Bad Guy Underground Reptiles Stay away!!

[mfasano]

I recently made a purchase from Underground Reptiles for a male and 2 female panther geckos. On their website it showed that they were available but I got a call saying the females were out of stock. I asked if they can get more and they said in a week so I waited for them.
I get the geckos a week later. The females at the time look female but are small and very skinny. One female never eats and dies a week later. The other is doing great and growing fast but thats the problem. As it grew a hemipenal bulge grew with it. So the 2 females I waited for, one is dead and one is now a male. That leaves me with 2 males when I ordered one male and 2 females.
I didnt have pictures of the dead gecko so I did not ask for anything for it but for the gecko they sexed wrong I wanted a replacement.

Their response was I should have told them immediately! No way to tell immediately if the gecko is small and has no bulge yet.
I was offered a replacement female ONLY IF I MAKE ANOTHER PURCHASE FROM THEM. I dont need anything that they sell right now and even if I did there's no way I would give them more of my money if they cant take care of a $20 problem.
I should have checked the BOI before the purchase but hopefully this will help someone else if they're thinking about buying from them.
Emails will come soon
Thanks, Mel Fasano

 

[mfasano]

Here is a copy of the receipt they sent.

Underground Reptiles
To Me Sep 9
Underground Reptiles
Thank you for your order
Your order has been received and is now being processed. Your order details are shown below for your reference:
Order: #10022
Product Quantity Price
Juvenile Panther Gecko
sex: Male 1 $19.99
Juvenile Panther Gecko
sex: Female 2 $39.98
Cart Subtotal: $59.97
Shipping: $39.00 via FedEx Priority Overnight
Order Total: $98.97
Payment Method: PayPal
Delivery Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2014
Customer details
Email: [email protected]
Tel: 256-468-0527
Billing address
Melanie Fasano

Shipping address
Melanie Fasano

Thank you for your order
Underground Reptiles
undergroundreptiles.com
954-428-8005
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Email asking if they got the geckos in. they didnt ship out that day like they said.
Underground Reptiles
To Me Sep 16
Hi Melanie, we have them and they are scheduled to ship out today for delivery tomorrow for you.

-Drew


Underground Reptiles
Phone: 954-428-8005
Web: http://undergroundreptiles.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/undergroundreptiles
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ugreptiles
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com//UNDERGROUNDREPTILES

On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 1:53 AM, Melanie Fasano <[email protected]> wrote:
Subject: order Message: Hi just checking to see if you were able to get the pictus geckos for order #10022.
Thanks This email has been sent by Melanie Fasano (email. [email protected] phone. %phone%).
http://undergroundreptiles.com/contact/



Me
To Underground Reptiles Sep 17
Do you have a tracking number? Fedex came today but didnt have the geckos


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Underground Reptiles
To Me Sep 17
Hi Melanie, I apologize but we did not get the order out yesterday. It is scheduled for today for delivery tomorrow.

-Drew


Me
To Underground Reptiles Sep 17
Thanks tomorrow is fine


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Underground Reptiles
To Me Sep 17
OK, we are sending it out today for delivery tomorrow.

-Drew


Underground Reptiles
Phone: 954-428-8005
Web: http://undergroundreptiles.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/undergroundreptiles
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ugreptiles
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com//UNDERGROUNDREPTILES

Show message history


Me
To Underground Reptiles Oct 8 at 10:39 AM
I ordered 1 male and 2 female Panther geckos. Waited a week for more girls because there were none available. Both girls were very skinny when they arrived. One of the girls is now a boy, I dont know about the other possible girl, it never ate and died.


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On Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:30 PM, Underground Reptiles <[email protected]> wrote:


OK, we are sending it out today for delivery tomorrow.

-Drew


Underground Reptiles
Phone: 954-428-8005
Web: http://undergroundreptiles.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/undergroundreptiles
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ugreptiles
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com//UNDERGROUNDREPTILES


On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Melanie Fasano <[email protected]> wrote:
I ordered 1 male and 2 female Panther geckos. Waited a week for more girls because there were none available. Both girls were very skinny when they arrived. One of the girls is now a boy, I dont know about the other possible girl, it never ate and died.


On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 12:09 PM, Underground Reptiles <[email protected]> wrote:


Please send me a picture of the deceased animal and your setup. I do apologize about this. Why did you not contact us immediately in reference to the condition of these animals?


