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Top Shelf Exotics (Inquiry)
- Thread starter tejasranger
- Start date
Chameleon Company
New member
I have to put this in. I'm not a gecko person, but it was widely assumed that Chris had some pricey gecko's, and likely some with genes het for big $ . It is likely that the SPCA took everything. Did Chris still have any of these high dollar animals ? If he did, and they were taken, don't expect that he then would have done everything possible to get them back. He's had a rough few months, is at the end of his rope, and rational behavior is not to be assumed. If this is Chris, of course. I am speculating that more than a couple here have made attempts to help the NY SPCA place a few geckos 
Bill_Leverton
New member
I didn't mean it to sound that way... I just thought if it did happen there would be some mention somewhere......other then on a board....the guy down here had a couple Iguanas and Scorpions and a few Savannah Monitors and it made the news .....Personally I just thought it would of made it in the papers somewhere.... But thats what I get for thinking I reckonshrap said:Yeah Bill,
The NY SPCA just put it on their website as a big joke or to draw traffic. It didnt really happen. Wow.
shrap
Freelance Philosopher
Well here is the link to the SPCA site about it that was posted earlier in this thread. Hopefully this gives it a little more credibility for you.
http://www.spcaec.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5741&news_iv_ctrl=1061
http://www.spcaec.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=5741&news_iv_ctrl=1061
Bill_Leverton
New member
Thanks Sammy, I did read that....already.. Twice....I guess seeing as I live in the same state...in the 2 1/2 drive people up there handle things differently.. No Name (who it was) Apartment (no address) Yes it is Chris Johnson and they are his, At this point, All I want to see is the people he ripped of get justice served.
ms_ramie22
New member
geckos
Do we know if these geckos that were siezed were all leopard geckos, or could some of them have been fat tails? Chris had done a trade with Shelly at Lizard Lair and received some awesome fat tails from her but never finished his end of the trade. Shelly, maybe your fat tails are in that bunch?
Do we know if these geckos that were siezed were all leopard geckos, or could some of them have been fat tails? Chris had done a trade with Shelly at Lizard Lair and received some awesome fat tails from her but never finished his end of the trade. Shelly, maybe your fat tails are in that bunch?
Chameleon Company
New member
If I were a gecko person, and had a couple of days, I would be at the Holiday Inn Express down the road from the Erie County SPCA right about now. Worst case scanario, I'd get smart while I slept !!
Bill, gotta love this quote from you, which has made this the longest thread in Fauna history, a record hopefully not soon broken, and a testament to house cleaning:
If Investigator Brown gets his threshold of complaints, and gets it to the DA, I can guarantee you that it will end up with Chris copping a plea in the months to come. Many here need to give themselves a "pat on the back". Besides the group effort, and money raised, this thread goaded Chris into some additional stupidity early on, when his ego demanded that he participate. BTW, save those emails. When Chris gave you all the excuses about Glenn and Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice being swamped, and goings-on "down at the shop", and it was that Communist organization "Fed Ex's" fault for limiting their profits, if those excuses are not true (and they are not), it bolsters the fraud case into the stratosphere. So for those who have followed this from the beginning, and despised Chris's arrogance in threads past, lets just say it will now be used against him bigtime. He who laughs last ......
Bill, gotta love this quote from you, which has made this the longest thread in Fauna history, a record hopefully not soon broken, and a testament to house cleaning:
If Investigator Brown gets his threshold of complaints, and gets it to the DA, I can guarantee you that it will end up with Chris copping a plea in the months to come. Many here need to give themselves a "pat on the back". Besides the group effort, and money raised, this thread goaded Chris into some additional stupidity early on, when his ego demanded that he participate. BTW, save those emails. When Chris gave you all the excuses about Glenn and Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice being swamped, and goings-on "down at the shop", and it was that Communist organization "Fed Ex's" fault for limiting their profits, if those excuses are not true (and they are not), it bolsters the fraud case into the stratosphere. So for those who have followed this from the beginning, and despised Chris's arrogance in threads past, lets just say it will now be used against him bigtime. He who laughs last ......
Lizard Lair
New member
Ramie, I plan on contacting the SPCA on the 5th. I can send them a couple of pictures to see if those particular geckos are in that group. Does anybody have a screen shot of the home page of Chris's Leopard Gecko website?
chondrogal
wench
Is it possible to put some sort of a lien on the geckos by the people Chris owed money/animals to? Were some of the animals ordered but not shipped geckos?
