Bad Guy Ty park/ ty lizards FL

[Robert Walker]

the baffling part is how you feel she should give up bob

I recognize that some parties put forth minimal effort to understand posts made by others. They are at times, too worried about trying to orchestrate their crowd pleasing response or regrettably are simply just intellectual buffoons. The down side is this leads to spewing out uneducated theories, about the motives, feelings and intentions of others.

On the flip side, those who chose to mentally engage, had zero problem understanding my previous point.

So, to repeat in simpler terms: Michelle, it is easy to see you are consumed by this issue. Please continue to engage in this cause if you think it is really worth it, however, take time to breathe, use some moderation along the way and realize, it really is okay to stop if the cost to your personally becomes too high, despite the Roman Colosseum screaming for you to "Destroy Caesar".

If continuing is worth it to her and if she doesn't mind that other aspects in her life suffer because of it, (equal and opposite reactions) then by all means, carry on.

Everyone seems to love a David vs. Goliath story. When Goliath is excessively rich and is boastful about his "good deeds" it makes it even better. Michelle is the Gladiator, in the arena for the amusement of many. My point is, just because we scream fight doesn't mean she has to wield her sword any longer. If Michelle recognizes that the cost is too great, it honestly is okay for her to put her sword down, because in the end, it is her fighting, not us. It is her mental toll to bear, not ours.

I've stated clearly that Michelle is in the right, however, when one is consumed by a goal/task/job it is often hard for that person to realize just how consumed they truly are, especially if all the voices cheering you on are demanding blood.

So... I offer an alternate perspective, a cautionary tale, that despite being right, there are regrettably some times in life when the prize does not justify the cost. If Ty was here doing the same thing as Michelle, I would offer the exact same advice to him as well, but he is not.

On a different note:
While I appreciate both the blatantly public and behind the scenes attempts to call my profile signature hypocritical, I attest that there is nothing hypocritical about fighting the harder right, even if the harder right is putting yourself first and knowing when enough is enough. As stated before, Michelle is not deciding to between right vs. wrong, only between two rights. If someone wants to knock themselves out using my signature to address Ty, go for it. I choose not to because he is not here, and barking at the wall all day only illustrates you didn't need that pet dog after all.

Does a husband seek justice for his murdered daughter only to win a conviction but lose his wife, job and entire savings in the process? While fighting his daughter's murderer is a "great" worthwhile cause, given the choice, his family, job and retirement may be a "better" cause. Knowing when to put the brakes on is key. Maybe now is the time, maybe later is better?

 

[Fangthane]

if Ty park was named Ty Smith and a difference race, would there still be almost 78 pages about a raffle that gone bad?

Even if we were dealing with Whitey McWonderbread, this thread would be no different. However, since you opened that door, I guess we should now wonder just how much ethnicity may factor into your own stance here. A Cong supporting a Park must be racially motivated!

 

[Sugarhedgie]

I recognize that some parties put forth minimal effort to understand posts made by others. They are at times, too worried about trying to orchestrate their crowd pleasing response or regrettably are simply just intellectual buffoons. The down side is this leads to spewing out uneducated theories, about the motives, feelings and intentions of others.

On the flip side, those who chose to mentally engage, had zero problem understanding my previous point.

So, to repeat in simpler terms: Michelle, it is easy to see you are consumed by this issue. Please continue to engage in this cause if you think it is really worth it, however, take time to breathe, use some moderation along the way and realize, it really is okay to stop if the cost to your personally becomes too high, despite the Roman Colosseum screaming for you to "Destroy Caesar".



Everyone seems to love a David vs. Goliath story. When Goliath is excessively rich and is boastful about his "good deeds" it makes it even better. Michelle is the Gladiator, in the arena for the amusement of many. My point is, just because we scream fight doesn't mean she has to wield her sword any longer. If Michelle recognizes that the cost is too great, it honestly is okay for her to put her sword down, because in the end, it is her fighting, not us. It is her mental toll to bear, not ours.

I've stated clearly that Michelle is in the right, however, when one is consumed by a goal/task/job it is often hard for that person to realize just how consumed they truly are, especially if all the voices cheering you on are demanding blood.

