Bad Guy Ty park/ ty lizards FL

[WebSlave]

Michelle says she used to be one of Ty's "groupies", in my mind that means she probably had respect for him in some fashion. I wish she had given him the benefit of the doubt and sent him her shipping address, and gotten something at least. This thread would not be here if she had because I think Ty would have sent her a $5000 purple Albino. I am just guessing, but the tegu that was "re-raffled" was a purple, and I would think Michelle could have sold it for a few thousand if she did not want it. Michelle knew there were no blues hatched, she was paying very close attention.

But the POINT of all this is that Michelle didn't want JUST SOMETHING, now isn't it? That is certainly why she bought the raffle ticket(s) is it not? Because Ty was offering a SPECIFIC type of animal from a SPECIFIC source that she was wiling to risk a long shot at winning. That is how raffles work.

And let's be honest here, you can't possibly know what Ty was actually going to do and what was running through his mind at the time. And neither did Michelle, which is why she was asking questions in order to try to find out what the heck was going on. She wanted to KNOW whether she was getting the prize she won, or something else entirely. Ty has already admitted that he was purposely obtuse with his intentions, did he not? Something along the lines of trying to see if she was "greedy", I believe. And yet you seem confused about why Michelle would be confused and struggling to understand what Ty's intentions actually were.

 

[DavidBeard]

Casey......you just don't get it do you? WebSlave of all people (someone who rarely gets involved unless it is a site governing issue) is commenting in opposition to your ridiculous conjecture, that should be enough to make you take pause.

 

[markpulawski]

Michelle, playing naive can be very annoying to some people. The parts I highlighted from you are what I'm talking about. You know he did not post pictures because he did not produce any, but you act like "i'd like to see some pictures of the cute babies that you produced", knowing full well there ARE NOT any, this is a coy game that got tiresome. Ty knew you wanted him to "repeat" that he did not have pics, because he did not produce any, so you could start all over with the, "I think I'd rather just have the money, that way I can buy a cute baby from you next year". Naive, coy, tiresome, whatever you want to call it.

When Ty said, , I guess he meant it.

I am not saying I think you were in the wrong, I'm saying you messed up, that's all. I do not know if you missed the signals, or if you just did not think Ty could be serious. You even had a list of questions you submitted to Ty after you filed suit, I looked for them but could not find them.

Casey I saw Ty telling Michelle she will get one like in the photo and she asked where those were posted...where are her quotes of wanting cute baby pictures, I could not find them?

 

[kerrek]

Michelle says she used to be one of Ty's "groupies", in my mind that means she probably had respect for him in some fashion. I wish she had given him the benefit of the doubt and sent him her shipping address, and gotten something at least. This thread would not be here if she had because I think Ty would have sent her a $5000 purple Albino. I am just guessing, but the tegu that was "re-raffled" was a purple, and I would think Michelle could have sold it for a few thousand if she did not want it. Michelle knew there were no blues hatched, she was paying very close attention.

Why should she give the benefit of the doubt to someone that had flat out lied to her and everyone else who won the raffle? The raffle was for a blue tegu/albino tegu produced by Ty or $3000. Once he decided to change the rules of the raffle he loses any benefit if the doubt he was entitled to. After Ty waffled about where the prize was coming from she has every right to question him before she accepts it. It's not her fault that he's either overly sensitive or a raging egomaniac. Most reasonable people would have no problems discussing a replacement animal with someone. This is no different than if she had placed an order for a specific tegu and it died before shipping. Ty should have been very up front " I didn't produce any blues I am going to get them from source X and here are some pictures. Will everybody be happy with that? " Instead Ty played stupid games and wouldn't tell her anything. When he finally decided to give away the purples he produced he should have told everybody " since I got lucky all of the winners got lucky you are going to get a purple tegu because that's the only albinos I produced." I still don't understand why you think him playing games like this is ok. The last line of your post I quoted explains exactly why she kept asking questions she "knew" there were no blues so what the hell was he going to send and where was it coming from?

 

[Black Adder]

I have watched this thread unfold from the beginning, even added my three cents worth in places but I am a little surprised at Casey, s comments all round.
Chris Kennerd has said many times already that there is no grey area, and it is pretty cut and dry, Park made the raffle rules and Park broke the raffle rules.
All the rest is just conjecture and fluff, does it truly matter if Michelle could have been a little more circumspect in her actions? Yes she has made a lot of posts, possibly some superfluous but she has also made sure this thread stays near the top so EVERYBODY can see Park for what he is!
She has pursued what she sees as her best course of action to try and obtain what she believes she is owed and to expose Park for what he truly is.