Underground Reptiles
Phone: 954-428-8005
Web: http://undergroundreptiles.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/undergroundreptiles
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ugreptiles
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com//UNDERGROUNDREPTILES


On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Melanie Fasano <[email protected]> wrote:
I did not contact right away because I was told they were being sent to you. So shipping to you then right to me, they would be under weight with the days they were shipped. I didnt think much of it. The girl died weeks ago and I thought I had one more girl so I considered her a loss, I was still ok with having a pair. I know its not a husbandry issue. I've had 10 years experience working with and breeding geckos and 3 years with Panthers. They are misted twice a day. Warm hide and a cool hide. Offered appropriate sized roaches, crickets and mealworms. Paper towels changed every week.
What I'm upset with is the other one that is still living that was sexed wrong and leaves me with no girls and 2 boys(one that I bought and one that was suppose to be a girl) that are useless without a girl.
I'm not asking for anything from the dead gecko. I couldnt tell for sure if it was a boy or girl at her size an condition when I checked. I would just like to have a 100% definate girl.

Attatched are pictures of the setup and pictures of the bulge the other girl is growing.



On Wednesday, October 8, 2014 3:05 PM, Underground Reptiles <[email protected]> wrote:


Melanie,

Without contacting us immediately there is not much I can do. I would be happy to credit you for one in full which you can use toward your next order or toward getting another panther on your next order. Thank you.

Ryan B.


Underground Reptiles
Phone: 954-428-8005
Web: http://undergroundreptiles.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/undergroundreptiles
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ugreptiles
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com//UNDERGROUNDREPTILES


On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 5:03 PM, Melanie Fasano <[email protected]> wrote:
Really?? How can I contact you immediately about a gecko YOU missexed when it was too small to sex when I got it It just now started growing a bulge.And I conatcted you as soon as I saw the sexing mistake. I bought a male and 2 FEMALES. You sent 2 males and another one that could have been male or female. So why would I have to make another order before you fix YOUR mistake?? Why would I ever want to order again if you wont fix a $20 mistake unless I spend more money with you.
So how exactly can you not do anything about misrepresenting the male I have? All I asked for was a female to replace the male you, Underground Reptiles, missexed.
I should not have to make another purchase to have your mistake fixed.


On Thursday, October 9, 2014 12:18 PM, Underground Reptiles <[email protected]> wrote:


If an animal is misexed or as you say to young to sex, or sick, or misrepresented we must be notified that day. We cannot wait two weeks to be notified. A lot can happen in two weeks. I don't even have a way to confirm the one that died was not a female. I have no way to confirm that the animals in question were ours. However if we are notified that day we can confirm these things. I am sure you would never do something like that but there are a lot of people who do. I also am still willing to replce the one that died with any sex of your choosing as a courtesy but will do so on your next order. I apologize again and do not want you to be unsatified, but please try to see it from my perspective. Thank you.

Ryan B.


Underground Reptiles
Phone: 954-428-8005
Web: http://undergroundreptiles.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/undergroundreptiles
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ugreptiles
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com//UNDERGROUNDREPTILES


Me
To Underground Reptiles Today at 1:05 PM
There is no way i could have told you the day it was delivered because there was no bulge at that time. It was your fault on the sexing. I was told you were out of stock on the females so I asked if you would get more in and you told me in a week you would have females. It came in looking like it could be a female but it was still small. I sent pictures of the one still living to show it has a bulge. The dead gecko is not even in the picture, I did not ask for a replacement for him/her. I only asked for a replacement on the gecko I know you missexed and is still living. It was your mistake and I should not have to make another order to get what I already paid for. It doesnt matter if it was that day or a year from now, a female should still be a female.

I know you dont care as I have seen the many other posts but I will let the BOI know not to do business with you.

Melanie Fasano

 

[CombatWombat]

Hi Mel,
Can you post proof of your conversations with Underground Reptiles?
Also have they been informed of this thread?

 

[mfasano]

They were informed in my last email to them that I will be posting on the BOI. Email proof posted above.

 

[CombatWombat]

Looks like we posted at the same time, sorry about that.

 

[bcr229]

PayPal isn't likely to be much help because the transaction involves animals and you did get shipped a package.

If your PayPal payment is linked to a credit card and not your bank account you can attempt to get a refund via your credit card company.

 

[mfasano]

I believe it was through my debit card.

 

[Ed Clark]

Melanie, sorry you had to learn the hard way that under ground is a shady business that should be avoided.

They will BS you about their TOS, etc, etc trying to wear you down so you will just give up.

Don't give up the good fight.

 

[mfasano]

Melanie, sorry you had to learn the hard way that under ground is a shady business that should be avoided.

They will BS you about their TOS, etc, etc trying to wear you down so you will just give up.

Don't give up the good fight.

If someone reads this and it saves them the trouble of buying from them I will consider that a win.
I read their other bad guy threads so I'm not expecting them to do the right thing. If I can keep someone else from going through the trouble of buying from them I will consider that a win.

 

[bcr229]

I believe it was through my debit card.