So... I offer an alternate perspective, a cautionary tale, that despite being right, there are regrettably some times in life when the prize does not justify the cost. If Ty was here doing the same thing as Michelle, I would offer the exact same advice to him as well, but he is not.

On a different note:
While I appreciate both the blatantly public and behind the scenes attempts to call my profile signature hypocritical, I attest that there is nothing hypocritical about fighting the harder right, even if the harder right is putting yourself first and knowing when enough is enough. As stated before, Michelle is not deciding to between right vs. wrong, only between two rights. If someone wants to knock themselves out using my signature to address Ty, go for it. I choose not to because he is not here, and barking at the wall all day only illustrates you didn't need that pet dog after all.

Does a husband seek justice for his murdered daughter only to win a conviction but lose his wife, job and entire savings in the process? While fighting his daughter's murderer is a "great" worthwhile cause, given the choice, his family, job and retirement may be a "better" cause. Knowing when to put the brakes on is key. Maybe now is the time, maybe later is better?

I won a valuable prize and I don't think trying to get that prize that I wom is unreasonable at all. . What is unreasonable is ty not just honoring HIS contract that were HIS own WORDS (promises )

I have plenty of stuff going on in my life and my own breeding to be "consumed with this. Yes I fight for what i believe is right and what I believe is right is that ty park owes me the prize I won and he should have had better communication skills. Instead he chose not to communicate that he was going to give me purple albino like he gave the others till he saw how greedy he thought I was.
That's shows his character.

If he had honored it. It would have been a dream come true. I am a reptile keeper and marsupial Breeder and sure it would have been easier if I didn't have to chase him for what he owed me. But it's definately not "consuming" my every min of every day.

I am not in any way "trying to destroy ceaser" (Ty) I'm just bringing awareness to a very unfortunate situation that has happened here. One that could have easily been resolved before this thread even started. People here who are "chearing me on are demanding blood" I think the majority just sees it like it is and agrees with me that ty cheated me out of a prize and they hope i get it

 

[Robert Walker]

I won

And so it is, your 223rd post at 1:21am in the morning CST.

 

[Sugarhedgie]

And so it is, your 223rd post at 1:21am in the morning CST.

I am in my gliders scedual. nocturnal but Thanks for keeping a count of my posts!!

Ty had posted as himself and his made up lawyer? Maybe even other screen names. Who knows.

 

[FresnoTortoise]

Chinese hate Koreans. I only started to like Ty after reading my hero Bert Langerwerf's book. I am glad you guys all deny that this is not about race. He gets a lot of crap because he is an Asian man and doing very well in this field.

Then this is about really bad communication between both parties. Do people not talk on the phone anymore? Confusion over what the Albino Blue and Albino Purple is/was etc. Send me your address so I can send you an albino tegu...No!!...Send me your address so I can send you an albino tegu....No!!!!

Some where in the first few pages, one of the other winner's posted this below:

"I was the other winner of this raffle. While I do not wish to get overly involved in this, I had absolutely no issue. I received a perfectly healthy albino blue tegu and she's been growing like a weed. I never asked any questions or raised any concerns to Ty, I just waited until Ty contacted me and when he did the tegu was promptly shipped out. This is a recent picture:"

I ask, why can't OP be more like Grant?

 

[Fangthane]

Thanks for keeping a count of my posts!!

Such concern for your well-being, that all expressed negativity has been directed at you. I bet that that level of caring feels really sincere to you, doesn't it?

You just do what you feel is right. In the same way that you shouldn't feel the need to act out of some bloodlust that the masses have supposedly coaxed forth from you, you also shouldn't feel compelled to change course because a few people want to criticize your every move. Their utter lack of criticism for Ty Park may be just a bit telling.

You're the only one who knows how far your circumstances will allow you to pursue this. If you're willing and able to follow this through to the end - great. Either way, I already think you're probably deserving of a much more sincere "hooray" than the one recently offered.

