• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

UPS and Shpping Snakes (a chance at legitimacy)

I vote for Darin

Go for it Darin. I don't think you need anyone's permission. That would be the best thing to keep this ball rolling. Go ahead and draft a letter. Once we have that, then people can make suggestions to add or delete something.

I also agree and think it would be a good idea for all of us to provide our names, signitures, e-mail addresses to be attached to this letter. A show of solidarity!
 
Go for it man.

Anything is likely to be beter then what I come up with. So shoot away, and when your done post it up, and we can all go from there.

I figure once I get a draft letter, I will start calling on everyone in the business I can think of. I imagine some people will be leary of signing on, and I dont blame them (sometimes its better not to rock the boat). However I will try my best to get some of the bigger volume shippers to join the cause.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
Re: I vote for Darin

I also agree and think it would be a good idea for all of us to provide our names, signitures, e-mail addresses to be attached to this letter. A show of solidarity!

I too agree that traditionally this is a really good idea, but I worry that it might prevent senior UPS management from truely comprehending the potential market size.

My presumtion is that even with a lengthy campaign you probably would never even get signatures of even one percent of the people who would potentially use a live herp shipping service provided by UPS. A couple pages of names and signatures attached to a letter might be percieved as a small "grass roots" effort not worth their time. It could potentially limit them from invisioning the actual potential size of the market.

I think a better route would be to let the numbers stand on their own. Figuring out the number of annual registered classified account users on this site as well as kingsnake.com (and others that I may not be aware of) and then factoring a 75% crossover rate would probably come up with a large number that would certainly make UPS management pay attention. You could then provide them with contact info for WebSlave and JeffB to verify the numbers and further enforce the seriousness of this industry and the potential added revenue for UPS.

In the end, it will only be new additional revenue that will get them to say yes, so go as big as you can. Fudging the numbers on the high side is ok, because they will certainly only consider 60% of whatever numbers they are given (this is a standard business practice).

This is just my .02 ... I have a strong background in business development and thought I may be able to help a little. I would love to see this go through. I have some other thoughts on the subject if anyone is interested, but I don't want to wear out my welcome.

Thank you for listening

-Adam
 
Sorry about the typos, I am a true MS Word junkie and am basically crippled without the little red squiggly lines.

-Adam
 
I'm not an organizer, but I'm great at following directions. Tell me what I can do to help out, and I'll do my best.

I think Darin is an exceptionally good choice for a level headed voice to write out our proposal.

I also think 8ball has some good points about the numbers of registered users versus the number of signitures we could obtain.

Just my 2 cents. If you need photo's (I have balls and corns and a digi cam) or leg work done, let me know. I make a fine worker bee!
 
Shoot away with ideas man.

I am a bit torn on the idea of one letter, or a group of letters I think maybe one form letter, with each person sending it, and adding a bit of "personalized" info may be the route to go. Maybe one letter explaining what we as an industry would like from them, and what rules/regulations we would be willing to self impose in the process. Then everyone could add on there own contact info, estimated annual shipments (snake shipments), ect.

This woud do a couple of things. It would show our numbers, and our ability to orginize. Rather then a bunch of rag tag letters, often likely to switch from point to point, this would be a well written "form" letter each of us could send to start.

I think giving the contact info to Jeff B and Rich is a great idea, assuming of course they are willing to let us do so. If nothing else, should they want to stay out of it, we could atleast send links to their web pages, asking them to do a bit of reasearch of their own. Maybe asking them to "surf" the kingsnake classifieds would give them some insight to our size and power.

So everyone shoot away with ideas, Im all ears

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
Here are a couple of thoughts right off the top ….

- A bunch of letters is only going to confuse and distract senior management at UPS. How many do you think would actually get sent anyway? 100? 1,000? Those numbers are not significant enough. The people that can make this happen are extremely busy and don’t have the time or the interest to sort thru a pile of letters from individuals. Whether a form letter or some derivative there of, they will simply be turned off. These people care about one thing, their quarterly revenue numbers. Our ability to organize will not impress them, and a pile of letters will never get read by anyone with the ability to make this happen.