Your bank may help. Can't hurt to ask.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

I've watched the show 20 mins underground a bunch of times. The owner Ryan says all the time that it pisses him off when people say that he is all about the money and less about the animals. I mean COME ON. These are $20 geckos that they are sending out sick and and they are blaming you for them sexing the one gecko incorrectly. Give me a break. They have been around for years. It's obvious they are never going to get it right. As long as we keep lining his pockets with $100 bills he will continue to sell us sick, diseased and half dead animals.
Ryan you need to replace those geckos and suck up the shipping cost. All your trying to do is to get him to buy something else so he has to pay for the shipping then you will replace your mistakes.
********UNDERGROUND REPTILES IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!! ********
There TOS is designed to screw you out of your money!!!

 

[Will0W783]

I had a pretty good experience with Underground Reptiles earlier this year. I bought a few of their rhinoceros viper babies. I knew I was buying imported, farmed animals, and they shipped them in very damp containers, but the snakes are doing great. I had a few issues with the flights getting them shipped, and the guy I spoke to on the phone was very helpful and kept in touch. He even called me later in the night to make sure the snakes had arrived safely and that I was happy. Overall, I was impressed with the service and my purchase from them.

I hadn't read anything either way about them before my order, so maybe I was just lucky. But I'm happy with my rhinos and they are growing like weeds.

 

[guyanabill]

Underground was told about the sexing mistake as soon as it was noticed and really why would a time frame even matter, the animal was sold as a sexed female and turned out male, isn't that grounds enough for a replacement animal to be sent with shipping costs both ways covered since its their mistake? The fact that the animal was garaunteed a female and wasn't should trump and timeframe written into a TOS.

 

[Craig Wyatt]

Bill. You said that perfectly. What's funny is they see it differently. That's because ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!! Underground only cares about 1 thing. THE MONEY!!!! As long as it makes it to you with a few breaths left in its body then basically there done with you.

 

[Lucille]

One would think that after a recent, highly publicized thread Underground would not risk another Bad Guy thread over a twenty dollar lizard or two.
I'm with the OP here, if a lizard does not show physical signs of being a male for a few weeks, how could Underground be notified immediately.

When the OP first went to order she was told that there were no females. I'm wondering if this was a setup, whether Underground knew that the OP would not be able to tell for a few weeks and just sent whatever they had around, knowing that time and TOS would shaft her if they made an error.


Recent thread:
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=500292


Rian,

Send this customer two nice female geckoes and pay the shipping. A reasonably priced way to show that customer service at Underground is not completely dead. You need to turn your rep around here.

 

[Skinker]

Underground's TOS, found at http://undergroundreptiles.com/terms-and-conditions/, is worded in a way that they can weasel out of almost any responsibility in most foul outcomes. My advice is to cut your losses and look for females elsewhere, they're just trying to keep you on the hook with their store credit.

That said, they actually do not have a time limit listed for contacting them regarding wrongly sexed animals. If you in fact received a 100% sex guarantee they owed you credit on the second male regardless of time elapsed. Just don't expect them to cover shipping. Even if the mistake is 100% theirs the cost of fixing it comes straight from the customer's pocket.

* We cannot be held responsible for shipping charges incurred for upholding our guarantee; they are the responsibility of you, the buyer. We do not offer credits or refunds on shipping for replacement animals.

Of course, if you did not get them to actually say that they guaranteed the sex on these geckos they could have easily used the wording on their TOS to wiggle out of owing you anything

* Underground Reptiles will do their best to sex your animal using our experience but we cannot guarantee the sex on any animal unless otherwise specified.

but I suspect this card is reserved for more expensive purchases. As it is, they're surely still in the green with your order as they so cleverly are never responsible for shipping costs.


Here are their terms in full, cut and pasted straight from http://undergroundreptiles.com/terms-and-conditions/ - customer beware.

*Note that your failure to read our terms and conditions, whether intentional or accidental will under no circumstances be reason to consider them altered or void.

* Underground Reptiles ships during the week Monday-Thursday with the exception of holidays.

* Underground Reptiles has a no refund policy for all retail and wholesale orders. However we will offer store credit.

* In some instances, if a refund is granted, a 15% restocking fee may apply.

* Underground Reptiles does not guarantee live arrival on inverts or amphibians.

* Underground Reptiles will do their best to sex your animal using our experience but we cannot guarantee the sex on any animal unless otherwise specified.

* Underground Reptiles ships Fed-Ex priority overnight. We do not ship venomous snakes via Fed-Ex. Please do not ask. Mammals are shipped airport to airport via commercial airlines according to IATA regulations. Airline rates do apply. There is sometimes an additional fee for boxing and/or health certificate.

