Trashing peoples animals in classifieds

[deborahbroadus]

That's why you have the PM option, if I find someone made an error as far as genetics I'm going to PM them so I don't seem like an ass or trying to kill there ad, and you also must realize a lot of people know less of genetics or how actual combination morphs look like and just try to bash ads thinking they are know it alls, or possibly try to ruin an ad so it may sell cheaper or not even sell at all... A lot of people within our own community are assholes and do not respect other individuals or ads. At the end of the day it's a classified ad, not a debate forum.. You know how many sulas and selayars I've seen which were none other than typical mainlanders???? Instead of saying anything to ruin their ad, I leave it be and let the ignorant consumers buy the animal, because if someone is truley into retics as am I, they'd spot bullshit on first glance.. I see people blatantly lying and some of them are not so much lying, but believing a false truth... in example I'm not trying to call anyone out but there is a cateater for sale which I'm almost certain is a typical afrock, now the person selling it is full on knowing what it is as that is what was sold to him, so he is not so much lying as he believes it is the real deal, but in my eyes I know what that really is and instead of further bashing his ad, I leave it alone, as it's up to the consumer to buy the herp, no one is putting a gun to their head if they want it and see it thru pics and are happy then who cares... I'll market a normal tiger as an albino super, post pics of the tiger and sell it for the albino super price, now who's the idiot??? Me selling it, or you buying it??? I see no need in correcting ads, for that very reason, let people be sneaky and do as they please because at the end of the day it is up to our judgment to aquire the animal. Don't buy hets with out paperwork unless you know are absolutley sure where they are comming from, dont buy any locales without knowledge of locales and how they actually look as opposed to what you read in the ad, and don't bash peoples ads, try PMing and if they are full on lying and being scam artists multiple times over, I believe that is what the BOI is for.

So, what you seem to be saying is, "Let the Scammers and Idiots make money, don't be proactive, be reactive. Furthermore, don't help the consumer at all in the initial purchase, let them help themselves, and if they get screwed, they can come to the BOI ...that's why the BOI exists?"

 

[polasian]

I agree Deb, however I also partly agree with Omar. Up until now I've been posting hypotheticals...the following is a perfect real-life example of how quickly things can go wrong.

I ALMOST made a HUGE mistake and was THIS close to spamming someones classified ad. Yesterday I saw an ad for a "Motley." (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=853757&postcount=1) After seeing those pictures, no one on this planet could have convinced me that that animal is in fact a Motley. There was NO question in my mind that those images were NOT of a Motley. The side patterns were inconsistent with a "typical" Motley, belly pics weren't provided (possibly to hide something ), etc...

I had a very matter-of-fact reply of "That is NOT a Motley" all typed up and ready to be posted. However, even though (at the time) I was 110% sure that was NOT a Motley, I decided to step away from the computer...smoke a cigarette...clear my head...and come back. Instead of posting in that ad, I PMed the OP with my concerns. The OP replied with his thoughts and I waited for more info and pics to be posted, prior to "warning" others.

After seeing the new pictures and info on that Motley (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=855870&postcount=11) ...I will admit that I was WAY off! As sure as I was previously that that was NOT a Motley, I am now sure that that IS a Motley. Motleys are a very distinctive pattern morph and I've owned both Colombian and CA Motleys in the past, YET I was still mistaken. Had I jumped to conclusions and posted my "warning," all I would have accomplished was to spew my ignorance which would have stemmed an irrelevant debate. I was literally one click away from being the EXACT reason why this thread was started in the first place.

Admitting that I was WAY off on the identification of that animal, is very embarrassing for me to even share with you guys ...but I think it makes a good point. Fortunately I was able to take my own advice and used better judgment by opening a duologue with the OP prior to spamming his thread.

The moral of the story...like Ed said "Ce La Vie." That's life, and like in any other situation in life, use good judgement. Even if your intentions are good, be sure to have your facts straight. Unless you have unquestionably definitive evidence (stolen pictures being used, or someone selling a Sulcata Tortoise and calling it a Salvador Monitor, etc...) that something is "off," stay out of it altogether. Otherwise your well-intentioned post will be a big slap to the face of this site.

