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Info TRUTHS ABOUT THE HIDDEN GENE WOMA THAT ARE IN DIRECT CONFLICT OF KEVIN MCCURELY(NERD)

Original of Kevin:
458445_10150868760783877_246150708876_10086411_1681592611_o.jpg


Joe's:
HGwomamom1.jpg


They don't look similar to me.....

Joe's Woma just looks like my normal Woma that I have here...
 
Joe 23,

Did you happen to look at the pics I posted on FB????? I did that so people can see the difference.... I even posted the actual original mother(HG Woma)...The Dad was the line of Woma.

I don't know how to make this any clearer...... from the looks of your post you have not seen my pictures or something?????? You still seem unclear of what has been said.

Kevin

well this is a bit weird isnt it?

apperently u clearly see this is a normal woma and doesnt look at all like ur original female. well- why did u think they were the same gene back then if its so obvious that this is a woma and urs is a hg woma? i dont get that.

to me they must have been pretty close otherwise ud have never thought theyd be the same mutation. so how do u know this is a normal woma for sure?

dont get me wrong- im not saying this is one or this isnt one. to me this snake looks pretty much like ur original hg woma female (again- were u thought she was a woma at the beginning too).

id like to copy both pics in hear so we have a side by side view if thats ok for u.
 
Original of Kevin:
458445_10150868760783877_246150708876_10086411_1681592611_o.jpg


Joe's:
HGwomamom1.jpg


They don't look similar to me.....

Joe's Woma just looks like my normal Woma that I have here...


thanks for posting these. to me they look pretty similar. the original mom just has a different color there but who knows why she has that. its clear that all other hg womas have a black banding too- not such a brown one like the female in the pic.


if ud show someone these pics theyd say both are normal womas. they both dont look like a normal woma we are used to today. but to me theyre clearly to similar (espacially when we imagine the female with black banding like all other hg womas), to say once is a hg woma and the other one is a woma.


for kevin it was eventually the same- otherwise hed never named em similar in the beginning
 
Later on this day I will make a pic for you of my normal Woma for comparisson ;)
I see Much lighter eyes in Kevin's HG Woma and the flames are definitly different.
The pattern is different also I think.

I have to go now but I make a pic for you later ;)
 
Yes it's the snake from that ad and the very first post of this thread.

Thanks for the link!

Looks like A Woma Ball.......


I posted the original Mom and the Dad looks like the one he posted..... Some of my offspring are from the pairing of both of them too.....the non-pearls.

The Granite came later.....

Kev
 
Looks like A Woma Ball.......


I posted the original Mom and the Dad looks like the one he posted..... Some of my offspring are from the pairing of both of them too.....the non-pearls.

The Granite came later.....

Kev

so when i understand u correct (correct me if im wrong), did u breed a normal woma to the original hg woma female and the snake here shown by joe is a direct baby from that woma x hg woma pairing, right?

i know ive said it a thousand times but i still want to make it clear again that im not saying this snake shown by joe is a hg woma. from the look were used today of hg womas (all the flames, the dots etc), this snake looks def like a normal woma.

but if someone would have shown me the picture of the original hg woma female and said nothing more id have said its a woma. and apperently kevin felt the same back then.

maybe there re some markers which is miss (im usually not that good in this stuff- for example i couldnt tell a yb apart from a het highway), i dont know.
 
When I see something like this come from a normal woma...I'll believe they're the same.
EFM.jpg


Since they have both been around for the same length of time and more breeders have the normal womas...why aren't there any insane combos around like the hidden gene womas make? Simple...they are not the same gene.
 
sorry- the both dont look like hg womas were used today.

why cant i edit here?

You cannot edit Boi posts. You may want to take discussion on what is or isn't a hidden gene woma to ball python discussion.
 
When I see something like this come from a normal woma...I'll believe they're the same.
EFM.jpg


Since they have both been around for the same length of time and more breeders have the normal womas...why aren't there any insane combos around like the hidden gene womas make? Simple...they are not the same gene.