Chameleon Company
New member
Cathy,
You would need a judgement against him first, or some ironclad contract that had the geckos as collateral, etc. This was discussed at length earlier in the thread, but no one is going to start from the beginning here reading. A successful civil suit is highly unlikely, as it is pretty clear Chris has no assets that would not be protected by simple bankruptcy. Recovery has been unfortunately unrealistic from the beginning. While I regret seeing anyone do what Chris has done, as he certainly was born with potential to do better things than scam people of their money, I am also solidly in the camp that wants him to be made an example of. Maybe it will deter others from following in his footsteps.
You would need a judgement against him first, or some ironclad contract that had the geckos as collateral, etc. This was discussed at length earlier in the thread, but no one is going to start from the beginning here reading. A successful civil suit is highly unlikely, as it is pretty clear Chris has no assets that would not be protected by simple bankruptcy. Recovery has been unfortunately unrealistic from the beginning. While I regret seeing anyone do what Chris has done, as he certainly was born with potential to do better things than scam people of their money, I am also solidly in the camp that wants him to be made an example of. Maybe it will deter others from following in his footsteps.
Jim O
Careful with that axe...
Jim,Chameleon Company said:
Thank you for summing it up for those of us who have been erm...on vacation.
I have read bits and pieces of this 2000+ post thread. And I agree that he was born with more potential. Oh well. My first
since my return is for you Mr. Chris Johnson. Wear it with pride.The only thing left is for those of you with legitimate claims to file with the authorities so Chris can have a lengthy vacation at a penitentiary.
Jim
Lloyd Heilbrunn
Member
It boggles my mind that a thread which generates 2100+ posts, produces only 7 "depositions"......
reptilebreeder
New member
Indeed. Though I'm not surprised.Lloyd Heilbrunn said:
When there was the bearded pets fiasco, tons of people complained about them, and "how can they get away with advertising on KS" all the hoopla, and protestations, and yet a lot of time passed and only one person of all the people who had something to say, actually went through the "trouble" of lodging a complaint with KS. That was even easier to do, just click on the complaint link on KS, yet only one went through the trouble. A lot of apathy. Please people if you are reading this and have cause, fill out those depositions. Chris(and all the bad guys) need to know that the reptile community won't tolerate this kind of thing.
I believe if Chris is allowed to "get away with it" that it will send a resounding message to the bad guys..."look at the amount of damage Chris caused, and he got away with it". Bad guys will be tripping all over themselves, trying to defraud the reptile people. Will be pathetic to think that is the message sent, because people who lost thousands of dollars, didn't want to waste time filling out a depostion, or thought "what difference would it make?" Make a difference folks!
djs27uro
New member
There's a lot going on in this thread, so I'll try to break it down by topic:
PHOTOS FOR IDENTIFICATION: The SPCA is pretty busy. On top of that, they don't know much about reptiles. I don't think they took individual pictures of each gecko, but a few random shots to show general conditions. If anyone wants to send me a PM, upload pics to photobucket or something and PM me the url. I'll gladly return with photos from the same genotype and see if you can make a positive ID. Remember that I've only got 50% of the geckos and half of those are being fostered by individuals right now (but I can get a few shots still). Photographing the other half is going to be more difficult.
SPECIES: Yeah, these were just leopard geckos. So far, in the 45 we had, we've only been able to find one juvie male. The rest were small adult females. No fat tails in this group.
SEIZURE: It's my understanding that smell led investigators to this location. It was also smell and poor conditions of the apt. that led to the seizure of animals. It would be cool if this were part of a larger operation, but it was a fluke that this happened. There had been no previous information on the individuals in question before this event. Police called the SPCA on a Sunday morning and said, "what the heck do we do?". If the apartment had been clean, the geckos would probably have stayed put. There was initially some report of apartment abandonment, anywhere from 7-30 days. Someone calling to complain (neighbor? landlord?) might have said something like, "There's smell and no one has been seen going in or out in X number of days...". My girlfriend looked at the intake sheet and made a mental note of the address. It does exist. However, if it were Johnson, you've got to remember these were at a girlfriend's apartment and probably not the same one everybody did business at. On top of that, Johnson once told me that he kept many animals out of state at a "warehouse". I don't know if he was lying or not. Back when I thought he was a potentially ok guy, I mentioned to him that the tiger salamanders he was selling on his page were protected in NYS and this warehouse thing was his response. BTW, I too am surprised it didn't get mentioned in the paper. It was all over the news, but I don't watch any TV. Do know that this thread has been brought to the attention of the SPCA and Johnson will be a name associated with reptiles.
