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Updates- Hatched Veileds LOTS OF PICS

D

dragonflyreptiles

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So far we have 8 completely out of the egg and set up, 1 hatched today still in incubator with 3 more with their little heads poking out of the eggs only 51 more to go lol.

There are quite a few pics so it may take a while to load them.

I feel very blessed to have these babies, all girls so far and hope you enjoy the pics.
 
Wendy,

I don't see a UVB bulb on your baby cage...just thought I'd remind you that the UV light is vital, especially in periods of rapid growth.

Chris
 
Thanks Chris, I have a Reptisun 10 on them in the house, pretty nice bulb. They are now outside on the nice days in a screen cage so they are getting the real thing too.
 
Wendy,

Careful, studies have shown that extended exposure to high UVB radience levels are detrimental to reproductivity in chams. That bulb produces more than the standard levels of UVB captive chams are exposed to and in your setup, does not allow for any type of UVB gradient for the babies to naturally regulate their exposure. With the standard 5.0 tube, the radience distance is shorter than in this bulb allowing for better self regulation and the intensity is less minimizing the negative effects of high levels of UV radiation while still providing UVB levels that have shown themselves to be sufficient under most circumstances. Just something to keep in mind. I'm sure in time those bulbs will be used in more of these studies and a better idea of their usefulness and pitfalls with chams will become apparent but at the very least, in the mean time I'd make sure a gradient is available to avoid potential complications.

Chris
 
Thanks for the info, also those pics are over 2 weeks old from when they hatched and I sorted them in the tank for the first few days until they were eating, they are all in screen cages now and outside during the day.

When they were in the tank that few days the light was tilted so that they could get in the area they needed, there is alot of focus towards the left side and alot less on the right from the angle of the bulb. And lots of plants for them to hide under.
 
Studies do not show that in fact. My recently published book on cham keeping states clearly that 1 hour of a higher rated UV bulb is more adequate. The lower level bulbs have nearly no effect on that chams. This is why they must sit there the entire day to achive adequate amts of UV for the day. However the book clearly goes on to state that there are not enough studies to solidify the claim that a lower rated UV light is better. It seams up in the air for now but I can attest to its beniefits from the moment i plugged it in.

I use mystic bulbs and I can persoanlly account for the immediate color and behavior changes from it. When my baby Nose Be grew up under the 5.0 bulb he had no visual response to it at all.
In my opinion she is doing every thing correctly now that she provided cover for the babies.

Please note that that bulb may be too strong for such a small tank and one made of glass at that. My chams are in a massive cage(6ftx3ftx3ft) and the bulb is at closest 9-10 inches from them unless they crawl underneath the screen, which rarely happens. One other note is that with that bulb and my mystic bulbs are not needed all day as with the weak 5.0 ones. Cycle it on and off during the day for 1 hour at a time to prevent over exposure. Since the chams like it so much more they will stay there and burn themselves.

Mine goes on 4 times a day for 1 hr each, 8-9, 11-12, 2-3, 5-6 respectively. I have tons of cover as well. There are pics under the "massive cage thread"
 
PS I do currently use the 5.0 bulb for raising up my new baby cham (sambava) as did I with the Nose Be, and yes it served its purpose but for my large cage the more powerful lights are a must. I do agree that using that hard core of a bulb in a small cage would create issues with over exposure.
Do not read into others opinions or Hypotheses, try one out and I gurantee you will notice immediate color changes in your chams. You can easily affirm this by placing them outside during mid noon and seeing them come alive as compared to being under the 5.0 bulb.
In the wild they do not sit under the direct sun 12 hrs a day but rather expose themselves for shorter periods. When my chams are outside I see them at most basking in the direct sun for 1 hr then going deep into the ficus tree to roam around.
These are simple basic observations of mine not taken from 1 single internet site but rather from having my 3 chams with good sucess. I read a lot of research and ask a lot of questions from breeders and then formulate what I think will work best.
 
Thanks for the info, when they were in the glass tank I did have it on for 10 hours a day, they stayed in there about 3 days until they were eating, then moved to 38 gallon reptariums 10 in each and they are outside half under a tree from around 10am til dark with lots of foilage and a mister system. They were only in the 20 tall so I could odserve them and make sure they were eating before moving them to larger cages.

I will make sure with the next batch to only use the UVB off and on while they are in the starter tank, thanks Jack, great info!
 
Jack,

Hate to say it but you're information is way off and it seems like you've totally misinterpreted your book. To begin with, I'm citing scientific studies published in various biological journals, not a general chameleon husbandry book. I would recommend you go read the following articles:

Ferguson, G.W., Gehrmann, W.H., Chen, T.C., Dierenfeld, E.S. & Holick, M.F. (2002). Effects of Artificial Light Exposure on Reproductive Success of the Female Panther Chameleon (Furcifer pardalis) in Captivity. Zoo Biology 21: 525-537.
Lindgren, J. (2004). UV-lamps for terrariums: Their spectral characteristics and efficiency in promoting vitamin D3 synthesis and UVB irradiation. Herpetomania 3-4:13-20.

Let me quote a few lines of that may be of interest to you.