:iagree:

:bow01::bow01::bow01:
 
Looks like A Woma Ball.......


I posted the original Mom and the Dad looks like the one he posted..... Some of my offspring are from the pairing of both of them too.....the non-pearls.

The Granite came later.....

Kev

I am glad you posted the two pics on here. I am not even responding to Kevin as he hasn’t answered one hard question but just spins it off? When Amir released my pastel calico washout it didn’t look like anything special. It was the complete opposite or would not released it to me period. Mike Bells animal that he has, doesn’t look like anything special. Amir sold a Super Pastel Calico Washout from Mike’s normal looking pastel washout for $16,500 to Crystal Palace a couple years a go. I would say it is special..:) My founding Pastel Calico Washout still just looks like a regular decent pastel calico but it is what it produces consistently that is so incredible. It is the same thing here.

The offspring that this Original HGW produces is far from normal and we all know this other than the 10 people spinning this on here. I also want to point out that the founding Dam that I posted and your founding snake have slight flaming and both are not anything special other than the flaming. No other woma produces offspring like this even though “It looks like a woma” it obviously is not.

The offspring that an animal produces is the most important as we all know. Its visual genetic markings behind the head that some of your GHGW offspring carry that you sold. You also posted or a representative of yours posted “by mistake” on the WOBP in the Hidden Gene Woma spot an animal that carries the same Visual Genetic Markers that I am talking about.

My truths on this are not the ones that is changing here. The Pewter Soul Sucker is pink in the egg not purple and the Sterling HGW we produced is not a normal Sterling Woma period. Look at the Opalescene in it. It looks exactly like the Cinnamon Super Pastel HGW Granite the one posted on the WOBP except no granite. You added the granite to it when we sent our Sterling HGW in as a fix. You knew when it went up as Allan stated in email and made the change and added granite to it. You didn’t have a problem with our snakes then?

You also didn’t have a problem with the Sterling HGW up on the WOBP until I posted this thread as we all know. You also fought our Super Pastel HGW that we posted last year that we have in email from Allan.

I am not saying you are not powerful in this industry Kevin and can get things put up and down on your word. I am just stating these are the truths period. Your case is far from open and closed Kevin but it is wide open and has a lot of holes from stories changing, the offspring that our animals are producing and your non disclosure. I have nothing to prove to you that is for sure, as the offspring that this animal produces speaks for itself.

Everyone can all see Kevin’s inconsistencies and read between the lines. Kevin your stories change like the wind and you feel you can just change without any problems. You don’t practice full disclosure and that is why. The world sees what is going on here.

There isn’t another Pewter Woma that looks like this as an adult because it isn’t Normal. Its an Original HGW pewter and its offspring may not look like your offspring from the GHGW but it isn’t a regular Woma. I know of two way back when back in 2000. Just like the ones you used to post for sale way back in the day. And no Kevin ,I am not mumbling just answer all the questions in the post that you have been avoiding.

You went on Record stating you needed an HG Lesser in video period. (everyone who watches Ma Balls videos knows this). Ralph even collaborated at Tinley park with you at your table and stated your Lessers and his are not the same? They produce something different but Ralph wouldn’t elaborate on it? Those are someone else’s words as well and that is public knowledge. Now they are Just pretty Lessers Kevin and they are the same genetics as Ralph? You used to charge a lot more as we all know and you stated I will eat my shoe if I am wrong on one of your videos? What about all the people that paid for something special that they didn’t necessarily have to do but just bought a pretty Lesser? Your statement is “I don’t know what to tell you” to all of them? Everyone can see what is really going on here other than the 10 people posting for Kevin or people that have GHGW’s and are worried about their investments. I am all about the Truth as I expose all my morphs not hide them.

Now say I am mumbling and don’t answer anything again? Which is so ridiculous and childish?

