Inquiry Underground Reptiles: Sick animal inquiry?

[tim brophy]

Regardless, I think the insinuation that if he were some big sponsor that he would receive some special status is bad enough. Wouldn't happen here and that you would suggest that would make some difference in how this thread is handled really is underhanded and lacking any basis in fact.

Nobody buys protection here.

Point taken and I agree with you, Dennis. I will continue to follow the thread to see if others post results of SFD infected animals. Thanks.

 

[tlmoon]

Something was off about the OP from the beginning, and the activist stuff fits the picture of having a goal in mind (stopping snake sales, getting F&W involved, whatever it was). It explains why he would post before having proof in hand and contacting UR. Almost like he already had the ending of the story in mind and the evidence would just have to fit the hypothesis, no matter what. It also explains the aggressiveness with which the OP tried to suppress any dissenting opinions. He wanted this story to go a certain way, and didn't want anyone saying anything otherwise.

Fortunately, we are not mindless robots here, and we can speak our minds and think for ourselves.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

Fortunately, we are not mindless robots here, and we can speak our minds and think for ourselves.

Some of us anyway.

 

[Big Borg Reptiles]

This just popped up on my facebook feed. Seem like weird timing to anyone?

 

[LauraB]

Yep ... weird timing. I would agree.

 

[bcr229]

This just popped up on my facebook feed. Seem like weird timing to anyone?

Not if you've visited any of the SFD groups on Facebook or if you did a Google search on the disease and brought up other articles to read. Facebook looks at your browsing history and throws stuff on your news feed based on keywords it finds. As an example I was researching online tire sellers a while ago. Almost immediately I started seeing ads for them on my Facebook feed.

 

[damaranum]

Sorry if it's offtopic, but the mentioned company is selling some Abronia graminea. They claim them to be CB but that's highly questionable... I don't think that anybody who is a bit into this genus can believe this statement

 

[Pasodama]

Sorry if it's offtopic, but the mentioned company is selling some Abronia graminea. They claim them to be CB but that's highly questionable... I don't think that anybody who is a bit into this genus can believe this statement

I don't know why not. There are those who have successfully bred, and do successfully breed, Abronia graminea.

That said, I would understand it, a little better, if the CB status was questioned simply due to the company (since they do deal with plenty of WC, etc.), &/or due the company's BOI threads, &/or if the speculation/conclusion was based off of the condition of the animal/s, etc.
However, unless there is proof/evidence to the contrary, one can only take them at their word in that they are being truthful.

~~~~

 

[Pasodama]

No idea how the thumbs up icon got placed in my post's subject line. LoL

~~~~

 

[damaranum]

Of course it's possible to breed this species, but to get them to the size offered it takes many months/years. And even then it's quite difficult to achieve this kind of coloration. Those animals are WC and I would bet a sum that those specimen are all pretty fresh WC ones. They even offer some captive hatched juveniles but aside that I wonder how they get through with this. Or do you believe that the have bred all the mixteca too ?

 

[Pasodama]

Of course it's possible to breed this species, but to get them to the size offered it takes many months/years. And even then it's quite difficult to achieve this kind of coloration. Those animals are WC and I would bet a sum that those specimen are all pretty fresh WC ones. They even offer some captive hatched juveniles but aside that I wonder how they get through with this. Or do you believe that the have bred all the mixteca too ?

I never stated what my beliefs were on the Abronia graminea that are being sold by UR. That makes your question, to me, nonsensical.
You, absolutely, missed my point and appear to be in a mood to be confrontational. That being the case, I bid you ado.

~~~~

 

[JimM]

I doubt anyone who breeds and raises these would sell them to a dealer , they'd already have a waiting list of people that want them. CB&B Abronia would be sold in a couple days posted here or KS if they needed to be advertised.

 

[damaranum]

I never stated what my beliefs were on the Abronia graminea that are being sold by UR. That makes your question, to me, nonsensical.
You, absolutely, missed my point and appear to be in a mood to be confrontational. That being the case, I bid you ado.