 

[markpulawski]

Michelle I have to agree with Robert on this one, allowing something to totally consume you, which this seems to be doing has got to be taking a toll on you and your family. Backing away from this thread for a bit doesn't mean your giving up, it can mean your just taking your life back. Ty has not posted here since the beginning, remember when he actually admitted intentionally keeping you in the dark about lineage and any other questions you had in an attempt to see if you would kiss the ground he walks on and adore everything he does as perfection as he can not do wrong. You can rest assured that this community is behind you with the exception of a few Ty Park loyalists who would very likely say Ty is not guilty of murder because the victim jumped in front of his bullets.
It is not leave the thread completely but unless an advance has been made it is best to let some developments occur and update when they do. Anyone with an open mind and common sense will side with you, it is a super simple equation that if Ty stands up and does what he said he would do you would get your Tegu, exactly as Ty stated when he started the raffle. This guy has already taken your trust, don't let him take your ability to smile though out the day as well.

 

[Robert Walker]

This is it in it's simplest form:

Backing away from this thread for a bit doesn't mean your giving up, it can mean your just taking your life back...
It is not leave the thread completely but unless an advance has been made it is best to let some developments occur and update when they do.

And yet the Colosseum insists:

"The world is a cruel dark lonely place, nothing more, can't you see? Sincerity is a lie, a disingenuous mechanism of self interest only. Bad mouth the opponent, feed him to the wolves, and if you do not, it must therefore mean your are really his friend. Black and white are the only paths that lay ahead. Empathy, an extended hand... all lies employed for personal gain, position or advantage...nothing more. Criticize not? Criticize not how we like? Yell not as loud as we? Therefore you are not one of us, but rather our enemy also."

 

[thomas davis]

really bob? i see no enemies here i see a bad guy that lied and cheated the OP out of her winnings. i think anyone with half a brain cell gets that.

 

[AllisonLeigh]

While I agree that the negativity we allow in our lives has to be weighed against the effect it has on us, who are you or I to decide how this is affecting Michelle? If she's losing sleep and unable to eat from the stress of it... absolutely, let it go and be more concerned with your well being than the money or even the injustice of it (which is probably more frustrating than the money at this point). HOWEVER, we all are making posts yet WE aren't financially impacted by this at all. Does that mean that I'm all worked up and should let it go? No, I'm actually intrigued by how a successful man such as Ty would make such a egotistical and down right juvenile decision such as to deny her the prize because his feelings were hurt by the term "shady" or "scammy". Here's a simple solution, don't want to be called shady or scammy... don't act shady or scammy.

I agree with Robert on one thing, don't let this consume you. I hope I interpreted Robert's posts correctly (as I didn't the first time I read them and they sounded fairly insulting to Michelle) and that they just come from a place of experience. I've read a lot of old posts from before my time on the forums where months or years of someone's life could be filled with the stressful back and forth, and I'm hoping this is just his way of suggesting she keep that in mind and not become too consumed. As far as she is handling it thus far though, I think it's been fine (IMHO) and I'm glad she has the tenacity to stick it to him. He did something wrong, expected her to bend to what he said, and that's not how business works. Especially a raffle. Getting your money back for a purchase is being made whole. Getting your ticket price back for a raffle you WON (IMHO again) is not being made whole. Being made whole in that case is being given what you were promised you would get if you won.

Asking her to take an unknown lineage/health animal in place of his is like asking a Lotto winner to accept a personal cheque from an unknown 3rd party. Sure it might work out... and what if it doesn't? Then what?

 

[Sugarhedgie]

While I agree that the negativity we allow in our lives has to be weighed against the effect it has on us, who are you or I to decide how this is affecting Michelle? If she's losing sleep and unable to eat from the stress of it... absolutely, let it go and be more concerned with your well being than the money or even the injustice of it (which is probably more frustrating than the money at this point). HOWEVER, we all are making posts yet WE aren't financially impacted by this at all. Does that mean that I'm all worked up and should let it go? No, I'm actually intrigued by how a successful man such as Ty would make such a egotistical and down right juvenile decision such as to deny her the prize because his feelings were hurt by the term "shady" or "scammy". Here's a simple solution, don't want to be called shady or scammy... don't act shady or scammy.

I agree with Robert on one thing, don't let this consume you. I hope I interpreted Robert's posts correctly (as I didn't the first time I read them and they sounded fairly insulting to Michelle) and that they just come from a place of experience. I've read a lot of old posts from before my time on the forums where months or years of someone's life could be filled with the stressful back and forth, and I'm hoping this is just his way of suggesting she keep that in mind and not become too consumed. As far as she is handling it thus far though, I think it's been fine (IMHO) and I'm glad she has the tenacity to stick it to him. He did something wrong, expected her to bend to what he said, and that's not how business works. Especially a raffle. Getting your money back for a purchase is being made whole. Getting your ticket price back for a raffle you WON (IMHO again) is not being made whole. Being made whole in that case is being given what you were promised you would get if you won.