Here is a picture of the Pewter Original Hidden Gene Woma that is far from a regular Pewter Woma as we all know. I don’t even need to post a pic of BHB’s Pewter Woma as it looks nothing like this or any other regular Pewter Woma that people have produced for that matter.
adultpewterHGW.jpg


Here is a picure of the Sterling Hidden Gene Woma which is obvious what I am saying it is as well. Just like the one you added Granite to on the WOBP when we added this and didn’t have a problem with it then.
KamikazeandKamasutraBallPythons005.jpg


Here is a picture of the Pewter Soul Sucker in the egg and it is hot pink as you described in you video and then colors up. I am sorry I made an animal that you haven’t made or shown. To say this animal isn’t a Pewter (made with a Cinnamon) lesser HGW is completely wrong and inaccurate. All other pewter lesser crosses are purple and much darker in the egg not Soul Sucker Pink even with the Cinnamon mixed in with it. The Cinnamon gene makes things darker as we all know and mutes it a little.
kamakazieintheegg2.jpg
 
sorry- the both dont look like hg womas were used today.

While true they may not look like the hg woma we are used to today.
We can also say that by today's standards, those animals are similar but clearly different.

But from the standards and the knowledge we had from the past, it is easy to see why the confusion on their "similarity". Back then we had morphs we never even knew we had. Back then we were all learning. yes even the "Evil Morph God" was learning back in the day as well. Those were actually the best days of the hobby. In my opinion.

Perhaps, the HGW picked up a piggy backer gene somewhere. It is very possible. IMHO
 
Joe at PHR

'We' all actually 'don't know'. You are making a statement that 'we' do but it seems that we are speaking for ourselves and you don't like what you are reading. Funny thing...I went to google and searched woma ball python and could pick out the differences in a woma and a hidden gene woma in a second.

Joe...even though the snakes you made with your woma are very nice...they are not what is commonly known as 'hidden gene woma' animals. There is a definite difference.

Here is another photo of one of BHBs Pewter Womas...the same looking snake that you are calling a hidden gene woma pewter.
pewter_woma_ad_m_large.jpg


Yours
adultpewterHGW.jpg


Definite similarities in pattern and color! Help me out with this one...is it reasonable to say they look the same?
 
so when i understand u correct (correct me if im wrong), did u breed a normal woma to the original hg woma female and the snake here shown by joe is a direct baby from that woma x hg woma pairing, right?

i know ive said it a thousand times but i still want to make it clear again that im not saying this snake shown by joe is a hg woma. from the look were used today of hg womas (all the flames, the dots etc), this snake looks def like a normal woma.

but if someone would have shown me the picture of the original hg woma female and said nothing more id have said its a woma. and apperently kevin felt the same back then.

maybe there re some markers which is miss (im usually not that good in this stuff- for example i couldnt tell a yb apart from a het highway), i dont know.

No...the snake from Joe is NOT from that pairing......

I am done on this.......

Good luck to the people that buy stuff from these TWO LOVELY INDIVIDUALS......

Make sure its actually a snake!


K
 
Joe at PHR

'We' all actually 'don't know'. You are making a statement that 'we' do but it seems that we are speaking for ourselves and you don't like what you are reading. Funny thing...I went to google and searched woma ball python and could pick out the differences in a woma and a hidden gene woma in a second.

Joe...even though the snakes you made with your woma are very nice...they are not what is commonly known as 'hidden gene woma' animals. There is a definite difference.

Here is another photo of one of BHBs Pewter Womas...the same looking snake that you are calling a hidden gene woma pewter.
pewter_woma_ad_m_large.jpg


Yours
adultpewterHGW.jpg


Definite similarities in pattern and color! Help me out with this one...is it reasonable to say they look the same?

Matt,
Let's start with the 30 green flames on it. Also the pink Opalescent sheen screaming through it especially on its neck and when its taken out side in natural sunlight. No regular Pewter Woma has that. This Pewter HGW is always getting lighter and changing as the Original HGW crosses do. When seen in person it looks nothing like a Regular Pewter Woma as everyone can already see.