And yes, to the OP's...if you don't want to deal with the possibility of someone spamming your ad, then lock it.

 

[deborahbroadus]

I agree Deb, however I also partly agree with Omar. Up until now I've been posting hypotheticals...the following is a perfect real-life example of how quickly things can go wrong.

I ALMOST made a HUGE mistake and was THIS close to spamming someones classified ad. Yesterday I saw an ad for a "Motley." (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=853757&postcount=1) After seeing those pictures, no one on this planet could have convinced me that that animal is in fact a Motley. There was NO question in my mind that those images were NOT of a Motley. The side patterns were inconsistent with a "typical" Motley, belly pics weren't provided (possibly to hide something ), etc...

I had a very matter-of-fact reply of "That is NOT a Motley" all typed up and ready to be posted. However, even though (at the time) I was 110% sure that was NOT a Motley, I decided to step away from the computer...smoke a cigarette...clear my head...and come back. Instead of posting in that ad, I PMed the OP with my concerns. The OP replied with his thoughts and I waited for more info and pics to be posted, prior to "warning" others.

After seeing the new pictures and info on that Motley (http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showpost.php?p=855870&postcount=11) ...I will admit that I was WAY off! As sure as I was previously that that was NOT a Motley, I am now sure that that IS a Motley. Motleys are a very distinctive pattern morph and I've owned both Colombian and CA Motleys in the past, YET I was still mistaken. Had I jumped to conclusions and posted my "warning," all I would have accomplished was to spew my ignorance which would have stemmed an irrelevant debate. I was literally one click away from being the EXACT reason why this thread was started in the first place.

Admitting that I was WAY off on the identification of that animal, is very embarrassing for me to even share with you guys ...but I think it makes a good point. Fortunately I was able to take my own advice and used better judgment by opening a duologue with the OP prior to spamming his thread.

The moral of the story...like Ed said "Ce La Vie." That's life, and like in any other situation in life, use good judgement. Even if your intentions are good, be sure to have your facts straight. Unless you have unquestionably definitive evidence (stolen pictures being used, or someone selling a Sulcata Tortoise and calling it a Salvador Monitor, etc...) that something is "off," stay out of it altogether. Otherwise your well-intentioned post will be a big slap to the face of this site.

And yes, to the OP's...if you don't want to deal with the possibility of someone spamming your ad, then lock it.

*We can all make mistakes consumer and seller. Asking questions about paperwork, prior ownership is one way for consumers to protect themselves.

A business that will only conduct business over the phone won't get my business, because that mode of communication doesn't leave a paper trail. In the sam way, locking a thread is going to have me and savvy customers looking the otherway, because if everything in the Ad is in order and the person has a good reputation, then spamming is not the norm (the "haters" can be identified).

Otherwise, I am in complete agreement that spamming or cracking on someone's attempt at selling is not professional behavior among breeders. BUT remember this is Fauna..and what does it look like if we seem to be advocating letting the consumer be bilked so that they use the BOI function (over simplification)?

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

I don't know if I've placed this thread correctly, but wow I'm far from impressed with what I've seen in the last week or so.

I'm not going to put names to this, but one that just about floored me was a person in the ball python classified section listed some absolutely stunning looking animals and listed one as a lesser mojave, and another as a giraffe ball python. I don't remember what morphs made the giraffe ball python, but it was one of the best quality animals I've seen on this site.

So within the first couple posts at least 5 people ( well known on this site ) started bashing these animals. I understand questioning genetics, but outright calling somebody a liar about the genetics of the animal when you have no investment in the animal should not be tolerated.

Anyway if I'm in the wrong for ranting on this thread I apologize, but I felt extremely bad for this guy. He put a lot of work into making these beautiful ball python morphs ( I've seen some absolute crap go for prices that dropped my jaw ) and gets bashed like that.

Dustin,

People asked some pretty legitimate questions regarding Tim's ads.