~~~~

I don't know what your problem is. All did was question the origin of the offered animals. The chance that all those offered animals are indeed CB is minimal. Of course I can't prove that, nobody can without any genetic tests, but everyone who has some knowledge on this genus, will say exactly the same.

 

[zovick]

I don't know what your problem is. All did was question the origin of the offered animals. The chance that all those offered animals are indeed CB is minimal. Of course I can't prove that, nobody can without any genetic tests, but everyone who has some knowledge on this genus, will say exactly the same.

Apparently there are CB ones being produced by some people according to this article: http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Lizard-Species/Abronia-Arboreal-Alligator-Lizards/

 

[Pasodama]

Apparently there are CB ones being produced by some people according to this article: http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Lizard-Species/Abronia-Arboreal-Alligator-Lizards/

That is all I was pointing out.

If CB status is questioned due to the animal's appearance, or due to a company's questionable reputation, etc., that is a different matter and one that I can understand.

However, to question whether, or not, an Abronia graminea is CB, ~solely~ based on its genus, is not what I consider a legitimate enough reason since there are people who have, and do, breed them with rather good success. CB Abronia graminea are out there.

Some people may never sell CB Abronia graminea, to a dealer, but there are those who, for whatever reason, just may.

Am not, and was not, defending UR. Was simply pointing out that just based on an animal's genus, when they have been captively bred (and are being successfully bred), is not good enough as the ~sole~ reason to question it's CB, vs WC, status.

~~~~

 

[Pasodama]

Something else I forgot to mention, I don't know if UR breeds Abronia graminea but they are not only a dealer. They do breed, some species of their own stock, as well.

~~~~

 

[KNOBTAIL]

I know for a fact, Rian, has bred Abronia. With ones i do not know. I am also sure that he has a communications system with other Abronia breeders. I dont think there are many coming into the US if any . The price is high on this species, and the quality between those who sell and buy are limited to breeding their stock. Not introducing any WC population that i am aware of.

 

[Eric Zukowski]

I deal a lot with Rian directly as a customer and a wholesaler he has been great on both ends. As far as the snake disease that the boi is originally about I acquired a eastern hog from probably the best breeder of the species and one of the 8 snakes had the very same flaky blisters I wasn't completely sure what it was but now I'm convinced it's the same disease this water snake has. My point is it appears to pop up despite how excellent they are being cared for. Sometimes these things happen & you can't always assign blame.

 

[AllisonLeigh]

Have you since contacted the breeder to let them know about this thread, and the potential risk? It sounds like a pretty serious, and newly researched, disease. If there are other breeders potentially selling infected snakes they should be made aware so they can have their stock tested. Maybe not put them out on blast immediately, but at least give them the opportunity to look into it themselves.

 

[damaranum]

That is all I was pointing out.

If CB status is questioned due to the animal's appearance, or due to a company's questionable reputation, etc., that is a different matter and one that I can understand.

However, to question whether, or not, an Abronia graminea is CB, ~solely~ based on its genus, is not what I consider a legitimate enough reason since there are people who have, and do, breed them with rather good success. CB Abronia graminea are out there.

Some people may never sell CB Abronia graminea, to a dealer, but there are those who, for whatever reason, just may.

Am not, and was not, defending UR. Was simply pointing out that just based on an animal's genus, when they have been captively bred (and are being successfully bred), is not good enough as the ~sole~ reason to question it's CB, vs WC, status.

~~~~

Like I said, my statement was definitely not general regarding if this genus is bred in captivity or not. I have kept this species before, I've seen many specimen, WC and CB, I've breed this species and so I guess I have the background for this statement. It's more than unlikely that the adult animals are CB. The first reason for this is the coloration. The vivid green adult animals from the wild have is nearly impossible to keep in captivity, even if the animals are kept outdoors and with a very good diet. The second reason is the business behavior of a company like this. Does anyone believe that mass animal traders would raise a species like this to sell them for the same price they are offering CH animals ? Like I said, it takes months/years to get them to adult size.
The chance that all those adult specimen they offer are CB is abysmal. That's all I wanted to point out. With the current listing in Annex II, Fish and Wildlife should be interested in offers like this too.