* The buyer must be present to receive the package on the first delivery attempt or all guarantees are void.

* Live and visibly healthy arrival is only guaranteed when shipping temperatures at both ends are between 35° – 90°F for home delivery and 25F° – 99F° for having the animal shipped to a Fed-Ex facility for pick up. We will still guarantee the animal if you opt to have the package held at a Fed-Ex facility for pick up however the animal must be picked up within 4 hours of arrival at the Fed-Ex facility or all guarantees are void. Otherwise, we can hold the animal(s) at our facility until temperatures are safe for shipping.

* We are not responsible for carrier delays or mishandling resulting in DOA* animals.

* All animals have a live and healthy arrival guarantee. We cannot offer any guarantee after the arrival.

* We cannot be held responsible for shipping charges incurred for upholding our guarantee; they are the responsibility of you, the buyer. We do not offer credits or refunds on shipping for replacement animals.

* If the animal(s) is dead or not visibly healthy upon arrival the customer must notify Underground Reptiles of the deceased or unhealthy animal immediately upon receiving the animal(s). The arrival time will be determined by the tracking information Fed-Ex provides online of the delivery. If the first attempt of delivery is missed then all live and visibly health arrival guarantees are null and void. An email with a photo attached of the actual animal must be emailed within one hour of arrival or all guarantees are null and void.

* We reserve the right to refuse sale to any buyer, for any reason. Sorry, no sales to minors. Proof of age may be required at our discretion.

* Underground Reptiles is not responsible for any veterinary expenses or costs incurred by the buyer for any animal. If you take any animal to a veterinarian, you do so entirely at your own expense.

* Photos and requests: The animals pictured on our web site may or may not be the actual animal available. The photos do represent the species, and the health and quality of the animals we ship. We can send more pictures of any animal you are interested in by contacting us.

* Photos, descriptions and care sheets posted on our web site are the exclusive property of Underground Reptiles, and may not be used or reused without our specific, written permission.

* In accordance with FDA regulations, turtles and tortoises less than 4 inches listed on our web site are offered expressly for educational, scientific or export purposes only. They are not sold for use as pets.

* You can contact us either by phone (954-428-8005) or email ( [email protected]) If you have specific questions/requests, feel free to ask; we will respond accordingly. We can be reached Monday through Saturday from 11:00 AM – 8:00 PM.

* Please be aware of your own local wildlife laws and regulations. No shipments will be knowingly sent in violation of any state or federal laws. Please do not even ask.

* Underground Reptiles reserves the right to alter these terms and conditions at any time and in its sole discretion.

*DOA = Dead on Arrival

 

[guyanabill]

* Underground Reptiles will do their best to sex your animal using our experience but we cannot guarantee the sex on any animal unless otherwise specified.

Right there, its written RIGHT there in their TOS that they can not guarantee sex on any animal UNLESS OTHERWISE SPECIFIED.

These geckos were sold as females! Holy crap, Underground, give the guy the $20 or whatever the gecko cost back and live up to YOUR OWN T.O.S.!!!

 

[predators]

I've watched the show 20 mins underground a bunch of times. The owner Ryan says all the time that it pisses him off when people say that he is all about the money and less about the animals. I mean COME ON. These are $20 geckos that they are sending out sick and and they are blaming you for them sexing the one gecko incorrectly. Give me a break. They have been around for years. It's obvious they are never going to get it right. As long as we keep lining his pockets with $100 bills he will continue to sell us sick, diseased and half dead animals.
Ryan you need to replace those geckos and suck up the shipping cost. All your trying to do is to get him to buy something else so he has to pay for the shipping then you will replace your mistakes.
********UNDERGROUND REPTILES IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!! ********
There TOS is designed to screw you out of your money!!!

Does the owner really mention in the videos that he is upset when people say he is all about the money and not about the animals?
hahahahah, WOW.
I have had conversations with him years ago where he flat out told me it was all about the money. He smuggled in reptiles and killed count less thousands in his attempt to make a dollar. Than went to prison for it
Dont get me wrong he is a business man and certainly should try and and turn as much of a profit as he can and I am not saying this man has to be the patron saint of animals but, come on.. to actually come out and say that on a video.. Its like a lie on top of a lie on top of a lie.

 

[Arachno]

I've heard that someone sued Ryan and got him on Judge. LOL I would love too that episode

 

[cornchips]

Ive boughten quite a few animals from Underground, including some nice kenyan sand boas and have had only one bad experience.I think people need to be aware they do sell wild caught animals as well as cb.
I bought 3 tokays from them and all three died, one within a week and the other two several weeks after, even after treatment for parasites.
BUT Ive recently got an awesome ball python baby and he is perfectly healthy.
So its a petstore, hit and miss especially with wild caughts.