Giraffe Mojave Classified
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156981&highlight=giraffe+mojave


Forum discussion on the Giraffe Mojave.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157078&highlight=giraffe+mojave


Did you happen to see the other ads Tim posted?

 

[hhmoore]

Steve,
I may understand your points, but the OP took the correct approach in keeping it nameless, as a) the problem he wanted to address has been fairly widespread (definitely not limited to this seller's ads, or even the BP classifieds), and b) this is not the appropriate forum to address issues with specific people/businesses. If you want to address specific concerns with Tim's ads, create a BOI thread

 

[hhmoore]

Steve,
I may understand your points, but the OP took the correct approach in keeping it nameless, as a) the problem he wanted to address has been fairly widespread (definitely not limited to this seller's ads, or even the BP classifieds), and b) this is not the appropriate forum to address issues with specific people/businesses. If you want to address specific concerns with Tim's ads, create a BOI thread

 

[WebSlave]

If you all want, I can just make the classifieds sections so that there can be NO replies to the ads. That would certainly eliminate this problem.

 

[deborahbroadus]

If you all want, I can just make the classifieds sections so that there can be NO replies to the ads. That would certainly eliminate this problem.

I consider the "replies" free bumps. Saves me time. Don't know about anyone else though.

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

Steve,
I may understand your points, but the OP took the correct approach in keeping it nameless, as a) the problem he wanted to address has been fairly widespread (definitely not limited to this seller's ads, or even the BP classifieds), and b) this is not the appropriate forum to address issues with specific people/businesses. If you want to address specific concerns with Tim's ads, create a BOI thread

Harold,

Since the OP was referring to this particular ad I only answered with what I thought was appropriate to give him a better perspective why people called Tim out in his ads and since I was also involved at the time. I was not trying to stir things up and feel free to remove the links etc I posted.

I for one think it's good that some people police questionable ads, recently it was the Tracy Lancaster & Henry Milmore ads.

Take care

 

[hhmoore]

If you all want, I can just make the classifieds sections so that there can be NO replies to the ads. That would certainly eliminate this problem.

I know I'm probably in the minority, but I'd be all for it. (then again, I don't post huge numbers of ads at any given time, so I'm just as happy deleting and reposting my ads if people start posting in them.)
If its a serious consideration, though, and you really want to get people's opinions, it should probably be set up as a separate thread...or even a poll stuck in the classifieds. Most people still won't read it, but it might give a better representation

 

[tinmantribe5]

PM will cut down on all the clutter and you can keep your pm saved as a reciept of sorts if you need to prove anything later down the lines it would cut down on everybody having to look thru unkeeped promises to Buy or promises or offers so to speak that has to add to
Mega Band with thats totally Irellavent to half the Animals sold.I mean lets be honest I personally get tired every day waiding thru the same snakes Bumped over and over again
if I wanted to see the snake that bad I would have bought it 30 Bumps ago

 

[Alex G]

I'm guilty of getting into it in classifieds and it's a habit I'm kicking. However I do think sometimes when the genetics of an animal are very obviously not what the OP is suggesting they are, or the animal is very obviously starved (not just underweight, but starved) or sick in some way, it's helpful to potential buyers (though not necessarily the seller) to point it out. I know if I were unknowledgable about an animal (and let's be honest, no one on this site knows every morph of every species of every type of animal available in their sleep) and I were thinking of buying a sparkly-doo super rainbow wingasaurus rex, I'd appreciate someone pointing out that an ad actually showed a sparkly-doo super black wingasaurus rex, or one that was sick. To the untrained eye of the normal hobbyist, or someone who may be delving into a different species for the first time, I'd consider the warning a blessing.

