tremper incubation method

[Xavier]

Thanks Alberto that was very nice to read
Intresting I guess I haven't been on leo forums enough you hatch hout alot extremely nice female like unicorn and princess why do people think these are only temp induced ? Alberto could you throw a number out there for use, all the leos you produce from high end trempors what % are just as nice as the parents? I ask this cause I was suprised to read that you only sell a small % online I thought that a good number would be as nice as the parents.
Correct me if I'm wrong
Again thanks
Xavier
PS Caesar is doing great he was 92 grams on January

 

[A&M Gecko]

Hi Xavier
I cannot throw a % out there for people to use because some of it is luck. What I will do is give you an example. From Unicorn babies I got 4 females holdback quality, I kept 2 and sold the other 2. Maybe this year from the same geckos I will get 2 holdback females instead then 4, it is just not fear for me to put up a % because it cannot be always accurate. I did not say that I sell a small % on line, but that I sell the best looking one on line. Now, from a gecko like Unicorn I got 0% females that were brown and most were at list nice to very nice and the breeders I have on my site are not all I have and from those I can say that most of the babies, both males and females ended up to be very nice.
I am happy that Caesar is doing great.
Regards Alberto

 

[Xavier]

I understand Alberto,
No thats what I expected just making sure
thanks
Xavier

 

[diablohogs]

tremper method

Genetics are what breeding stock is picked for and typically a nice albino is light in color which can be achieved through line breeding for color and if the tremper method is applied than people are buying animals that do not represent thier line bred genetics. that would be like powerfeeding a tremper than selling it as a giant tremper in my opinion.

tyrosinase positive albinos dont really serve any purpose in the leopard gecko world as far as im concerned. other than being used like other albinos. what sort of double mutation could possibly benefit from the presence of tyrosinase and the absence of melanin? dark blazing blizzards? (assuming that a "midnight" blizzard is the color it is from the presence of tyrosinase)

with this in mind i wonder if a blazing blizard that is a rainwater vs. a tremper would be a whiter animal.

also i was wondering... are trempers the only tyrosinase positive albino strain in leopard geckos? bells sure have alot of that brown color to them.

p.s. if you are using this method and open about it... more power to you. Ron Tremper obviously does and i would have no problem buying an albino leo from him.

p.p.s. does temp merely effect the amount of tyrosinase expressed or does this also effect melanin production and the tangerine coloration in geckos (which i'm assuming is caused from the presence of xanthium and koolaid).

 

[E2MacPets]

To my knowledge ALL THREE STRAINS are T+
The person to ask would be Jodi Aherns or Justyn has probably hunted this info down by now.

 

[KelliH]

Steve is correct, all 3 strains are T+.

 

[robin d.]

also i was wondering... are trempers the only tyrosinase positive albino strain in leopard geckos? bells sure have alot of that brown color to them.

we had a discussion a while back on another site... i believe Jogi Aherns aka ground gecko freak... send tail snippets from each strina for a dopa test and the results came back that all three forms trempers,rainwaters and bells are all tryosinase positive

p.p.s. does temp merely effect the amount of tyrosinase expressed or does this also effect melanin production and the tangerine coloration in geckos (which i'm assuming is caused from the presence of xanthium and koolaid).

it decreases the amount of melanin...... so i am assuming it would, in hypo and or tangerines make them more hypo and brighter... because it will take out the darker colors whether it be black or brown.

oh and not all bells are brown

this guy is light

some of them come orange too

what i have noticed on them though is that they dont have brown but rather a dark red maroon..... i have some others i got firectly from mark bell to out cross which are much blander but it offers me good genetic diversity
plus i have hypo het bells and some others things

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Tremper.. uh, Viets incubation method experiment

I conducted an experiment last year on one clutch of albino eggs to prove this theory just for grins, and thought the results were interesting. Here goes:

These are the parents, and as you can see they are not dark albinos. The male (Luther) was a very pale, red-eyed juvie when I got him at approximately 8 weeks of age. The female (Libby) was quite dark as a juvie, but turned into an awesome tang albino.

Luther

Libby

The first egg was incubated at 80-82 degrees for 57 days, and here is how she looked:

I incubated the second egg at 80-81 degrees for 21 days, and then at 88-90 degrees for 27 days. The offspring turned out female, and here's what she looked like:

This was a 'quick-and-dirty' test, and the only attempt I made using this method, but I thought the results were fairly conclusive that the system does demonstrate the effects of higher incubation temperatures on color. What I could not prove was whether or not this method was used during the incubation of the parents, which might have resulted in their adult coloration and/or contributed in any way to the way the offspring looked. A LOT more studies would have to be done to really mean anything, but I just thought I'd share.

 

[SFgeckos]

just curious

did anyone last year or the year before buy "chocolate or lavender" trempers at reduced/lower prices (compared to the high yellow/orange trempers) and produced some screamer high yellow/orange offspring?

theortically, this might be an easier/cheaper way for hobbyists that can't dish out $500+ per albino breeder to get spend say $500 to get a group of "cholocate" albinos and produce nice offspring?...just a random thought...any comments?

anyone willing to try it? (unfortunately i dont have any dark/brown rainwaters to work with hehe) i'ld be interested in seeing pics of the parents and what they produce later this year.

