Bad Guy Touch of Class Reptiles

[alexestrada17]

I wasn't suggesting you did. The snakes appear to have the same pattern as in the photo. I was emphasising your role/responsibility in this matter. I don't believe those conditions would present themselves within 2-3 days....at least not in that severity. Despite your claim of being truthful, I don't think anyone on here believes those lesions would form in that short time frame.

Hopefully, you can help out.

I know Mike, I'm sorry if i made it seem like you suggested it. I was just making a statemnt on that matter.

 

[turbine]

The Touch of Class photos don't look touched up. Unless the person who took the picture (with a point and shoot camera) is an expert with photoshop, which I highly doubt.
I keep trying to look for the lesions on the touch of class photos. What really bothers me, is in every picture a hand is covering those areas. That seems a little fishy.
Jason, I'm sorry you had to go through this. The owner of A Touch of Class should be ashamed.

 

[deborahbroadus]

The Touch of Class photos don't look touched up. Unless the person who took the picture (with a point and shoot camera) is an expert with photoshop, which I highly doubt.
I keep trying to look for the lesions on the touch of class photos. What really bothers me, is in every picture a hand is covering those areas. That seems a little fishy.
Jason, I'm sorry you had to go through this. The owner of A Touch of Class should be ashamed.

Did I miss it? Who's holding the snake?

 

[alexestrada17]

Did I miss it? Who's holding the snake?

Deb,

The one holding the snakes is the employee that cares for all the snakes. And trust me, the snakes were not positioned in any specific way to hide any sort of scars or defects. I have already made Kelvin aware of the pictures comparing the snakes and that they are in fact our snakes. So everyone be patient, I'm trying to do what i know is right here.

 

[SoLA]

Awesome, now we have a complete set of dates. The photos sent to Jason was of the snake on 11-13. He did not get an updated photo when he paid on 11-18 (5 days or 120 hours later). The snakes were shipped out and received at 4pm on 11-20 (40 hours from payment, so a total of 160 hours from the photos that the OP was convinced to buy them).

But the Touch of Class testimony is that in the last 51 hours and 45 minutes the OP had them and was able to prepare photos and medical proof these were unhealthy snakes, he must have done something to make these snakes ill.

And it is disgusting to think that getting them vet care right away was the thing he did wrong to not get his refund.

This guy not getting his money back is theft, simple as that.

 

[watsoncj]

This guy not getting his money back is theft, simple as that.

Totally agree.

 

[KingBowser]

I know I'll never buy from them. The first photo sent on 11/13 to the buyer is a beautiful snake. Too bad it ended up infected, black, and eventually dead due to obvious neglect.

 

[Riyo]

As someone who is trained in Adobe: Photoshop and works with it frequently I'm going to throw in my 2 cents here and agree with Turbine. Those photos have not been altered. It is not easy by any means to achieve an unnoticeable 'fix' like that to a photo. The only post processing that could have been used would be something along the lines of brightness/contrast/levels, but I doubt it.

I have also noticed with digital cameras there is usually a graininess to the pictures.

I have no experience with Touch of Class (Though I've seen them at shows) but after seeing this I will make sure to steer clear! OP, I'm sorry you've gone through that and that the snakes are in such terrible condition.

 

[MikeCurtin]

I have already made Kelvin aware of the pictures comparing the snakes and that they are in fact our snakes. So everyone be patient, I'm trying to do what i know is right here.

Hopefully he'll step up and take care of this.

 

[TailsWithScales]

This is what i have been saying the whole time. The pictures i posted are the snakes i sent. And no, even though everyone wants to believe that the pictures were taken when we first got the snakes...that is defiantly not true. The picture was taken 11/13/09. I know this because we had another customer asking for a pair of ETB and wanted pictures, Kelvin probed the Emeralds and separated the two from the rest. I then took pictures and sent them to the customer. (The email was still in the "Sent" folder)...When i shipped the snakes there was no scars or fungus...Is this really that hard to believe? Perhaps this "dormant" or "incubating" fungus "awoke" because stress of shipping? Sure, it could have happened. All i know is that i have been completely truthful on here, therefore have nothing more to prove. Jason, I wish you the best with your studies, you will make a great Vet. I also wish that snake a speedy recovery. I also, hope you can work something out with Kelvin.

Take Care,
Alex Estrada

The point you seem to be missing Alex is that the damage to the deceased animal takes WEEKS!! Not hours. Fungal infections or skin infections that severe do not just show up in 52 hours. I'm sorry it just doesn't. I worked as a Vet Tech specializing in exotics for four years and have done studies in vet med. I have also worked with ETB's for 10 years. I'm sorry but I do not buy for a second that that snake was 'perfect' and normal upon shipping. Something stinks and it sure as hell isn't the deceased snake!