 

[StrictlyExotics]

It happens entirely too much though. I was looking at this "boa" ad and everyone was attacking the seller telling him that he doesnt have the particular morph "boa", even talking about the dog food bag in the background. I think most people here know which ad I am talking about.
I felt so bad for this guy because honestly, there is no way hes going to sell his Boa now regardless of what dog food he uses to feed his mice. The problem is that there are way too many experts in the herp industry, including the kids who have owned EVERY single snake in the USA. We ALL need to use proper ettiquete because its an ad, not necessarily a forum or a debate.
Not everyone here is a professional photographer, let alone a decent amateur. I happen to be one so I know NOT to take pics of snakes for sale in my garage next to a bag of Ol' Roy dog food.
Even today, I was looking at a GORGEOUS "bee" and everyone is questioning the genetics that the seller claims it to be. That particular seller has no bad BOI and is a current "Good Guy" recipient. That seller has a lot of patience however and handles the questions unscruptously.
I, on the other hand, do not handle that part of the business so well. I let me wife handle people. I would have probably snapped and told everyone questioning my 1k+ snake's genetics to move on if they dont believe me. That is most likely why I love my animals, they dont talk back.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

If you all want, I can just make the classifieds sections so that there can be NO replies to the ads. That would certainly eliminate this problem.

I would prefer not. Specifically for the reasons listed in post 13 that are acceptable when addressing a particular ad within the classifieds.

Pointing out verifiable errors in the ad will be OK. Or if someone has a history on the BOI that people need to be aware of. If the identity of the person posting the ad is not really what is claimed in their profile needs to be drawn to the attention of interested viewers as well. Misidentifications of the animals or merchandise can be queried within the thread, as this is proper for a legitimate transaction to take place. But a PROFESSIONAL attitude is requested. If your opinion(s) appear to be unwelcome, don't belabor the point you are trying to make.

Opinions about pricing, personal issues, or anything that is not directly related to the animals, merchandise, or services being offered should be done via PM or just kept to yourself. Competitors posting competing ads within the threads of their competition will be dimly viewed as well. Please just start your own threads if you want to advertise on this site.

This is not a complete list, of course, as there will not be any absolute black and white to this kind of issue. The purpose of the classifieds section is to help buyers and sellers meet each other and come to a satisfactory conclusion with a LEGITIMATE transaction. Everything posted as a reply within a classified thread should be oriented in that direction. If it appears to a noninvolved third party that the pending transaction is NOT legitimate, then a suitable warning can be made within the thread, but in a PROFESSIONAL manner, please. Just make certain that all of YOUR ducks are in a row before making such an accusation, however, as an illegitimate claim could have YOU appearing to be the one attempting to disrupt a sale for malicious reasons.

 

[WebSlave]

I would prefer not. Specifically for the reasons listed in post 13 that are acceptable when addressing a particular ad within the classifieds.

I know. But sometimes it is instructive to grant peoples' requests, even knowing it is not the best method, just to show them what you mean... Sort of a "grass is greener" sort of thing.

And yes, I do realize I would be just trading one complaint in for another....

 

[hhmoore]

There are definitely times when the ability to post in an ad is a plus...(for myself, I know how to lock my ads, if people get on my nerves).
I thought we were making some headway with the inappropriate posts for a while, but it does seem to be on the rise again (not too long ago, somebody actually responded to one of my intervening posts stating that he disagreed with me...then went on to continue the debate )

 

[The BoidSmith]

Locking classifieds is needed. Although right now each individual can choose to lock it those than don't do it are getting slammed oftentimes for no reason. When that happens the damage has already been done, as you loose potential posters. But of course, those that are here only for the drama love it (not you Dennis ). A while ago I offered a trade of an albino male boa for 5 female balls. One member almost immeditaley replied and said something along the lines of "5 K for an albino boa?" etc etc. They don't even read.

 

[NeoReptiliac]

I confess my smart mouth has got me in trouble at lease once or twice on here. Heh some times its hard to speak to some people with respect. Something I'm sure some of us had to work on at some point in our lives. And even the best behaved slip some times. Especially when you've had a bad day or something. However others just want to come on here to start trouble. They call them kinds of people trolls. And I frankly hope they get weeded through. Most of them aren't even here to buy anything.

 

[The BoidSmith]

Any news oin the no-reply classifieds?

Thanks

 

[The BoidSmith]

oin = on