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Bad Guy UndergroundReptiles GTP's

C

CHERI GUNTER

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I just wanted to warn everyone out there about Underground Reptiles and their GTPs. My husband and I collect GTP's as our own personal hobby. We do not breed to sell and make a profit. My husband purchased (2) GTP's from Underground Reptiles through their web-site. We waited about 4 day's before finally calling them to find out what was going on and they told us they didn't have what we wanted but they had other reptiles to offer. We told them that was fine and asked to see pictures. We waited 2 day's before my husband called back to ask what happened with the pictures since we never recieved any. They then sent us pictures just of 1 male and no females at the time. My husband then called back to try to clarify that we had purchased a male and female. They informed my husband that they had a field captured specimen that had been mixed in with the rest of their "inventory" and had spread a virus throughout the rest of the chondro's! They offered us a male and female of different locales that were supposedly given a clean bill of health from a vet. We accepted and a few weeks later, when weather permitted the GTP's were shipped out. The female was great and just as described. However the male was very aggressive (as are most chondro's) but he wouldn't ever eat. He would attack his prey and run away from it. We waited a while and tried to feed again thinking that he won't eat because of the winter and being in a new enviroment. But he continued to refuse food. Then my husband came home last tuesday (2/15/11) and called me saying that the new male was very weak and sick. So my husband then took the male GTP to the vet. The vet could not figure out what was wrong with the GTP, but he gave him some anti-biotic's and told my husband he would be surprised if he lived much longer. The poor guy passed away that night! My husband contacted Ryan at Underground Reptiles the next day, and he was told that there was nothing they could do for us since it took so long for us to contact him! The reptile obviously had contracted a virus from their facility and now we were stuck with a dead chondro and because it took 3 weeks to die it was our fault??? I just felt if was important to let everyone know to be cautious of buying chondro's from Underground Reptiles, you could end up with a dead snake and a empty wallet! :shrug01:
 
Allow me to elaborate on the facts of this case. First off we did not send you any snakes from any such sick batch. We informed your husband that we could not send out the snake he originally ordered because one of the employees introduced some field collected chondros to a group of captive bred and farm bred animals and because of this we had to quarantine and treat all of the snakes. We also told you that we were having our vet check each snake and run cultures on the snakes to make sure that they were fine. The snake we sent you was a captive bred animal that was from another facility. This snake was two year old hold back and not the six month to one year old snakes listed in our ad. Your husband was very happy for the exchange. The snakes you are referring to were cleared by the vet but are still currently being held in quarantine at another location. Again no one ever said anything about a virus. When we talked to your husband on the phone he indicated that your snake had in fact killed a mouse but because you had fed a live mouse that it appeared your snake may have been bitten in the mouth and from that point would shy from live food. We had informed you upon purchasing the chondros that these animals were eating frzn thawed. Furthermore, in the three weeks you had this animal you never once called or wrote us that this animal was in any way sick or not feeding. Furthermore, why have you neglected to mention that the other snake you have is doing just fine and was with your supposed sick snake. Also your husband was quite content yesterday with getting a discount on another chondro and understood that the animal arrived healthy and alive which is exactly what we guarantee. I also must mention the merauke you claim was never right, was the one snake you wrote back to us about in an email. You were so happy with him you wanted another one as shown in the email.

From: Adam Hall <[email protected]>
To: Underground Reptiles <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 3:16:49 PM
Subject: Re: Chondro pics


I really like the male Merauke, do you have anything in a female closer to the same age as the Merauke in a different locale? Lerah/Sorong/Wamena or even a cross? Thanks,
-Adam
(530)615-9452

We have been happy to work with you this entire time and will still be happy to work with you in the future and give you the discount we promised even. I hope we can resolve this issue. Thank you.

Ryan Borkan
Underground Reptiles
(954)428-8005
 
I think you might have killed that male -

Male Chondro's can go off feed for months and months. I have a pair I bought as adults in 2007. The male ate one time between October 2006 and August 2007.

He does the same thing at some point every year.
Yet, here's a pic I took of him from February 5, 2011:
male-wamena-05feb11-pic2.jpg


---- To top this off, you kept him WITH a female Chondro and you wonder why it did not want to eat?

Also - when Chondro's get ready to shed they often will not eat AND you can't tell they are opaque until they are well into the shed cycle.

Chondro's are wonderful snakes but I have had seemingly perfect snakes that just drop dead for no reasons sometimes (for that matter, sometimes people just drop dead also... it happens to all types of animals).

Welcome to the world of keeping exotic snakes.

I think that Underground Reptiles is clean in this one...
 
CHERI GUNTER said:
The vet could not figure out what was wrong with the GTP
Click to expand...
So, the vet did not know what was wrong

Cheri Gunter said:
The reptile obviously had contracted a virus from their facility
Click to expand...

But after taking the critter to a qualified professional who did no diagnose it with a virus, you decided to diagnose it with a virus yourself?



Y'all collect GTPs, or so you say. From what I understand, they go off feed for all sorts of reasons.

I'm sorry you lost your snake.
 
Sounds more like your husbandry practices killed this one.. BUT that's just one @-holes opinion..
 
I've never received a "bad" or sick reptile from Underground and agree that you and your husband's poor husbandry is probably what was the demise of the animal.

Do you have proof of the vet visit?????


I've owned chondro's and know they're a sensitive species especially when not being cared for optimally.

I think you may have jumped the gun on making a Bad Guy thread about Underground when it doesn't sound like their problem.
 