The offspring that this snake produces is right above as this as this is my founding sire and they are far from different of any Regular Pewter Woma's offspring. Not to mention all the incredible SIBS that this produces.

The whole WOBP situation and the emails we have from Allen telling us it was Kevin who tried to stop the Super Pastel HGW from going up. Then all of a sudden it was ok to be there as it has stayed for over a year? Plus the correction of adding the Granite Gene to the Cinnamon Super Pastel HGW that was listed before on the WOBP before this thread started. We have it inemail from Allan that Kevin made the change obviously to satisfy the situation (which it didn't at all).

We all know Kevin wouldn't of given in and let my Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma up on the WOBP last year or the Sterling HGW on the WOBP this year if the snakes were not Hidden Gene Womas. He also added a Granite Gene to his and that was acceptable to him until I started this thread. I am done explaining this as the offspring speaks for itself. Ray Charles could see this. I hear a lot no the offspring looks regular but no pics being posted to prove your claims. Kevin's Face Book page pictures was a joke at best. I have been nothing but HONEST and my stories don't change period.

People can read between the lines here and I am done fighting as I don't even care. Believe what you want to believe people but people that truly know me know I am all about the TRUTH. Good Bye all
 
I don't personally know either parties involved, but I can CLEARLY see that the PHR Pewter Woma snake simply is NOT the same as the HG Pewter Woma. It's a very pretty snake but there are certainly differences.
 
You cannot edit Boi posts. You may want to take discussion on what is or isn't a hidden gene woma to ball python discussion.

yeah- i forgot that.

to me theres nothing hidden in the hg womas- its an own gene which has nothing to do with the normal womas. normal womas are dom and hg womas are obviously inc dom (the pearl) which def. proves that they arent the same.

as far as this pearl thing goes. i dont think there are any hidden genes involved that u can make pearl from a hg woma x some other non hg woma snake- doesnt matter if champage, normal woma or hg woma sibling.

solans posted that they had a pearl looking snake in their first clutch from a hg woma x bumblebee mojo too- so this leads more to the null allel stuff or pathogenesis in my eyes. again- we have it in cinnamon ballpythons and motley boas too- without any hidden genes involved.

it also has nothing to do with the het daddy gene what so ever in my eyes.
 
Matt,
Let's start with the 30 green flames on it. Also the pink Opalescent sheen screaming through it especially on its neck and when its taken out side in natural sunlight. No regular Pewter Woma has that. This Pewter HGW is always getting lighter and changing as the Original HGW crosses do. When seen in person it looks nothing like a Regular Pewter Woma as everyone can already see.

The offspring that this snake produces is right above as this as this is my founding sire and they are far from different of any Regular Pewter Woma's offspring. Not to mention all the incredible SIBS that this produces.

The whole WOBP situation and the emails we have from Allen telling us it was Kevin who tried to stop the Super Pastel HGW from going up. Then all of a sudden it was ok to be there as it has stayed for over a year? Plus the correction of adding the Granite Gene to the Cinnamon Super Pastel HGW that was listed before on the WOBP before this thread started. We have it inemail from Allan that Kevin made the change obviously to satisfy the situation (which it didn't at all).

We all know Kevin wouldn't of given in and let my Super Pastel Hidden Gene Woma up on the WOBP last year or the Sterling HGW on the WOBP this year if the snakes were not Hidden Gene Womas. He also added a Granite Gene to his and that was acceptable to him until I started this thread. I am done explaining this as the offspring speaks for itself. Ray Charles could see this. I hear a lot no the offspring looks regular but no pics being posted to prove your claims. Kevin's Face Book page pictures was a joke at best. I have been nothing but HONEST and my stories don't change period.

People can read between the lines here and I am done fighting as I don't even care. Believe what you want to believe people but people that truly know me know I am all about the TRUTH. Good Bye all

CORRECTION.. the crosses that this Pewter Hidden Gene Woma produces are far different than any other Pewter Woma produces period...:) The sentece is listed up above as everyone can see it was a typo. I am gone now and enjoy everyone...:)
 
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