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Translucent calyptratus, your opinions.

I do not know what chamleons look like as hatchlings. If they were older, then I would really be impressed. To me I am reminded of a mouse pinky, you can easily see through them to their veins. So I would not be surprised if they stay skin pink on the translucent part of the body.

So, I say they are pretty cool looking. It will be interesting if this is a new trait that breeds out on the entire body.
 
Translucent-Calyptratus

Hi
If you need some more information about this new morph please feel free to ask.
We have found a strange looking male in a shipment with wc calyptratus and we have breed him with normal calyptratus in this clutch are also 2 strange looking females .Now we have breed this females with the father and have had this new trait of "translucent" calyptratus.
Regards
Michael Spellbrink
 
Michael, is there any way that you can provide a pic of an adult? Keep up the good work man, it's amazing to see a morph out there for Calyptratuses.
 
Michael,
It certainly is interesting, and I hope that all works out for you. Whether a genetic variation, or a genatic defect, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. As we have seen with many of the ball-python variations, some degree of initial in-breeding is necessary to establish the morph, and you mention that you have bred sire with daughters. It is our experience, working primarily with pardalis, that chameleon bloodlines weaken enormously with in-breeding, often to the point of non-viability with even the first generaton. I hope that you are able to manifest this variation, by out-breeding, in-breeding, or any mechanism that yields results, if for no other reason than just to prove that it can be done.
 
It looks to me that the scales are missing in the fleshy areas. Not something I would want.
 
This just says genetic defect to me and I dont see how breading it would be beneficial to the species. I would never buy one especially for that price...
 
if im not mistaking, then this is the same guy how sell calyptratus albinos in germany. I hate the albino thing, because chams are not like other albinos, chams need lot of uvb light and how can that be healthy for a albino cham?
 
Photos of the juveniles can be seen here: http://www.chamaeleo.com/calyptratus/
Photos of adults can be seen here: http://reptilienzuechter.de/index.php?id=35&L=1

My concern with these animals is how they are going to take and react to UVB radiation in the areas void of pigmentation. This pieball like morph is one thing in snakes that do not require UVB radiation for calcium pathways but I feel this could potentially be a highly deleterious genetic defect. I'm all for maintaining a select few of these bloodlines around, outbreeding them and over time, determining exactly how prone to problems they are but I fear that if this new morph jumps into the spot of the new "in" mutation, the future metabolic and/or skin conditions in these animals could be serious and result in high loses unless they are seriously worked with prior to being mass produced. To me, the price tag seems to indicate more of an attempt to start a breeding frenzy and get rich then to set up a situation where it is determined just how to deal with the potential conditions these chams may face BEFORE they are mass produced. Just my opinion...

Chris
 
Hey Chris,
I didn't want to be quite as blunt, but I am also exceedingly pessimistic of the viability of these animals, both genetically, functionally, and from a marketing standpoint. One can look at the money in ball pythons and just drool. But just for laughs, imagine a cinnamon pastel panther chameleon ! Heck, I can cross an Ambanja with a Sambava and get a new color morph any time I want !! Essentially, while I have no problem with anyone tagging a high price on their "new locale" or morph, or translucent, etc, and hope that they get every penny (I benefit from high chameleon prices too !), there just isn't IMO a market to sustain something like this beyond a few extra shekels. And then, as fragile as chameleons can be with any multi-generational breeding, the chance of this offering becoming common widespread is beyond a long shot. This variation is absolutely not a hardier animal, and is by all logic more fragile, as you point out. But if they pull it off over on the continent ........ kudos!
 
Chris Anderson said:
Photos of the juveniles can be seen here: http://www.chamaeleo.com/calyptratus/
Photos of adults can be seen here: http://reptilienzuechter.de/index.php?id=35&L=1

My concern with these animals is how they are going to take and react to UVB radiation in the areas void of pigmentation. This pieball like morph is one thing in snakes that do not require UVB radiation for calcium pathways but I feel this could potentially be a highly deleterious genetic defect. I'm all for maintaining a select few of these bloodlines around, outbreeding them and over time, determining exactly how prone to problems they are but I fear that if this new morph jumps into the spot of the new "in" mutation, the future metabolic and/or skin conditions in these animals could be serious and result in high loses unless they are seriously worked with prior to being mass produced. To me, the price tag seems to indicate more of an attempt to start a breeding frenzy and get rich then to set up a situation where it is determined just how to deal with the potential conditions these chams may face BEFORE they are mass produced. Just my opinion...

Chris
Click to expand...

that was just what I wrote, guess your english is just better then mine.

another thing is that, we have never seen them in the nature, and that is enough answer to me.
 
However marketable new color variation in chameleons might be, I
don't see this as being so popular - it's ugly. Neat, yeah. Interesting,
sure. But it's not as nice as a normal veiled color pattern. When you're
dealing with some of the most colorful animals on the planet, mutations
like this don't do much for them. While a python looks cool when it's
lacking pigment, a chamelen looks, well...less cool.

For instance, a really nice panther will go for $150 - $300. An albino
version would be lacking everything that makes it valuable in the first
place - literally!

I think the market will show that mutations like albinism and such are
less desirable in chameleons than in other reptiles.
 
Eric,
I am laughing at myself a bit here. I cannot argue with your logic. You have no idea how many times I have seen a chameleon for sale somewhere, here .... KS .. other forums, and said "its not worth half that", or "what fool is going to pay that" etc. and then in the very next breath said "I hope the seller gets it"! It would be accurate to assume that if buyers are found for these chameleons at $4K a pop, then I want to know who the customers are, as I have a few bridges for sale !!
 
I can tell you who the customers are - the breeders. Nobody's going to
spend that much on them unless they think they can breed them
themselves and sell al lth ebabies for that much. What we'll see, is a few
breeders gettign them (thoguh I doubt for even a thousand a pair), and
then selling them to breeders, and repeat - when they finally sell in
number, they'll be cheaper.

I mean, does "the public"(as in non-breeding) actually pay $350 for a
new locale pardalis, or is it just breeder to breeder?!?

I have no problem with people offering these thigns at high prices. Let the market decide the price. Like pardalis, if you canget $300 a pop, get it - keep demand high, so it's worth it to breed the things.

I got $75 each for most of my last calyptratus - nearly double the price of most breeders. But people saw enough value in the bloodline for it to be worth it to them. Ain't capitalism great?

Eric A
 
I would have to agree with most of the posts on this thread. While breeding is a business for the breeders, the quality of the product that is offered should reflect the price tag. I think that chameleon breeders, like breeders of any other captive animal species, have an ethical obligation to improve our captive bread populations. If an individual animal has a defect that may be passed on to further generations, it hardly seems like it does anyone any favors, including the chams, to keep breeding them. It seems like most cham breeders I have come across really care about their stock and have great chams to offer.

Hopefully these breeders are the same. If this new morph has no defects linked with its bare legs, then like Jim said, more power to them. I would be more convinced, however, if they were out-bread and there were several generations displaying this color variation without any health problems associated with it.

-Julie
 
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