VALUE: Well, I'm sure these geckos are worth a fraction of what they should be. Everything was grouped by genotype, but nothing was labeled. So, we have no idea who's het for what.
PEOPLE WHO GOT RIPPED OFF: If anyone paid money for geckos and he never shipped them, please send me a PM with your original post in this thread. For this, I would confirm whether or not it was Chris and see if anything could be worked out. I will talk with the rest of my group about people who got ripped off. Honestly though, we've only got half and as I said before, I think they are worth a fraction of the cost as we don't know genotypes. It sounds like a lot of people lost money with ball pythons. I'm sorry to hear all of this has occurred. My grudge against Johnson is more of a personal issue as I saw his true colors shine through a few years back.
GECKO LEIN: The individual in question no longer owns these animals. Even if it were Chris, it's too late according to NYS law I believe. Basically, it's the same thing if you lose your dog. Once it gets picked up by animal control, you have 5 days to claim your dog. After that, it either goes up for adoption or gets killed. The SPCA has released all geckos to outside groups hoping they can find homes. They didn't have the man power to deal with these animals. Some geckos have already been adopted out, thankfully. No one noticed that 90 leopard geckos were missing for over 5 days.
ON FRAUD CHARGES: The indictment process sounds a lot like nailing someone for smuggling or selling illegal animals. The feds let you get away with it and they just keep tracking activity. More often than not, they let someone get away with it 5-10 times to help build up a more firm case against the individual. The trial process has got to be lengthy, time consuming and costly. If you've got a weak to medium case, I can see why they wouldn't want to take any chances. To me though, it does seem wacky that someone can get away with it a few times and the threshold is 10...
PERSONAL NOTE: I'm going to be damn careful who gets my address right now... I'll be that creepy guy meeting people in a dark parking lot with the animal to make the adoption. lol. Seriously though, a few pet stores have let me use their venue for adoptions. I know of at least two cases where individuals were gaged/bound/pushed down stairs and had animals stolen at their house... Scary stuff.
PHOTOS FOR IDENTIFICATION: The SPCA is pretty busy. On top of that, they don't know much about reptiles. I don't think they took individual pictures of each gecko, but a few random shots to show general conditions. If anyone wants to send me a PM, upload pics to photobucket or something and PM me the url. I'll gladly return with photos from the same genotype and see if you can make a positive ID. Remember that I've only got 50% of the geckos and half of those are being fostered by individuals right now (but I can get a few shots still). Photographing the other half is going to be more difficult.
SPECIES: Yeah, these were just leopard geckos. So far, in the 45 we had, we've only been able to find one juvie male. The rest were small adult females. No fat tails in this group.
SEIZURE: It's my understanding that smell led investigators to this location. It was also smell and poor conditions of the apt. that led to the seizure of animals. It would be cool if this were part of a larger operation, but it was a fluke that this happened. There had been no previous information on the individuals in question before this event. Police called the SPCA on a Sunday morning and said, "what the heck do we do?". If the apartment had been clean, the geckos would probably have stayed put. There was initially some report of apartment abandonment, anywhere from 7-30 days. Someone calling to complain (neighbor? landlord?) might have said something like, "There's smell and no one has been seen going in or out in X number of days...". My girlfriend looked at the intake sheet and made a mental note of the address. It does exist. However, if it were Johnson, you've got to remember these were at a girlfriend's apartment and probably not the same one everybody did business at. On top of that, Johnson once told me that he kept many animals out of state at a "warehouse". I don't know if he was lying or not. Back when I thought he was a potentially ok guy, I mentioned to him that the tiger salamanders he was selling on his page were protected in NYS and this warehouse thing was his response. BTW, I too am surprised it didn't get mentioned in the paper. It was all over the news, but I don't watch any TV. Do know that this thread has been brought to the attention of the SPCA and Johnson will be a name associated with reptiles.
VALUE: Well, I'm sure these geckos are worth a fraction of what they should be. Everything was grouped by genotype, but nothing was labeled. So, we have no idea who's het for what.