Asking her to take an unknown lineage/health animal in place of his is like asking a Lotto winner to accept a personal cheque from an unknown 3rd party. Sure it might work out... and what if it doesn't? Then what?

*robert # 225 * SMH

 

[Casey Hulse]

I won a valuable prize and I don't think trying to get that prize that I wom is unreasonable at all. . What is unreasonable is ty not just honoring HIS contract that were HIS own WORDS (promises )

I have plenty of stuff going on in my life and my own breeding to be "consumed with this. Yes I fight for what i believe is right and what I believe is right is that ty park owes me the prize I won and he should have had better communication skills. Instead he chose not to communicate that he was going to give me purple albino like he gave the others till he saw how greedy he thought I was.
That's shows his character.

If he had honored it. It would have been a dream come true. I am a reptile keeper and marsupial Breeder and sure it would have been easier if I didn't have to chase him for what he owed me. But it's definately not "consuming" my every min of every day.

I am not in any way "trying to destroy ceaser" (Ty) I'm just bringing awareness to a very unfortunate situation that has happened here. One that could have easily been resolved before this thread even started. People here who are "chearing me on are demanding blood" I think the majority just sees it like it is and agrees with me that ty cheated me out of a prize and they hope i get it

This is exactly what I've been saying, I am glad we agree, you should have sent him your address. If you had sold the tegu, I can almost guarantee that you would not be considered a "flipper"

Anyone with an open mind and common sense will side with you, it is a super simple equation that if Ty stands up and does what he said he would do you would get your Tegu,

Remember, TY did exactly what he said he was going to do (after he was obviously offended, and clearly wanted nothing to do with Michelle) He said if she did not send him her shipping info. he would re-raffle HER prize (tegu), and she would get nothing.

I feel like I am open minded, and have tried to place myself in this situation to see where it started to go down hill.

I would like to know why the charity is also a villain in this situation? while I know very little about this charity, I do know some of the members who I hold in high esteem. The fact that Michelle feels the charity should give her $3000 is unusual. When I purchase raffle tickets, I usually do not care about the prize, rather what my money will be used for, so I would like to think that Michelle bought the tickets with that in mind?
It is possible this could still reach an outcome that would be welcomed by Michelle, but I doubt that continuing to post on this thread will help.

 

[Lucille]

I would like to know why the charity is also a villain in this situation?

Casey, are you OK? There have been numerous discussions about this very point and you have participated in many of them. Don't you remember? Or is there a motive that I'm not seeing in reprising the entire discussions?


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605930&highlight=ircf&page=2

 

[Lucille]

It is possible this could still reach an outcome that would be welcomed by Michelle, but I doubt that continuing to post on this thread will help.

I vigorously disagree, and feel that you are trying to put the hush on. I believe that both the IRCF and Ty have behaved unethically and as well, I believe there are legal issues here which I will probably reprise shortly.

The BOI is a place to bring situations like this, and the ongoing thread serves the purpose of warning readers about unethical behaviors.

If you are trying to silence Michelle's valid issues, that to me is a disservice to Michelle, to the BOI, and to the concept of justice.

 

[AllisonLeigh]

This is exactly what I've been saying, I am glad we agree, you should have sent him your address. If you had sold the tegu, I can almost guarantee that you would not be considered a "flipper"

I personally think you're confusing the word "should" with "could". Michelle did what she committed to do, Ty did not. I do not see why it is appropriate to say that Michelle should have accepted Ty's revised terms just because he said so. If your contention is with her involving the charity, I can at least understand your point a bit more. Again though, you accept the donations and performed the actual draw, then you get yourself involved. I'm not sure what I would expect them to do, but I would also be disappointed with their "not our problem" response. I just have no idea why you would think that Ty has the right to dictate new terms just because he said so. The charity aside, Ty is in the wrong here as HE broke the terms he outlined.

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

This is exactly what I've been saying, I am glad we agree, you should have sent him your address.

That is not what she said, so why are you being intellectually dishonest with this? What a disappointment.

