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Bad Guy Underground Reptiles, not so good

ronritzer

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For a company that promotes themselves as doing a real great job with their shipping, I was pretty displeased with my very recent order from them.
I ordered two Ornate Horned Frogs, One Pyxie and a brown Pacman Frog.
I was apprehensive because the classified ad said they dont gaurantee live arrival of amphibians or arachnids. But over the phone Rian told me that is only a general disclaimer for rare or not so hardy species,and that he gauranteed live arrival of my frogs.
So the next day I get my frogs I open the box, and this is what I found;

The deli cup on top was tipped sideways, inside was a dead Ornate Horned Frog pinned underneath a large and heavy wad of SOAKING wet new zealand moss.
below that was a deli cup that had been placed sideways (there was no ther way it would have fit in the box) with my pyxie pinned underneath the moss as well, but only his rear and legs, he was still alive luckily. Also soaking wet moss.
The other two deli cups were upright and those frogs were fine despite the soaking wet moss.

SO I informed them immediately and sent pictures. They apologized, and told me that my options were to take a credit toward my next order, or have the animals replaced on my next order. I reluctantly agreed to have the replacement animal shipped with my next order but heres teh problem....
I don't plan on purchasing any more frogs or herps of any sort for some time, and if I did I wouldnt order from them. Not that I have zero faith in their ability to ship, I just dont think they do a good job shipping frogs.

The deli cups should not have been placed sideways and they should not have contained soaking wet moss that was at least one hundred times the weight of these quarter sized baby frogs.

Shipping is expensive, and I wouldnt have put in an order and paid $45 dollars for for three frogs, thats why I ordered four.

I dont really want a refund and I dont want to order from them again to get the animal replaced, I want an Ornate Horned Frog, like I paid for.

It was their mistake, I feel they should eat the shipping and send me another frog.
 
If they had squeezed out the moss some, and used smaller deli cups that were masking taped into an upright position, it would have been fine.
He did apologize for the way it was packed and said he would "talk to his guys about it and find out who shipped it." But I still feel like he didn't do the right thing.
 
I reluctantly agreed to have the replacement animal shipped with my next order but heres teh problem.
I dont really want a refund and I dont want to order from them again to get the animal replaced, I want an Ornate Horned Frog, like I paid for.
It was their mistake, I feel they should eat the shipping and send me another frog.

It is always better to get things in writing, but you are saying that this person guaranteed live arrival over the phone. When the frog arrived dead (I'm sorry for your loss) did you talk to the same person?

I understand that you are upset over your frog and I would be too, but it doesn't seem right that you agreed to their offer and then you come here and do a bad guy on them. If you think that the verbal agreement for live arrival entitles you to a frog shipped now it seems to me you should have said so to them and not agreed to their offer of credit.
 
I understand that you are upset over your frog and I would be too, but it doesn't seem right that you agreed to their offer and then you come here and do a bad guy on them. If you think that the verbal agreement for live arrival entitles you to a frog shipped now it seems to me you should have said so to them and not agreed to their offer of credit.

I can understand agreeing to a shipment that isn't guaranteed live arrival because the animal is not "hardy" but no animal is "hardy" when they are crushed and or suffocated. I believe the gripe is legit because the frog most likely would be alive if it was shipped correctly.
 
Did you even read the post that you quoted??
Lucille is correct - the OP agreed to Underground's offer for resolution. Regardless of whether the frog would be alive if it was packaged differently, if he just wanted them to ship him another frog, he should have said so. If they declined, it would be easier to justify the bad guy tag. (Don't get me wrong - I'm not a fan.)
 
I'm a bit confused Ronald. First I profusely apologized that one of our newer employees incorrectly packed one frog. The other frog you said appeared to have fallen over during transit, which I also apologized for because measure should have been taken to avoid such an occurrence. I, in no way stated that you had to pay for shipping a second time but I asked that we replace it on your next order of animals. As is customary we would pay for shipping the addition of other animals can be beneficial for the both of us since you get free shipping and we don't lose as much money. You then simply asked for a refund which we were fine with. Then a short time later you changed your mine again, which we were also fine with. Maybe I am mistaken but at which point did we become a bad guy and deserve two seperate negative threads. I attached the emails that came from Ronald.

Ryan Borkan




Ah hell nevermind, I've been lookin around on the website and mulling things over and I'll probably be ordering some crested geckos soon so we can just ship another Ornate with that order.
________________________________________
From: Ronald Ritzer <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: frog order, DOA ornate.

Hi, just talked on the phone. I actually don't really intend on ordering any more animals any time in the near future, is there a way you could credit the cost of the animal back to my checking account?
________________________________________
From: Ronald Ritzer <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, August 2, 2012 12:06 PM
Subject: frog order, DOA ornate.


Here are some pics of the DOA ornate. The one that didnt make it was the more "high red" individual. It was the first one i took out of the box, and it appeared its deli cup had turned sideways and it had become pinned underneath the wet moss. The African Bullfrog was also sideways and pinned underneath the moss in its deli cup, but is fine. Both of the other frogs appear fine.
Thanks,
Ronald Ritzer
 
Rian, would you be willing to send him a replacement frog now with no cost to him? If you are I don't think there's anything else you can do.
 