-jon

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Jon...

I am of the opinion that there is no such thing as a "chocolate alino"... it is just catchy a term used for albinos that are dark, thus making it yet another new color morph that everyone will jump on the band wagon to buy. From a breeder's standpoint, it would certainly make it easier to sell the not-so-albino looking geckos!

The little dark Tremper female I posted the picture of in my previous post could be considered a "chocolate albino," but will most likely turn out looking just like any other one. Her mother looked very similar when I got her, but developed into a real nice tangerine albino, and produced some awesome orange and yellow offspring! Go figure...

 

[Monte]

Chocolate albinos . . .

I have a friend who was at a herp show in Omaha. He found a nice melanistic male for me - he said it was one of the darkest leos he'd ever seen.

He was going to buy it for me - and the vender said, "These are chocolate albinos".

This friend of mine is VERY experienced in herps in general and leos in particular - and it looked melanistic to him.

An albino is an albino is an albino - NOT!

Yikes!!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Well????

So, did he sell the "chocolate" albino for a whole bunch of money? LOL!!!

 

[diablohogs]

melanistic?

im speachless. apparently the desperate cry for the melanistic leopard gecko has even reahed into the world of albinos.

i'd really like to see a picture of this "chocolate albino" and maybe than we can better understand what this guy is talking about.

other than the fact that the 3 strains are not genetically compatible with one another.... an albino is an albino is an albino.... some are just browner than others and have been line bred longer or incubted at lower temps.

 

[diablohogs]

i'd really like to see a picture of this "chocolate albino" and maybe than we can better understand what this guy is talking about.

no disrespect intended monte.

 

[SFgeckos]

sorry i was playing with words

i didnt mean to refer to the terms "chocolate or lavender albinos" as they were a "morph".

i just didnt want to use the word BROWN (there i finally said it) and get slammed by people haha..it's like a "nice" way to say some albinos can be dirty brown-...chocolate..lavender...sounds much better doesnt it? =P

-jon

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

chocolate albino

http://www.knreptiles.com/available/albinoleo.html

i'd really like to see a picture of this "chocolate albino" and maybe than we can better understand what this guy is talking about.

There were several breeders that had "chocolate albinos" for sale on their websites, but they have been renamed in the past day or so! LOL! I wonder if this thread hd anything to do with it? Anyway, there is one that has already been sold on this website:
http://www.knreptiles.com/available/albinoleo.html

 

[Blazin]

Incubation.

Well first of all this is very interesting to me. I have a group of Trempers. 2 males and 4 females. This year I have hatched out probably 40 some odd trempers. Couple of years back when I first purchased a few trempers. I talked with Nicole Elliser of KN in depth for a while about the incubation method and other factors related to Trempers. What she told me, was something I was unaware of . She said that Trempers hatched out and left at cooler temps would display the darker coloration. Slightly sceptical I didn't give it a second thought. My incubation methods are pretty common. I use the standard temps for females and then with males I gamble and use 85 for a mix. ALL OF MY TREMPERS have hatched out nice and light colored pink and lavender animals. Just to see how they would turn out I placed a few at room temp. They all turned brown. None of them retained their light colors. I had some extremely bold jungles that I tinkered with in this manner and they looked in my opinion very cool! Going back a little in time one of my original animals was purchased from Masterpiece. This gecko turned out to be a nice Tangerine Albino. Really nice tangerine highlights while retaining alot of lavender. Thinking there might be a possible relation between the Tyronise and the Tangerine I then kept the male at room temp. Most of the lavender of course turned slightly brown.
This year I bred him to one of my tangerine and one of my regular tremper females and hatched out a few with some good tang to them but they all hatched out lightly colored. My point is I think some people may be experiencing temp FLUCTUATIONS even in THEIR RACKS! Certainly heat tape can wear out and cause this and whats probably even more common place is faulty thermostats or lower end ones. Well anyway my point is this I USED PROVEN INCUBATION TECHNIQUES and didn't hatch out a single Brown Tremper. I did cause some to take on the brownish look by temperature after incubation. Oh! Oh! Even one day at the lower temp I got these same results.:deer:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

you are on to something!

I was suprized to see this thread resurrected after so many months, but you have made an excellent observation. I am pretty sure that Kelli mentioned something to that affect when she an Justyn recently visited RT's facility. According to Ron, in order for the light/bright coloration to "set" and become permanent, the gecko must be kept at relatively higher temperatures for several months. I think he was unsure of exactly when it sets, but this could also explain why some brown albinos can develop into lovely oranges, yellow, and lavenders, and visa versa. The temperature incubation method apparently is not the full story when it comes to the coloration of Tremper Albinos.

 

[Blazin]

You took the words out of my Mouth Marcia!

Man I hate being unable to articulate sometimes. Thanks for helping. I think thats exactly whats going on! That means TOnS OF FUn still around the bend with all the albinos!!!!!

 

[gmherps]

Without reading this topic 1st, I put a couple of eggs from my "no incubator" setting (aka: the rep room) into the incubator. I was unaware of the possibilty of what may happen. Very good topic here!