I would recommend hydration rather than feeding these guys be your first priority. Stress can make them dyhydrate quickly, and if you feed them a high-protein meal on top of that, you will most-likely be on the way to renal failure. Now since the deceased animal did not eat, I'm wondering if you were able to get it to drink, and how you accomplished this. I killed my very first ETB by watering her with melting ice cubes on top of her cage and letting her drink the drippings. This was about 15 years ago, so I learned a hard lesson about the temp of their water not being too cold. A local breeder I know showed me how he uses aireation going in their water bowls to attract them to it, and they do wonderfully at keeping their fluid intake up.
The first thing I always want to do is see a new snake eat, but over the years, I've learned to be patient, read the animal well, and know when it is time to offer prey items. I also always check with the prior owner and find out what and how they were feeding the little buzzards.
Just my $0.02
 
I just dealt with Underground recently and i have to say they were fantastic to deal with, Ryan was very prompt on his responses, and i recieved my ATB and he was beautiful, been eating F/T like a champ( He was W/C). TY underground, will deal with again real soon.
 
I've purchased a baby Biak GTP and a Western Hognose from Underground, and I have nothing but positive things to say. I am in the store every week for feeders and supplies and all of the staff has been extremely helpful, especially Rian himself. The store is clean, and the animals are all in a nice environment.

Cheri, they recommended frozen-thawed to you...I know that for a fact...they always do...why did you feel the need to feed live?

Also, did you house these snakes together? Or did you quarantine them separately?

One last thing, for the sake of my own sanity...will you please go over your GTP setup? Cage size, temps, substrate, cage furnature, food items (size, how often, live or killed).

Underground is STILL willing to work with you, and willing to make you happy...that is excellent customer service...because, to be honest with you, i'm not sure i'd be willing to do anything for you at this point, if you had bought from me.
 
I'm confused you had it for 3 weeks and it died? I had a large collection of Chondros for years and I only fed them every 3 weeks so it didn't starve to death in 3 weeks. When did it last feed for them? The other one is perfectly healthy and kept the same exact way? How are they kept temps, cage size, what type of heat etc.. My biggest question is was it captive bred and born in the us or an captive born/hatch import?
 
Gotta go with the group on this one. There are far to many inconsistencies in your story to lay any blame for the animals demise on Underground Reptiles.

Starting this thread was not a particularly well thought out event. The only one looking bad here is you
 
Yeah i also have to agree it seems like a husbandry issue. My male Chondro is on a eating strike right now, but i continually offer and just make sure the cage is clean and he is acting normal. It's just part of the game with owning snakes.

It seems Underground Reptiles has been more than willing to help you out and they even told you they had a POSSIBLE virus go through the facility and were taking each snake to the vet individually.

Now I know a good amount of breeders wouldn't even tell you this information due to the fact most customers over react when they hear that a disease MIGHT be spread. The fact they told you and STILL guaranteed that the animals would arrive healthy just shows how good of a business they run.

Honestly, I would go back to the basics and read a couple more books on "Green Tree Python Care 101", and rack this experience up as a mistake on your part.
 
I purchased a Male Manokwari GTP from UR just this past winter and he's doing awesome. Couldn't be more pleased with him. He's eaten every meal offered, sheds perfectly, loves the females, and looks amazing. What more can I ask for? Underground Reptiles did me right with my GTP. :thumbsup:
 
Cheri, they recommended frozen-thawed to you...I know that for a fact...they always do...why did you feel the need to feed live
Click to expand...


although i agree with it not being ur fault what does feeding live to a gtp show fault on the buyers part :shrug01: i have over 15 gtps some eat frozen some eat live feeding them live does not mean they are going o get sick or go off feed i am not getting your whole point with that comment. lst time i checked snakes eat live prey in the wild never heard of a snake going to a freezer in PNG dethawing a rat and eating it.
 
gsrept said:
although i agree with it not being ur fault what does feeding live to a gtp show fault on the buyers part :shrug01: i have over 15 gtps some eat frozen some eat live feeding them live does not mean they are going o get sick or go off feed i am not getting your whole point with that comment. lst time i checked snakes eat live prey in the wild never heard of a snake going to a freezer in PNG dethawing a rat and eating it.
Click to expand...

Each of my rather discerning serpents have their own little freezer and microwave oven in their modest bungalows, along with a plasma widescreen (they don't like the LEDs or LCDs with their slightly under-par refresh-rates), and a lifetime subscription to animalplanet in HD.
They also prefer white over red wine except on the occasions when they have friends over, which then, of course, they break out the Chianti.:yesnod:
 
Each of my rather discerning serpents have their own little freezer and microwave oven in their modest bungalows, along with a plasma widescreen (they don't like the LEDs or LCDs with their slightly under-par refresh-rates), and a lifetime subscription to animalplanet in HD.
They also prefer white over red wine except on the occasions when they have friends over, which then, of course, they break out the Chianti.
Click to expand...

:rofl:
 
Sorry for your loss OP and thanks UGR for being so professional.

IMO, three weeks is too long to guarantee an animal, however, dismissing it as husbandry is blasphemous without knowing the details. A sick snake doesn't have a short window in which it must die. This snake did not die of startvation, I assume, because it would have been visually noted from the get go. If both snakes were kept in the same conditions, why is one dead and the other fine? Maybe it was just the snakes time? I'm not trying to push them blame, just keeping an open mind on the details presented, not assumed.
 
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