Casey, your reputation has gone down the toilet almost as fast as Parks has tbh, now I think you said earlier, a reason a lot of the "oldies" dont post here any longer is because of some of the bear baiting( not your words) that occurs here so maybe your "rep" on the BOI means nothing to you anyway.

But your posts and possible reasoning for them even existing sure are confusing the heck out of a lot of us here....

 

[zovick]

I have watched this thread unfold from the beginning, even added my three cents worth in places but I am a little surprised at Casey, s comments all round.
Chris Kennerd has said many times already that there is no grey area, and it is pretty cut and dry, Park made the raffle rules and Park broke the raffle rules.
All the rest is just conjecture and fluff, does it truly matter if Michelle could have been a little more circumspect in her actions? Yes she has made a lot of posts, possibly some superfluous but she has also made sure this thread stays near the top so EVERYBODY can see Park for what he is!
She has pursued what she sees as her best course of action to try and obtain what she believes she is owed and to expose Park for what he truly is.

Casey, your reputation has gone down the toilet almost as fast as Parks has tbh, now I think you said earlier, a reason a lot of the "oldies" dont post here any longer is because of some of the bear baiting( not your words) that occurs here so maybe your "rep" on the BOI means nothing to you anyway.

But your posts and possible reasoning for them even existing sure are confusing the heck out of a lot of us here....

I agree with Black Adder. If there is no ulterior motive behind these obtuse posts by Casey (as a couple of people have postulated, though he has denied), he seems to lack understanding of what transpired and/or have a real comprehension problem relating to the raffle terms vs. the reality of what happened.

 

[Andy_G]

Michelle says she used to be one of Ty's "groupies", in my mind that means she probably had respect for him in some fashion. I wish she had given him the benefit of the doubt and sent him her shipping address, and gotten something at least. This thread would not be here if she had because I think Ty would have sent her a $5000 purple Albino. I am just guessing, but the tegu that was "re-raffled" was a purple, and I would think Michelle could have sold it for a few thousand if she did not want it. Michelle knew there were no blues hatched, she was paying very close attention.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

 

[Robert Walker]

If I were Michelle, I would be grateful for all the posts that have come in opposition to my claim. I would try to find the value in posts made by members like Casey, FresnoTortoise and others who have spoken up.

It can be easy to get tunnel vision in cases like these. "I won, I'm right. You are wrong, period end of story" (example only). It is easy to see one side as black and the other side as white. In a court procedure where both sides only argued a black vs. white case, it might make it easier for the judge to determine the victor.

It appears clear to me that Ty has no intentions of resolving this except through court. If I were Ty or his lawyer, I would argue an approach that fell in the "grey zone" and avoid a black & white debate. There are endless approaches in which to counter Michelle's lawsuit. If she has only prepared for 2 possible counter approaches, what happens if Ty counters her in a 3rd way, one she is not prepared for OR worse, one she has not even thought of before?

Casey and FresnoTortoise have offered a variety of "grey zone" approaches, one of which might actually stick and win Ty the case. I would consider this BOI thread free practice for the real thing and a way to help me see outside of the box.

A judge doesn't have to side on what we (Fauna audience) think is that right answer. We have all been watching this play out for almost 2 months. Instead he/she has to figure this out in a matter of minutes... and along those lines, a "grey zone" defense very well could send Ty out of court as the winner. There tends to be a sentiment here not to hush Michelle. I personally will extend that same courtesy to Casey and Fresno as well.

The BOI works best when both sides are heard. Point vs. Counterpoint. Black angle vs. White angle. Grey approach vs. opposing grey approach. So, thank you to Casey and Fresno for helping us dig a little deeper, think a little harder and stretch further out of our comfort zones.

 

[Sugarhedgie]

Believe me I am definately taking everything in.
This is going to end up in Fl courts as ty wanted in the first place so his "lawyers can put her (me) in my place"

I apologize to everyone who thinks I have been repetitive with my posts.

And apologize for this ahead of time but this meme was posted on his page.
Like most of us see ty is egotistical and liked to brag about his wealth.