 

[Sugarhedgie]

I shouldn't even waist my breath Casey

But seriously
You say" One that could have easily been resolved before this thread even started" and twist it to it's my fault because I didn't give him my shipping info for something he didn't even have (he said he didn't produce any t- and that he couldn't even get one from the undesclosed breeder friend demands my shipping info to send me the tegu!! WHAT TEGU!! he said it will grow up looking like the one in the raffle photo (the raffle photo was a t- not a t+)means that ty shouldn't have been so egotistical and communicated that he was willing to send me the t+ albino like he sent the others. INSTEAD he chose and admitted to not communicate that to see how greedy I was.!!!

My meaning which I know you know what I meant
"One that could have easily been resolved before this thread even started"
As that he could have just sent me the tegu or money like he promised and it would have been over.


Casey you also say "This is exactly what I've been saying, I am glad we agree, you should have sent him your address. If you had sold the tegu, I can almost guarantee that you would not be considered a "flipper"

What tegu? As he wouldn't disclose that important information. And I don't care how people would have perceived it. I myself just don't flip animals.


And lastly
Casey you say "I would like to know why the charity is also a villain in this situation? while I know very little about this charity, I do know some of the members who I hold in high esteem. The fact that Michelle feels the charity should give her $3000 is unusual. When I purchase raffle tickets, I usually do not care about the prize, rather what my money will be used for, so I would like to think that Michelle bought the tickets with that in mind?
It is possible this could still reach an outcome that would be welcomed by Michelle, but I doubt that continuing to post on this thread will help."

Unusual? I'm AZ whena non profit runs a raffle they must ensure that the prize is delivered and their members are to run it not a 3rd party.
There is some confusion as to their involvement but they drew the tickets and were well aware of it.

It's safe to say that if ty didn't have a raffle and just said hey I'd like to raise $9,000 can everyone please just donate $100 or more each to benifit the IRCF
I do not think that everyone would have just done that in less than an hour.

I do think that many people including myself did feel great about being able to help a non profit while taking a chance at winning a great prize.

Because He was raffling a prize (a tegu produced by him or $3000) IS WHY he sold 60 ($100) raffle tickets and got a 3,000 donation within about an hour

Not delivering the prize though..,,,,
So please don't insinuate that I am or was greedy too

 

[nickolasanastasiou]

I understand what Robert Walker was saying with respect to being consumed. Also, I liken it to cautioning against antics sometimes seen in other threads. Flooding a thread can make readers tire of a poster's presence because it devolves into repetitive material that is light on fresh substance.

I believe Michelle is owed her prize. It is possible that the repetitive posts weaken the impression (not the position, but the impression) and waste time/effort. She could have made 10% of the volume of posts and have the same forward-moving impact as now with 225+ posts on the topic. I am not saying she should post less, but it is an alternative strategy (to keep it to the meat of the matter). Lots of quotes with an exactly-style emoticon only add volume. Fine to include them (to a point; they can start becoming akin to spam if misused and I am not saying that has happened yet). Fine to not include them. It might be a good path to respond when it is enriching. New information. Clarification. That sort of thing. If it is quoting a big block or repeating what was already posted, it does not enrich. One is free to not take this into consideration, but it does make for easier processing and a cleaner presentation of the issues involved. One is speaking to an audience in these situations.

 

[nicksgrl26]

I would like to know why the charity is also a villain in this situation? while I know very little about this charity, I do know some of the members who I hold in high esteem. The fact that Michelle feels the charity should give her $3000 is unusual. When I purchase raffle tickets, I usually do not care about the prize, rather what my money will be used for, so I would like to think that Michelle bought the tickets with that in mind?
It is possible this could still reach an outcome that would be welcomed by Michelle, but I doubt that continuing to post on this thread will help.

It doesn't really matter why she entered the raffle, obviously in this case she really wants a tegu.
As for getting money from the charity, its probably because although Ty promoted it, he didn't touch the money and it all went to them. He simply donated his animals to their raffle. Assuming all of that is legit (I don't know raffle laws for promoters) it would be their burden to give out the prize (even if it was shipped from ty's place). Now the 3,000 I don't even think is a factor like I said in my prior posts, but 2500 for the price of the animal is a distinct possibility depending on the court ruling.