PEOPLE WHO GOT RIPPED OFF: If anyone paid money for geckos and he never shipped them, please send me a PM with your original post in this thread. For this, I would confirm whether or not it was Chris and see if anything could be worked out. I will talk with the rest of my group about people who got ripped off. Honestly though, we've only got half and as I said before, I think they are worth a fraction of the cost as we don't know genotypes. It sounds like a lot of people lost money with ball pythons. I'm sorry to hear all of this has occurred. My grudge against Johnson is more of a personal issue as I saw his true colors shine through a few years back.
GECKO LEIN: The individual in question no longer owns these animals. Even if it were Chris, it's too late according to NYS law I believe. Basically, it's the same thing if you lose your dog. Once it gets picked up by animal control, you have 5 days to claim your dog. After that, it either goes up for adoption or gets killed. The SPCA has released all geckos to outside groups hoping they can find homes. They didn't have the man power to deal with these animals. Some geckos have already been adopted out, thankfully. No one noticed that 90 leopard geckos were missing for over 5 days.
ON FRAUD CHARGES: The indictment process sounds a lot like nailing someone for smuggling or selling illegal animals. The feds let you get away with it and they just keep tracking activity. More often than not, they let someone get away with it 5-10 times to help build up a more firm case against the individual. The trial process has got to be lengthy, time consuming and costly. If you've got a weak to medium case, I can see why they wouldn't want to take any chances. To me though, it does seem wacky that someone can get away with it a few times and the threshold is 10...
PERSONAL NOTE: I'm going to be damn careful who gets my address right now... I'll be that creepy guy meeting people in a dark parking lot with the animal to make the adoption. lol. Seriously though, a few pet stores have let me use their venue for adoptions. I know of at least two cases where individuals were gaged/bound/pushed down stairs and had animals stolen at their house... Scary stuff.
critical bill
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djs27uro said:
I chatted with Chris last year when he first reported he was ill with "mono". In the friendly emails that we exchanged back and forth...he told me once or twice that he was moving down south to Florida by the end of the 05 because he just couldn't stand the cold winters and snow shoveling anymore. Said he was leaving it all to me and my snow plow.
Is it possible thats where he is right now? Sure. I think thats where he is.
Who is he working for? I also wonder if Allison from MoonlitMedia might have spoken with him being he was her client? Maybe she has some information?
One thing I don't understand....
On her updated website portfolio (link below) it lists Top Shelf Exotics location as Texas. Is that a typo?
critical bill
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critical bill said:
Sorry about the link...
http://www.moonlitmedia.com/portfolio.htm
What I was trying to get at...did Chris perhaps contact her to change his location to reflect where he may have been fleeing....errrrr.... moving to?
saltwaterreptiles
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There are a lot of leopard photos to be found on Chris's site directory here...
http://www.topshelfexotic.com/images/
I don't know if any there can be matched conclusively to any that were involved in the seizure? But might be worth a look...
http://www.topshelfexotic.com/images/
I don't know if any there can be matched conclusively to any that were involved in the seizure? But might be worth a look...
saltwaterreptiles
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Sorry I meant to post this link instead...
http://www.topshelfexotic.com/photogallery/thumbnails.php?album=6
http://www.topshelfexotic.com/photogallery/thumbnails.php?album=6
groovygeckos
GroovyGeckos.com
I really never once thought Chris Johnson was legitimate. Funny actually I called him out somewhere in the Leopard Gecko forum one day. I told him something to the effect of "your business just popped up out of the blue, and noone had ever heard of you before". I had never heard of him or this 'company' (TSE), and he just apperred here one day. Great stories he had to tell, enough to get y`all to believe he even had any high end snakes for sale. One day it was high end geckos, which we had all seen pics of, the next it was high end snakes, that noone has ever really seen? Then all of a sudden he is one of the 'big guys' in BP`s? OMG, If only someone would have listened to me, but I was made out to be the bad guy of course! This perhaps is part of the reason he badmouthed me, and made such a stink about the Mack Snow incident. LOL Little man has got another thing coming to him, thats for sure.
Jim O, so nice to see you here. You have finally stopped sticking up for this POS I see.
Jim O, so nice to see you here. You have finally stopped sticking up for this POS I see.
groovygeckos
GroovyGeckos.com
*Appeared