If he is so wealthy and sean's to need recognition I can't understand why he just doesn't make this right. Unless he is just worried about his pride

 

[Casey Hulse]

casey where do you come up with this crap?? I NEVER said I was one of his groupies. IF I did please show us where...,
The best I said about him was That i had heard a lot of good things about him. He proved that wrong though real quick

I apologize. I thought I had seen you say something "I used to be_______ until he did this" I am sorry if I was wrong, but I can not find the post.

Casey I saw Ty telling Michelle she will get one like in the photo and she asked where those were posted...where are her quotes of wanting cute baby pictures, I could not find them?

I was trying to emphasize her acting naive. I was talking about this exchange.
blue= Michelle, red = me.

8/16, 6:01pm

Ty Park
You are welcome to post anything u want on FB and let other people decide.




Purple tegu is albino tegu










​​
​​
8/16, 6:02pm

Michelle Cutler
ok so give me a purple




yu said you only produced the purple albinos not the blue albinos









This is a statement by Michelle, she knows he did NOT produce any blues.
​​
​​
8/16, 6:04pm

Ty Park
You will get a albino like to one on the photo










​​
​​
8/16, 6:05pm

Michelle Cutler
where are the clutch pic of the albino blues that you hatched on your wall?










​​ This is her being coy, She wants Ty to state again, that he did not produce any blues
​​
8/16, 6:05pm

Ty Park
Yes










​​
​​
8/16, 6:05pm

Michelle Cutler
what date? I'm scrolling and didn't find any










​​
​​
8/16, 6:06pm

Ty Park
Today




Look I'm done with you. Send me ur address and I'll send you a baby albino tegu that will turn out like the one in the photo next week. I'll ship Monday for Tuesday arrival.










​​
​​
8/16, 6:20pm

Michelle Cutler
Can you tell me when you posted the albino blues that you produced. I can't find them on your page










​​ Again, she know no blues were produced.
​​
8/16, 6:23pm

Ty Park
It's called purple tegu. Purple tegu is albino tegu.










​​
​​
8/16, 6:25pm

Michelle Cutlerso i 
won an albino/blue produced by you. can you tell me when you posted the clutch that hatched the albino/blue's?




can you take a pic for me











Again, acting naive, coy, She know there is no pic, and he can't take a pic.

And let's be honest here, you can't possibly know what Ty was actually going to do and what was running through his mind at the time. And neither did Michelle, which is why she was asking questions in order to try to find out what the heck was going on. She wanted to KNOW whether she was getting the prize she won, or something else entirely. Ty has already admitted that he was purposely obtuse with his intentions, did he not? Something along the lines of trying to see if she was "greedy", I believe. And yet you seem confused about why Michelle would be confused and struggling to understand what Ty's intentions actually were.

You are 100% correct, but I think Michelle was saying
"no blues = $3000 cash" you did not produce blues, you owe me $3000" Now this is after Ty said "you are not getting any money" I feel that Michelle was determined to get that $3000. I am not sure how she hoped it would be accomplished, but maybe she thought Ty needed to be reminded. (repeatedly)

 

[Sugarhedgie]

I apologize. I thought I had seen you say something "I used to be_______ until he did this" I am sorry if I was wrong, but I can not find the post.


I was trying to emphasize her acting naive. I was talking about this exchange.
blue= Michelle, red = me.

Again, acting naive, coy, She know there is no pic, and he can't take a pic.



You are 100% correct, but I think Michelle was saying
"no blues = $3000 cash" you did not produce blues, you owe me $3000" Now this is after Ty said "you are not getting any money" I feel that Michelle was determined to get that $3000. I am not sure how she hoped it would be accomplished, but maybe she thought Ty needed to be reminded. (repeatedly)

After ty said he did not produce any albino blues only purples and that those are worth 5,000 I only owe you 2,500 and after he told me he was going to get them from a friend ,and I said I don't n ow how I felt about that because I thought it was supposed to be produced by you. I believe that was when I said instead of you buying one from someone else can I have the 3,000 and maybe I'll buy one from you next year. He said ok I'll send you one I produced I was going to save some.
I definately lost trust in him and that is when I started questing him and asking for the picks of the ones that he hatched.