"Some commercially available, low-intensity, UV-generating fluorescent tubes can provide adequate amounts of UVB in indoor artificial-light set-ups if used properly. Some may also provide too much UV if irradiation is provided for too long a period." (Ferguson et. al)
"The use of high UVB-generating fluorescent tubes can be harmful to the lizards and the keeper and as such are not recommended." (IBID)
"UVB requirements for juvenile and adult male panther chameleons are lower than those for adult females." (IBID)
"Female panther chameleons are attracted to UV light, and it they are provided with a light gradient containing a substantial component of UVB they appear to be able to adjust their exposure based on dietary vitamin D intake. However, they may not be able to photoregulate effectively in an artificial UV gradient that provides too strong a UVB irradiance." (IBID)
"While short exposure to high UVB-emitting sunlamps also promotes successful reproduction, extended use shortens the reproductive longevity of the adult chameleon, can promote skin tumors and shorten the life span of the chameleon (personal observation), and is potentially dangerous to the keper." (IBID)
"Of all the lamps measured, the best contributor to vitamin D3 photosynthesis in skin is Zoo Med ReptiSun [5.0], with a D3 Tield Index of 439." (Lingren)

Now, higher intensity bulbs with longer radience distances are great when the animals are provided a sufficient UV gradient. In the vast majority of enclosures, they are NOT and as a result, use of these high level irradience bulbs is dangerous, regardless of whatever preceived color improvement you might think you see.

Chris
 
Did you see the pics of my set up? It has plenty of room to escape from the UV if they wish to. Again the main issue with stronger bulbs is that they can not be left on for extended periods of time. There is no difference if you supply very little UV to the cham all day or supply him with enough in an hour for a days requirement.
 
Man I am going to have to look into all of this a bit further. I just dont think that a 5.0 bulb would do much in my set up due to how large it is. They are only good up to 12 inches and even then I am not so sure that with the cage size they would perch under it all day for proper UV levels. The folks at BIG APPLE HERP stand behind this bulb 100 percent and insist that it is superior to what is currently out there right now. All I can say is that a 5.0 bulb might be good for those people with smaller cages where the cham is going to be near it most of the time. In my set up they would basically need to to be directly under it and half the problem would be them finding that area. As it is now my chams seems to recognize when the mystic bulb comes on and moves his way slowly to it.
Like I said its on for 1 hour at a time 4 times a day. I watch him and he seems to be near it off and on so that is why I cycle it so he can catch it one of those times.
 
Oh yeah I forgot to say that the bulb is rated at avg 140 microwat/cm2 at 30 cm. Is this the type of bulb that you are concerned about?
 
Jake,

I'm mainly posting all this info in responce to Wendy's use, yours is more appropriate although there are a few things that concern me. To begin with, Ferguson did say in his paper that over an extended period of time, short exposure to high UV-emitting bulbs have the potential to create big problems, even though they are exposed at for shorter periods of time. These higher radience levels are probably great for reptiles with thicker skin and who are more desert dwelling (Iguanins, Agamids, Varanids, etc.) but I am very skeptical about their general use for chameleons and the last person I'd believe about how good they are is someone trying to make money off me (especially from a group of people who probably have little to no chameleon experience). The fact that they can only be left on for short periods or burns occur and that even then it kills all the silkworms in its path to me just seems like a bad idea on a cham cage. I would just be very sure your chams are able to sufficiently get out of the radience area without significantly impeeding their cage use. For instance, I have MV bulbs on my C. parsonii enclosures but one of them meassures 7'x6'x3' and the bulb is in one of the back corners allowing for plenty of exposure if desired but also significant room to self regulate their exposure levels due to the gradient I've provided on the horizontal plane (chameleons are arboreal and like to be high, I imagin that strictly vertical UV gradients when we are looking at 4' radience distances are not greatly appealing to them and with high intensity output bulbs, I can imagin problematic).

Just my 2cents

Chris
 
Sorry, Jack, not Jake (this not being able to edit your posts for stupid little things like this anymore seems pretty pointless IMO...)

Chris
 
They are outside in natural sunlight, is that a bad thing? I thought that natural sunlight was always the best?

They were in that tank only long enough to allow me to take a few pics, and visually see them eat before moving them to a larger set up and to outside. I will make sure to either not use the starter tank next time or get a lower rated bulb for that 1-3 days.
 
Being outside should be fine as long as they can get out of the sun and into the shade. The issue I'm discussing is the forced exposure to high UV output bulbs without proper light gradients as in the tank. I simply would recommend avoiding those high UV output bulbs except in extremely large enclosures.

Chris
 
Chris Anderson said:
Being outside should be fine as long as they can get out of the sun and into the shade. The issue I'm discussing is the forced exposure to high UV output bulbs without proper light gradients as in the tank. I simply would recommend avoiding those high UV output bulbs except in extremely large enclosures.

Chris
Click to expand...
They do have good cover outside, one side of the reptariums is under a tree.

In the 3 days they were in the tank they could get UVB on one side or little to none on the other, isn't that a gradient?

The tank is 24" wide and the UVB was only on 1 side leaving the other side for the gradient and the bulb was 10" above the tallest branch and angeled so that only the front of one side had the most UVB with the center, back and entire other side of the tank avaliable to gradient the amount they wanted.

I have only really read a few of the studies so I do need to read more UVB studies:
http://russiantortoise.org/uvb.htm

It shows natural sunlight to provide on a cloudy day in SC (a little south of me) more than 10x the amount of the 5.0 bulb at 12"

And that my 10.0 bulb is better balanced for proper output of 10% UVB and 30% UVA if used within 20" of the top
http://www.bigappleherp.com/Reptile...tput_UVB_Fluorescent_Light_Series_262180.html

When I do the starter tank, how high up does the bulb need to be?

Should I have put it in the middle to give the entire tank the UVB instead of only on 1/2 for a gradient? I thought putting it only on one side and tilting it to the front provided the gradient they needed.
 
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