- You don’t really need “permission” to supply UPS with contact information for Rich and Jeff. They own highly visible public websites, if I can shoot them an email without permission, UPS can as well. It would be courteous to give them each a heads up, but in the end it is up to them to either help or not if UPS were to contact them. A phone call or email is about all that UPS would probably do to verify facts presented to them. It is unlikely that they will spend man hours doing their own research looking at websites. Everything must be handed to them and factual, and those facts have to be EASILY verifiable.

I think you should look at this thing as a business development relationship between the herp community and UPS. Good for our collective businesses and good for theirs. UPS has a vice president of business development (not necessarily that title, but certainly someone in that role). Business development is worked as a one to one relationship, so you will need a single person (or very small group, 3 – 4) to contact their bus dev vp.
The standard procedure for making this happen is a brief letter requesting a meeting. The letter would explain who you are and who you represent, as well as a summary of what you are proposing (your current internal contacts at UPS will help grease the wheels with this person to get you that meeting). Once the meeting is set, an 8 – 12 slide PowerPoint presentation (these people live and die by PowerPoint) explaining what the benefits to UPS are accompanied by hard numbers. You must show a significant increase to UPS’s bottom line if they are going to go for it. If you can show a 1- 2 percent increase to UPS’s gross, they will not be able to say no. Some of the things that should be highlighted in the presentation are:

- Market size (number of POTENTIAL annual shippers over the next 5 years)
- Average annual shipment size per person (in dollars, err on the high side here)
- Stats on year over year growth of the herp industry
- Safety plan (for UPS employees especially)
- Insurance (they make huge profits with insurance, this angle should be explored and stressed … talk about how the airlines do it)
- Legalities of transporting from state to state, protected species, etc (first thing their lawyers will ask)
- The fact that they will draw new customers from FedEx, Airborne, and the airlines (new customers always gets people excited)
- Acceptable packaging requirements, weather, preventing loss of animals (they will be terrified of the PETA crazies when discussing this internally)

I really think that this is an easy deal to get done if you can show a 1 – 2 percent rev increase. If not, it’s going to be tough. I have not done any financial research on UPS and don’t know where they stand against other carriers or how they are performing, but that will be important. If they are doing well and at the top of the pile it might be easier to go after the company on the bottom first (and certainly mention that you are talking to the other carriers at the meeting, tell the company that your meeting with that you’d be willing to be exclusive with them and not even talk to anyone else if it goes thru).

I have worked and closed bus dev deals with fortune 500 companies and have seen some really shaky stuff get done. With the proper presentation and good revenue increases for UPS this has a strong chance of happening, but you have to speak their language.

Wow, I think I’ve rambled on enough.

Thank you for listening again.

-Adam
 
Those are all very good ideas Adam! Darin could look at the outline of topics that you have provided and address each of those issues in his cover letter.
 
good points Adam

Do a search on this topic i had some people posting revenues on one i had started notto far back on the income that caould be made in this area by shipping companies several people had chimed in with what type of revenue & amout of volume they do on a weekly & monthl & yrly basis . it was going to be well over 1/2 a million a yr just basdon the few that did chime in and that wasnt the "BIG BREEDERS" that ship tons a months out so glad to know someone else has the same way of thinking i did lol
 
UPS earnings where 24.55 billion ending on 09/30/03 so a significant amount of potential revenue increase would have to be demonstrated to get their attention.
 
245 million is a pretty big number to shoot for. At $40.00 per package that’s around 6 million shipments per year. Probably not a number we would get close to.

The major concern here is that if the additional revenue to UPS is only 1 - 2 million per year it is really not worth it to them. Thinking like a UPS exec, I would speculate that 1 million wouldn't even cover the potential lawsuits involved with shipping snakes.