He didn't produce any

He was going to get them from someone else (but wouldn't give me the friend/breeders info (turned out he couldn't get them anyway)

I ask for the money (instead of a friends tegu)

Then he tells me ok I did produce some

I ask for pics which I think was totally reasonable

Purple is albino

But said I couldn't have a purple

Then when questioned he kept saying you will get one that will grow up like the one in the (raffle)photo?

Where was it coming from???????????

This is why I kept asking for pics.

Nothing "coy" about that
You'll get one like the photo , THE PHOTO WAS A T- ALBINO BLUE !!!! One he didn't produce and couldn't get.


IF AND ONLY IF he even ever intended to send me a t+ albino He should have just said that.
What about ok even though the purples are worth more I have decided to send the winners those.

That would have not left me guessing and I would have sent my info and had a tegu now.
his games ,shadyness of whatever you want to call is what caused all of this confusion!!

The first post said albino blue
The raffle (2nd) post said an albino tegu!!!
So the purple albino would have been the prize anyway as he did not clarify
he admitted this "mistake" in post #77

 

[Lucille]

Michelle,
Have you filed BBB complaints against Ty and the IRCF? Maybe more eyes and a wider perspective might help, just like Robert suggested. I'm going to spend my day finding more eyes, pm me when you get a chance.

 

[bcr229]

Michelle,
Have you filed BBB complaints against Ty and the IRCF?

I had one filed against my company once. It was a non-issue to deal with it. Most businesses don't care about BBB ratings.

OTOH if Michelle files an IRS 13909 and sends the letter the IRCF sent with her along with it, the IRCF will have some explaining to do to the tax man.
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations

 

[Lucille]

I had one filed against my company once. It was a non-issue to deal with it. Most businesses don't care about BBB ratings.

OTOH if Michelle files an IRS 13909 and sends the letter the IRCF sent with her along with it, the IRCF will have some explaining to do to the tax man.
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations

The IRS idea is an excellent idea; the advantage of a BBB complaint is that if folks check, then do a search, they may find their way here.
Today, for me, is all about getting more eyes on this thread.
Newspapers, law professors, consumer advocates. After all, Robert is calling for more perspectives.

 

[WebSlave]

8/16, 6:01pm

Ty Park
You are welcome to post anything u want on FB and let other people decide.




Purple tegu is albino tegu










​​
​​
8/16, 6:02pm

Michelle Cutler
ok so give me a purple




yu said you only produced the purple albinos not the blue albinos









This is a statement by Michelle, she knows he did NOT produce any blues.
​​
​​
8/16, 6:04pm

Ty Park
You will get a albino like to one on the photo










​​
​​
8/16, 6:05pm

Michelle Cutler
where are the clutch pic of the albino blues that you hatched on your wall?










​​ This is her being coy, She wants Ty to state again, that he did not produce any blues
​​
8/16, 6:05pm

Ty Park
Yes










​​
​​
8/16, 6:05pm

Michelle Cutler
what date? I'm scrolling and didn't find any










​​
​​
8/16, 6:06pm

Ty Park
Today




Look I'm done with you. Send me ur address and I'll send you a baby albino tegu that will turn out like the one in the photo next week. I'll ship Monday for Tuesday arrival.










​​
​​
8/16, 6:20pm

Michelle Cutler
Can you tell me when you posted the albino blues that you produced. I can't find them on your page










​​ Again, she know no blues were produced.
​​
8/16, 6:23pm

Ty Park
It's called purple tegu. Purple tegu is albino tegu.










​​
​​
8/16, 6:25pm

Michelle Cutlerso i 
won an albino/blue produced by you. can you tell me when you posted the clutch that hatched the albino/blue's?




can you take a pic for me











After ty said he did not produce any albino blues only purples and that those are worth 5,000 I only owe you 2,500 and after he told me he was going to get them from a friend ,and I said I don't n ow how I felt about that because I thought it was supposed to be produced by you. I believe that was when I said instead of you buying one from someone else can I have the 3,000 and maybe I'll buy one from you next year. He said ok I'll send you one I produced I was going to save some.
I definately lost trust in him and that is when I started questing him and asking for the picks of the ones that he hatched.

He didn't produce any

He was going to get them from someone else (but wouldn't give me the friend/breeders info (turned out he couldn't get them anyway)

I ask for the money (instead of a friends tegu)

Then he tells me ok I did produce some

I ask for pics which I think was totally reasonable

Purple is albino

But said I couldn't have a purple

Then when questioned he kept saying you will get one that will grow up like the one in the (raffle)photo?