Rarely does something like this hang dormant and IF it does it's usually because of very poor husbandry (which I already stated in my first post) which would be low or no heat at all, improper lighting and so forth and so on. I noticed in one photo there is an ETB in a rubbermaid with seemingly no heat, logs, water, or light. Is this what it was being kept in from the time ToC received till the OP bought it???? Sure as hell wouldn't surprise me. Malnutrition is another cause. The for sale ad said "Feeding like mad" or something along those lines. The snakes picture both alive and dead ARE NOT the pictures of animals that are feeding like mad. Snakes that are "feeding like mad" are round not triangle shaped.

I know you "only packed the snakes" but that does not absolve you from having a part in this major error as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TailsWithScales]

Actually I do have another question.

EXACTLY how were those snakes packed????? I am asking for a step by step process of how you packed the snakes. Please.

 

[alexestrada17]

The point you seem to be missing Alex is that the damage to the deceased animal takes WEEKS!! Not hours. Fungal infections or skin infections that severe do not just show up in 52 hours. I'm sorry it just doesn't. I worked as a Vet Tech specializing in exotics for four years and have done studies in vet med. I have also worked with ETB's for 10 years. I'm sorry but I do not buy for a second that that snake was 'perfect' and normal upon shipping. Something stinks and it sure as hell isn't the deceased snake!

Rarely does something like this hang dormant and IF it does it's usually because of very poor husbandry (which I already stated in my first post) which would be low or no heat at all, improper lighting and so forth and so on. I noticed in one photo there is an ETB in a rubbermaid with seemingly no heat, logs, water, or light. Is this what it was being kept in from the time ToC received till the OP bought it???? Sure as hell wouldn't surprise me. Malnutrition is another cause. The for sale ad said "Feeding like mad" or something along those lines. The snakes picture both alive and dead ARE NOT the pictures of animals that are feeding like mad. Snakes that are "feeding like mad" are round not triangle shaped.

I know you "only packed the snakes" but that does not absolve you from having a part in this major error as far as I'm concerned.

I'm done on this thread here. Seriously. Why is it that no one understands? How many times do i have to say it? WHEN I PACKED THE SNAKES THEY HAD NO FUNGUS OR SCARS. Kelvin has already emailed Jason in reference to a refund. I dont understand why everyone has to keep going on and on..a old page closes..and then people dig and dig (sometimes some outrageous situations are proposed) to open a new page. Kelvin separated two snakes. He saw them before they were shipped, i saw them as well, no fungus or scars were on them...then the snakes arrived in terrible shape...what would you like me to do? I have already talked to Kelvin and told him to fix this problem with Jason. This is really getting ridiculous as everything being posted on this thread is becoming repetitive.

 

[Olexian Pro]

Hey everyone, Jason Here,

This is the email Kelvin sent me:

Date: Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:35 PM

Jason,

If you would like we can give you a partial refund ($250.00) for dead snake.
We also send you a healthy juvi free of charge. Please let know if this works,

Thanks,
Kelvin Soto
Owner TOuch of Class

I will be contacting him when I return from my evening treatments in the barn later tonight and will pst my response for all to see. Also amy the tech who witnessed the receipt has told me that she will be login on later to post her testimony confirming the snakes condition on arrival. For those of you who don't know Amy is a certified veterinary technician at University of Georgia's Anesthesia Department. Again thanks for reading and I will share my reply with you later.

 

[Olexian Pro]

Also please forgive my spelling. I am in a bit of a hurry to return to the barn. Thanx

 

[ophidile]

Well it's good to hear he's trying to make this better. Hope you reach an agreement.

Hey everyone, Jason Here,

This is the email Kelvin sent me:

Date: Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:35 PM

Jason,

If you would like we can give you a partial refund ($250.00) for dead snake.
We also send you a healthy juvi free of charge. Please let know if this works,

Thanks,
Kelvin Soto
Owner TOuch of Class

I will be contacting him when I return from my evening treatments in the barn later tonight and will pst my response for all to see. Also amy the tech who witnessed the receipt has told me that she will be login on later to post her testimony confirming the snakes condition on arrival. For those of you who don't know Amy is a certified veterinary technician at University of Georgia's Anesthesia Department. Again thanks for reading and I will share my reply with you later.

 

[ReptileJay]

I'm done on this thread here. Seriously. Why is it that no one understands? How many times do i have to say it? WHEN I PACKED THE SNAKES THEY HAD NO FUNGUS OR SCARS. Kelvin has already emailed Jason in reference to a refund. I dont understand why everyone has to keep going on and on..a old page closes..and then people dig and dig (sometimes some outrageous situations are proposed) to open a new page. Kelvin separated two snakes. He saw them before they were shipped, i saw them as well, no fungus or scars were on them...then the snakes arrived in terrible shape...what would you like me to do? I have already talked to Kelvin and told him to fix this problem with Jason. This is really getting ridiculous as everything being posted on this thread is becoming repetitive.