I am sold out of the ornates, but I have a few other frogs. If he wants to wait I should have another group in next week. The offer to add animals at no extra cost for shipping, was just that an offer. He could have refused as he first did. As I thought I made clear to Mr. Ritzer I can replace the animal when more come in, refund him for the animal that died, or he could add more to the order and I still replace the animal. Whatever works best for him. I also just tried to call Mr. Ritzer to further explain this but he did not answer.

Ryan Borkan
 
The issue of me writing on behalf of the company has been resolved in the past I thought. I cannot make my own account with Underground Reptiles information because I am not the owner and would not want others to think so. I also do not wish to lie and forge Rian's name on these posts. This is my job and what I am paid to do. I handle and oversee all of our online accounts, posts and advertisements. I am so sorry for any confusion this causes.

Ryan Borkan
 
i don't understand the bad guy label, if a mistake happened and the seller offered to make it right in 3 different ways to please the buyer, things just happen sometimes, but i think the fact the seller gave 3 different solutions to make the guy happy says something...
just my thoughts
 
I am sold out of the ornates, but I have a few other frogs. If he wants to wait I should have another group in next week. The offer to add animals at no extra cost for shipping, was just that an offer. He could have refused as he first did. As I thought I made clear to Mr. Ritzer I can replace the animal when more come in, refund him for the animal that died, or he could add more to the order and I still replace the animal. Whatever works best for him. I also just tried to call Mr. Ritzer to further explain this but he did not answer.

Ryan Borkan

Those sound like 3 very fair options. Mr. Ritzer, will one of those solutions make this right for you?
 
it seems to me that underground reptile has tried to fix this issue where as the buyer doesnt like the three solutions that were offered by Ryan B. Shipping accindent do happen and cant always be avoided so ask the buyer to post pics of the shipping box and what was in it and post the pic of the DOA for this thread is lacking visual proof of a dead animal also i did some research on underground and they mention in they're youtube videos that they give a live arrival garantee on animals for proof there will be link with one dealing with they're backroom by ryan b. at end of this post I am very sorry that your animal died in transit and i understand that you are upset but when they have offered to fix the problem you walked away and posted this bad guy thread. i am pretty sure that if you give them a real chance they fix the problem as for that link here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFh4wPm6gcQ&feature=related
 
I think there was some confusion on my part about what was being offered then, it sounded like he was saying he would give me credit on my next order OR send another frog on my next order. I didn't know how to react to that, so I agreed to having it replaced, changed my mind and asked for the money back, then changed my mind again. If he had directly said he would send me another animal, I would have taken that offer, if he had said he was out of Ornates and would be getting some back in I would have waited.

I can accept that it was a new employee who made a mistake packing the stuff, things like that can happen when a new employee is in training. It seemed like the soaking wet moss was more of a problem then the sideways tilted cup. Had the moss not been so heavy, the frog probably would have been fine.

Now I feel like an idiot and Im not really sure what to do.
 
Now I feel like an idiot and Im not really sure what to do.

You've made a bad guy thread on someone who is not a bad guy in my opinion. I think if you would apologize to him and the company for the thread, and then just talk with him again on which of the choices he provided you want to go with, that would be a good start.
 
it seems to me that underground reptile has tried to fix this issue where as the buyer doesnt like the three solutions that were offered by Ryan B. Shipping accindent do happen and cant always be avoided so ask the buyer to post pics of the shipping box and what was in it and post the pic of the DOA for this thread is lacking visual proof of a dead animal also i did some research on underground and they mention in they're youtube videos that they give a live arrival garantee on animals for proof there will be link with one dealing with they're backroom by ryan b. at end of this post I am very sorry that your animal died in transit and i understand that you are upset but when they have offered to fix the problem you walked away and posted this bad guy thread. i am pretty sure that if you give them a real chance they fix the problem as for that link here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFh4wPm6gcQ&feature=related

I was only offered two options, "credit" or having it replaced on my next order. I wasnt sure what was implied by "credit" thinking it only implied a credit for the cost of the animal, so I took the latter. At no point was I left with the impression they would ship a replacement free of charge.
I could post the pictures of the dead animal, but I already sent them to Underground, they know what happened.
I was actually very impressed by their video of their shipping methods and thats probably the #1 reason I went with them.

They admitted that it was their mistake at the fault of a new employee, so in that consideration, they should send a replacement, but on the other hand, I feel like I've caused them a bit of trouble with this post. I don't know what to do. When I opened the box I was pretty let down, ruined my day so of course what i really wanted was the instant gratification of receiving a replacement.


I flip flopped about what I wanted done because it seemed like they weren't offering to send a replacement animal.
 
:iagree:

OP it is looking like you are a difficult customer, one who will never be satisfied ... regardless of a seller's attempts to make the situation right. IMO

Not usually, I tend to be rather agreeable. I should have asked what they meant by "credit," and the other option was to have it replaced on my next order. He never outright said he would simply ship me another frog.
 
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