I am off scott free with no legal recourse from my victims?

 

[varnyard]

Well that is interesting. So does that mean if I commit felony fraud against only 9 people I am off scott free with no legal recourse from my victims?

Well, that seems to be a valid question.

 

[Chameleon Company]

C'mon, lets be fair to Investigator Brown. He probably is not the one that sets the thresholds, and the DA knows that some of the specific cases will be more solid than others, based on written communications, availability for followup, etc. And then there's cost concerns. Wish it weren't so !

To someone's credit up there, the police used some initiative and jurisdictional power to take Chris's geckos from him, apparently against his will. Call it a small slap in the face considering what Chris has done, but it was a slap, and he knows that someone has reached out and "touched" him. I am sure it made him feel all warm and fuzzy !!

 

[varnyard]

I agree Jim, but the fact of the matter is that it makes no difference how many were scammed. It happen, and these seven were taken for thousands of dollars. As Rich pointed out, I do not think the number of people matters, as to the persuit of a conviction. These seven should be plenty enough to get a felony conviction. I do not see where it is going to take ten to get it done. I do agree, that the more the better, but he has enough to proceed in his persuit.

 

[Bill_Leverton]

To someone's credit up there, the police used some initiative and jurisdictional power to take Chris's geckos from him, apparently against his will. Call it a small slap in the face considering what Chris has done, but it was a slap, and he knows that someone has reached out and "touched" him. I am sure it made him feel all warm and fuzzy !!

With all due respect Jim, Has it been proven that the geckos are in fact Chris's or is this speculation and people are grasping at straws here ??? If it was proven then I apologize ...I must of missed it, At this point in time all that we know is that it is in Cheektowaga,and for people who are not familiar with this town, Its not a one horse town But I have seen people saying that they "Look Like" C'mon people Proof is needed not opinions......I for one would like to see this man hang..JMHO.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Bill,
Admittedly, a few of us have "jumped" to the conclusion that it is Chris. It was a very short jump. If we are wrong, then to whom do we apologize ? Chris ? Not !!! If we are right, are we to get a pat on the back for intuition ? Not worth the paper its written on either way Bill. According to the independent info provided, it was an apartment, it was a "he", it was 90 geckos, a "girlfriend" was involved in the lease, and the owner was motivated to not reclaim them. But I know, in Cheektowaga, "the gecko capital of the world", there are many who fit that definition It is also a bit of a non-issue, as it has nothing to do with the claim pending, and only a court order could put a hand on Chris's assets in the hopes of compensating others, and one is not to be had anytime soon.

Bobby, in a perfect world, I agree that one claim should be enough to get law-enforcement to give it a good look. Things just ain't perfect. Many have argued here that certain wheels of justice should be automatic, going back almost to the beginning of the thread. Those who have been involved with talking to attorneys trying to get just one to take up the cause have found out how automatic things are not. What is "fair and just" will butt heads with what is "practical" all day long. Your argument is not with me, for I do not set the rules in the State of New York !! It also doesn't mean its all going into the round file if Investigator Brown does not get ten.

Do not confuse fraud with theft. The threshold is lower for theft, in that just one taking of money or property involuntarily from the owner constitutes theft, and is easier to prove. In this mess, all the money was given voluntarily, so it isn't theft. Fraud is harder t prove, and requires either a pattern involving several entities, or an extended volume of communication with one entity, to have a solid case. I believe Investigator Brown wants to be able to put together a solid case showing a pattern. Now, go talk to attorneys !!

 

[Bill_Leverton]

Bill,
Admittedly, a few of us have "jumped" to the conclusion that it is Chris. It was a very short jump. If we are wrong, then to whom do we apologize ? Chris ? Not !!! If we are right, are we to get a pat on the back for intuition ? Not worth the paper its written on either way Bill. According to the independent info provided, it was an apartment, it was a "he", it was 90 geckos, a "girlfriend" was involved in the lease, and the owner was motivated to not reclaim them. But I know, in Cheektowaga, "the gecko capital of the world", there are many who fit that definition It is also a bit of a non-issue, as it has nothing to do with the claim pending, and only a court order could put a hand on Chris's assets in the hopes of compensating others, and one is not to be had anytime soon.

Oh fine !!!!!! What I do find funny though is that this happened and there isn't anything about in the local papers.....There was a guy locally that had animal control come and take his animals....and it was on the news....and all through the papers here In lower Upstate NY about 2 1/2 hours from Cheektowaga ...... yet this happened there and not a name or address was mentioned ......Hmmmmmmmmm make you
(me) wonder....If this really happened JMO

 

[SVT Snake]

Oh fine !!!!!! What I do find funny though is that this happened and there isn't anything about in the local papers.....There was a guy locally that had animal control come and take his animals....and it was on the news....and all through the papers here In lower Upstate NY about 2 1/2 hours from Cheektowaga ...... yet this happened there and not a name or address was mentioned ......Hmmmmmmmmm make you
(me) wonder....If this really happened JMO

I did in fact really happen. I got word of it through the DA a few days ago. However, he did not speculate if it was related to Chris or not.

 

[Chameleon Company]

Bill,
I think its possible that it didn't quite have enough "Wow" appeal. If it had been snakes or arachnids, especially if large snakes or anything venomous, then its possibly page 1. But a rack or two of geckos ? I am frankly a bit surprised that they were seized, but think that two things happened:

1) Law enforcement was motivated, and I credit that to efforts originating here, and followed through on by several; and

2) Fortunately, in this instance, Erie County had the necessary statutes to be able to seize the animals and at least require a process for the owner to go through to get back possession, with a 5 day limit to make the claim. Don't know whether it was a permit thing, a quantity thing, etc.

Back to this felony fraud thing. With just several claimants, Chris goes to court and says "Yes I took their money. I had every intention of filling their orders as soon as I got some more hets in. But things didn't go well, I managed my business poorly, and went out of business. Sorry." And the judge says "Buyer beware. Case dismissed". It is nothing more than a civil claim where Chris can get bankruptcy protection. We all know that. Does the need for a volume of claimants make better sense now? Chris's argument gets weaker with every additional claim, in that they can better make the case that he passed a threshold where he knew he couldn't fill orders, but still took the money, offered unsupported excuses, etc. Bingo !!