Did you do a microbial analysis of the snake's blood prior to shipping it out???
You seem to continue to emphasize that the snake "Had No Fungus" prior to shipping... but how would you even know???

On top of that, the scars were clearly long term wounds. Nothing could have been done in 2 days to injure a snake that badly, then miraculously heal the snake leaving nothing but a scar. That injury HAD to have occurred long before shipping.

The fact that your "Boss" refuses to face this situation like a reasonable businessman, but instead makes a SINGLE post claiming over and over that the buyer did not make the problem known quickly enough. The reasoning was CLEARLY explained by the buyer, and as a student myself, I completely understand where he is coming from. The TOS does NOT give a clearly defined timeline, thus was not violated.

One other small point... it takes a little time to run a microbial analysis as the buyer did. Samples have to be collected, stained, observed, photographed, labeled, and analyzed. It is not unreasonable that an email was not sent INSTANTLY considering that such an analysis was done.

 

[esteytech]

Hello all,

My name is Amy. I am a close friend of Jason's. As he stated in his previous posts I am a registered veterinary technician and work in the anesthesia department at University of Georgia's School of Veterinary Medicine. I was present when Jason removed the two snakes from the bag contained inside the box they were shipped in. I cannot say whether, or not, the individuals depicted in the Touch of Class Add are the same as the individuals he received, but I can say that that the individuals he received are the individuals depicted in the link below:

http://sites.google.com/site/olexianpro/animals-received-by-jason-from-touch-of-class

I was present when he removed these individuals from their containment and at his request, I also assisted Jason in obtaining the blood samples, tape preps and fine needle aspirates that he used to identify the organisms depicted in the pictures located at the link below:

http://sites.google.com/site/olexianpro/supportive-lab-data

I am not a veterinarian, so legally I cannot diagnose, or comment on the nature of the disease affecting these individuals, but I can say that the information that Jason has provided is strongly representative of the condition they were in at the time that he received them. I do not know much about exotic animal medicine, but I do know that these individuals were obviously diseased and that they were not representative of what might be considered healthy individuals. I am prepared to offer Jason my full support in any action that he chooses to pursue and would be happy to answer any questions regarding the condition of these individuals at the time that they were received. Please forgive any future delays in may response. It is very difficult for me to gain access to a computer for this purpose while at work. Thank you.

 

[MikeCurtin]

I'm done on this thread here. Seriously. Why is it that no one understands? How many times do i have to say it? WHEN I PACKED THE SNAKES THEY HAD NO FUNGUS OR SCARS. Kelvin has already emailed Jason in reference to a refund. I dont understand why everyone has to keep going on and on..a old page closes..and then people dig and dig (sometimes some outrageous situations are proposed) to open a new page. Kelvin separated two snakes. He saw them before they were shipped, i saw them as well, no fungus or scars were on them...then the snakes arrived in terrible shape...what would you like me to do? I have already talked to Kelvin and told him to fix this problem with Jason. This is really getting ridiculous as everything being posted on this thread is becoming repetitive.

I can tell you why I don't understand.

1. I don't understand because it defies logic that 2 perfectly healthy ETB's can develop such a sever condition within the time it takes to ship, receive, test, and notify.
2. I don't understand because it defies common sense to believe that the exact part of the snake that is severely injured is conveniently covered in each and every photo posted of this animal at your facility, despite numerous pictures of other available animals photographed inside their enclosures, or otherwise fully visible.
3. I don't understand because it defies my sensibilities that someone could receive snakes in that condition, and the owner of the company for which you are now the public spokesman, would rather complain about the 2 days it took the buyer to notify him than address the actual issue at hand.

You seem to have made a valid attempt to help convince Kelvin to rectify this situation. I don't think his offer is fair in the least, but it is an offer nonetheless. Try your best not to Scolaro yourself, okay? Cause right now it looks like your reputation is linked to that of your boss....is it really worth it?

 

[MikeCurtin]

Thank you for your input, Amy.

 

[alexestrada17]

I can tell you why I don't understand.

1. I don't understand because it defies logic that 2 perfectly healthy ETB's can develop such a sever condition within the time it takes to ship, receive, test, and notify.
2. I don't understand because it defies common sense to believe that the exact part of the snake that is severely injured is conveniently covered in each and every photo posted of this animal at your facility, despite numerous pictures of other available animals photographed inside their enclosures, or otherwise fully visible.
3. I don't understand because it defies my sensibilities that someone could receive snakes in that condition, and the owner of the company for which you are now the public spokesman, would rather complain about the 2 days it took the buyer to notify him than address the actual issue at hand.

You seem to have made a valid attempt to help convince Kelvin to rectify this situation. I don't think his offer is fair in the least, but it is an offer nonetheless. Try your best not to Scolaro yourself, okay? Cause right now it looks like your reputation is linked to that of your boss....is it really worth it?

No Mike it really is not worth it. =/