Significant revenue gains will interest them. Stealing business from competitors will interest them.

Another thing that may interest them is other revenue sources. For example, they just acquired "Mailboxes Etc" and now operate that franchise as "The UPS Store". A line of reptile specific shipping supplies available thru those stores would be another source of revenue that might get their attention.

The bottom line is that the more ways you can show that doing this deal would mean an extra 245 million a year (or as close to it as possible) the better the chances. Being creative and not limiting thought to reptile shipping alone will help. I'm certainly not saying that won't say yes for an additional 20 million a year, they very well might. But, for a 1% revenue increase, they almost can't say no.

-Adam
 
There is one aspect that I am hesitant to touch on this first draft, so I want to get some input before submitting it for the approval of you all.

What about the issue of current practices? I mean, a large number of people are already using the services of UPS for reptile shipments. The national corporate standard is "No snakes." However, I know of several local managers who have ignored this issue, and they allow shipping from their localities regardless. Now, no names would be mentioned, obviously, but I fear that any mention of what is currently transpiring might cause a crack down that could affect a LOT of our friends and their businesses. We do NOT want to be the ones that shut "BC Reptiles Plus" down!

However, I think it is a valid point to show that there are already thousands of animals being shipped each year via UPS without any threat whatsoever. Imagine how much better it would be for the company to know that A) they are charging appropriately for what it is that they are shipping (I mean, they may want to add a bit of a surcharge on these shipments to be somewhat commensurate with what Delta charges ... I'm not sure I would have a problem with them doing so, either, if it means being able to use them above board); and B) That they have all of the shippers they possible can, and not just the ones who have found a way around the rules.

So, what do you think? Leave it alone, or let them be able to see the whole picture? I appreciate all of your comments!
 
$24.55 million not $245 million

Big dollar difference lol so with a 1% goal
so if you break down shipment like this :

50 continental us states
If each state was to ship a minimum of 100 shipments a week that would be = 20,000 a month

20,000 shipments a month @ $40.00 ea would =$800,000.00
$800,000.00 x 12 months =$9,600,000.00

now feel free to double check me lol as i may be wrong on the numbers but i think there right .
 
some thing i had mentioned a while back on thissubject

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27779&perpage=5&pagenumber=1


http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27796

the first one had some replies as to the monthly amounts shipping would generate.

The second was basically some things i tossed out to maybe possibly make the option more appealing to them for them to have some sort of "standard" they would hold us to to use there service if they allowed us to use them.


As far as clueing them in on what they alreadys have shipped each day , week & month that is a touchy thing they could say hmmm well we will fix this right now and open and reject any or all packages ... or may say hmmm well there doing already so why not take advantage and capitolize on what we already do . tough call to make i guess it would depend all on the HDIC and there feelings on reptiles...
 
1% of $24.55 Billion is $245.5 million, which at a rate of $40 per box, would require an increase of 6.1375 million shipments per year for UPS. That is simply not feasable. Especially when you consider that a large percentage of the shipments being made out there are already going through UPS through honest and dishonest means.

So, I would suggest that we find another avenue of persuasion (like making it more acceptable for them to do what they are already doing, in some way) to entice them to change their policies. I know no one wants to see a surcharge on this type of shipment, but a 50% increase in shipping prices to be able to do so in an above board manner is not too high a price to pay, in my estimation.

If such a policy were adopted, the amount of shipments needed to reach that $245.5 million range would be 4.092 million shipments per year. That breaks down to about 850 shippers nation wide, averaging around 100 shipments per week. I still don't think we can get to that number, but it's a lot closer to reality than the others, I think.
 
Guys I wish it were 24.5 or even 245 million, its 24.5 billion. This is according to my stock stats from UPS and from Forbes.:(
 
again .. i apologize

Maybe i needed one more glass of coke.... i got dislexic there for a second ... sorry for my mistake .
 
Back
Top