Where was it coming from???????????

This is why I kept asking for pics.

Nothing "coy" about that
You'll get one like the photo , THE PHOTO WAS A T- ALBINO BLUE !!!! One he didn't produce and couldn't get.


IF AND ONLY IF he even ever intended to send me a t+ albino He should have just said that.
What about ok even though the purples are worth more I have decided to send the winners those.

That would have not left me guessing and I would have sent my info and had a tegu now.
his games ,shadyness of whatever you want to call is what caused all of this confusion!!

The first post said albino blue
The raffle (2nd) post said an albino tegu!!!
So the purple albino would have been the prize anyway as he did not clarify
he admitted this "mistake" in post #77

I highlighted the statements that I find the most confusing in this issue. Ty states that he will send Michelle an albino tegu, "like the one on the photo". What photo? The photo provided in the raffle? If that is true, I thought the photo for the raffle was of the "blue" version, which Ty admitted that he did not produce, and was unable to procure from any other source. If Ty was sending her a "blue" albino, where did it magically come from? If Ty was actually sending her a "purple" version, doesn't that variety *look* differently than the "blue" version? So how would it be possible for Ty Parks to send Michelle an albino tegu that would look just like the photo if he admittedly could not get a "blue" and the "purple" does not look like the provided photo in the raffle?

Now, admittedly I know next to nothing about the albino lines of tegus, so perhaps it IS possible for a "purple" albino to look just like a "blue" albino, but I doubt any typical judge in a court room will be any more versed than I am on this subject. So please convince me about how I am wrong about how this looks to me, personally.

So, considering the above, how could Michelle NOT have been confused about Ty's statements? I sure as hell am....

 

[Cletus Marley]

It's hard to tell which way is up anymore in this thread. So much info posted. I can't help but think that being rich, Ty can throw lots of money at this and get out of any sort of liability rather easily. Had it been me, I would have cut my losses and taken the animal that was offered to me. This could drag on for a very long time. Life is too short for that in my opinion. I'd rather be happy than right. I think the OP deserves what she is owed but getting what she is owed could very well end up costing way more than the initial investment or even the prize itself.

 

[DavidBeard]

Exposing Ty Park as a lying cheat is worth the price of admission IMO, but I agree....I might not have displayed the fortitude Michelle has, which can be both a curse and a blessing.

 

[AllisonLeigh]

I hate the logic that because he is rich, and it won't be easy, she should give up. So, if he hasn't had a successful previous career she should stick it to him? The idea of letting people treat you badly just because they have money is silly to me. If that were the case I would never buy anything from a successful company since they could screw me over and throw money at the problem to make it go away. Those with a lot of resources will have an easier time getting their way, yes... but they also have a hell of a lot more to lose.

I've heard the argument previously "why bother trying to sue him, he has nothing so you'll get nothing" and now this is a new one "why bother trying to sue him, he has tons of money so he'll win" (not direct quotes obviously ), so with this logic... who should we hold accountable for their actions? Only middle class people?

Mitigating losses is important, weighing the loss and gain is important, but letting someone walk all over you just because they have money is weak and just encourages this kind of behavior.

 

[Insomniac101]

I can't help but think that being rich, Ty can throw lots of money at this and get out of any sort of liability rather easily.

Maybe; maybe not. What a lousy way to behave though. Just breezing through life, attempting to buy your way out of any wrongdoings, and situations where you feel above others.

For all of Ty's alleged affluence, groupies, and whatever else, I still don't envy him one bit.

Kathy

 

[Cletus Marley]

I never said she was wrong because I don't think she is. I was just commenting on what a mess it is and what I would have done if it were me in this situation. More power to her. I think she got shafted and if she wants to see this to the end, I wish her the best. I'm not on Ty's side here. I agree that this a lousy way to behave. But it is what it is. I just think it sucks more for her than it does for him. I don't think his reputation is taking much of a hit over this. This is a minor speed bump for him. If even that. I don't remember which admin/mod it was that suggested that this might be consuming her life but I couldn't agree more. You can bet ol Ty isn't stewing over this night and day like she is. He has the resources to either make it go away or exit the situation unharmed. it sounds like he can live with himself. Is it a lousy way to be? Hell yeah it is. But it is what it is.