• Responding to email notices you receive.
    **************************************************
    In short, DON'T! Email notices are to ONLY alert you of a reply to your private message or your ad on this site. Replying to the email just wastes your time as it goes NOWHERE, and probably pisses off the person you thought you replied to when they think you just ignored them. So instead of complaining to me about your messages not being replied to from this site via email, please READ that email notice that plainly states what you need to do in order to reply to who you are trying to converse with.

  • IMPORTANT! PLEASE READ!! About the Google Adsense ads being displayed

    =====================
    Posted 08/15/2025
    =====================


    Yeah, I know. They are a pain in the butt. But they pay the bills to keep my server running. Just a fact of life, I am afraid.

    Want to get rid of them? Simple. Just become a Contributor level member or above and they will be gone. -> Please click HERE."

    Is that too much for me to ask of you to keep this site running? Well, sorry about that. I too wish I could get everything for free. But alas.....

    =====================
    Addendum: 01/10/2026
    =====================


    Google Adsense ad revenue for December, 2025 was just $30 over the cost of the lease for the server running this site. So, in effect, the money providing the incentive for me to continue running this site is coming SOLELY from the paid memberships and sponsorships here. Which honestly ain't much....

UPS and Shpping Snakes (a chance at legitimacy)

I guess we all know where talking about too much money when we run out of space entering the numbers in on the calculator.
 
i agree matt lol

they need longer screens on them things ....

Its ok Darin i knew ya wasnt piling me .. ( or well atleast i hope not ) lol only time i ever seen that much moola was when .... hmmm cant say i have nevver seen that much:D
 
"outing shippers" has been a concern of mine all along, however we know they know people are shipping snakes allready.

Maybe we need to work this backwards. If we cant show enough of a gain, maybe we can show enough of a loss. By this I mean maybe we need to approach UPS with the attitude that "someone wants our business". Let them know we are negotiating the business they allready have PLUS NEW SNAKE SHIPMENTS to Fed Ex, Airborne, ect. Let them know that we as an industry would be willing to adopt a nearly uniform shipper IF WE WERE ABLE TO SHIP ALL OUR ANIMALS.

This way say we could show an increase of say 1 million a year from snake shipments, AND THE POTENTIAL LOSS OF "X" amount of dollars currently gained by shipping lizards. Lets say this amount is 1 million also (just going for an easy number).

I dont think we will EVER be able to come anywhere near 1%, however I dont think many UNTAPPED industries can pop up and require that much shipping either. Growth is growth, we just have to show it.

Mickey Hinkle
The LIzard King Reptiles
 
Mickey

The touchy side of showing a "loss of revenue" is just as bas as saying this many people already ship so why noy all of us . if there anywhere close to being on the "middle of the fence" they could very easily say well let them have that buisness as its not worth out trouble to even deal with it . Not saying that to be negitive but this is alot like riding a razor blade with a boot if you ride it the wrong way you get cut
 
I dont think we will EVER be able to come anywhere near 1%
Click to expand...

Remember, I never said this was a requirement, just a goal. If senior management turned down a new customer base that would increase revenues by 1%, they would certainly be fired by the board. When I work bus dev deals I really don't like to hear "no", so I always try and develop the deal in a way where the other side can't say no.

The loss thing won't affect them much ... even if it was 4.5 million a year, that’s only 1/50th of one percent of their annual. That loss would be offset by the money and man hours they would save inspecting/finding/and returning unauthorized snake shipments each year.

I still can't help thinking that insurance is the magic ingredient here. If we can't supply the volume needed to hit high numbers and make UPS fall over themselves to say yes, maybe we can do it with the "value" of what we're shipping. With all of the high dollar animals being sold and shipped all over, maybe there’s a different way to look at how the revenue can be generated.

-Adam
 
Depends from whos side you look at that from.

Me personally I have nothing to loose any longer by them shutting me down. I ship 90% snakes, and honestly would perfer to no longer deal with lizards at all. However I CANNOT SHIP SNAKES UPS. They open packages on my end allready.

In fact I sold myself out to UPS when in negotiations to get them to allow me to ship UPS withough sending my animals on trucks twice. I told them, fine you wont let me ship from your counter, I will not use your company. I went on to inform them that I could care less if they shut down ALL reptile shipments, as if nothing else I would have a level playing field with all the other people who currently CAN ship UPS (snakes included).

What did that email get me (I can see if I still have it if you like). I got them to bend a bit to allow me to drop off at the counter (something they were unwilling to do for me for a month prior to asking them to pull my account). That also got the ball rolling on this whole thread.

To me this says maybe we can bully them a bit. IF they were willing to bend to get me as a coustomer, I would think the potential loss of a number of customers would be a good scare tactic. If they were considering shutting down live shipments alltogether, they would NEVER have bent the "rules" to allow me to ship from the counter.

I personally vote for an all out effort to change the status quoe (sp?). As I have nothing to loose by them "shutting down herp shipments". In fact all Ive done IS LOST by them allowing others to ship while I am unable to. In one week alone I ACTUALLY, NOT POTENTIALLY, LOST OVER 2,000.00$ in snake sales due to my inablility to ship ups. That doesnt count the number of people who never even contacted me cause I CLEARLY STATED I COULD ONLY SHIP DELTA FOR SNAKES.

So again, me personally I vote lets rock the boat. That being said I am going to see what everyone else thinks is a good route to go, and will play fair if need be.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
My letter to UPS that got the ball rolling

This is the email I sent to UPS about 6 weeks ago. This is the whole thing that got this thread started.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sherry



Well at this time I have decided it would be in my best intrest to go ahead and just go with Delta as my primary shipper (even though it will cost me 70$ to ship packages, and coustomers will have to pick them up at the airport). So feel free to cancel my account as it will not be used.



If you or corprate would like to know why I am chooseing to do such, I will happily break down my reasons. If at some time in the future the policies are changed, I would love to send my business your way.



I am comfortable paying the daily pickup fee, however I am not comfortable shipping unisured animals (even if lost) and being forced to send them on a truck twice often in extreme temps. If I were able to drop them off at the hub, even with a daily account charge, that would be fine.



Next a big problem with paying for your service, and all the risks with no insurance, is I would not be able to ship harmless snakes. This is a major portion of the reptile industry and is fast growing. That means I would have to pay for your service for only half or often less then half my shipping needs. Many orders are half snakes, half lizards, ect. Now we are not talking about adult snakes, dangerous snakes, or venomous snakes. We are talking about genearlly 24" or smaller animals the size of a pencil often. If if the future UPS really wanted to "controll" the reptile shipping market (a growing market mind you) they would consider offering this service on REASONABLE snake shipments. Also as we are well aware, snakes are often shipped via UPS anyways.



Lastly I did a bit of calculations, and refigured my expected shipping needs. I honestly believe with a reliable shipper of ALL my reptiles I would easily ship 10-25 packages a week for starters, with the sky being the limits. Now you figure each package would cost me atleast 30$ ea, often 40-60$ on medium orders, and 70$ or more on larger orders. Lets say I ship 10 packages a week, 40 a month @ 40$ ea on average, thats 1600$ a mo and nearly 20,000.00 annually for less then 500 shipments. Thats got to be a great margin for any company. Especially considering I am begging to cut out one step in the process. Now if you consider there are another 200-1000 companies in my same shoes you may get an idea of the big picture involved in HARMLESS LEGAL reptile shipments.



Thanks for your time, and sorry so long winded, but I figured if I fully spelled out my needs, it couldnt hurt.



Mickey Hinkle

The Lizard King Reptiles

402-934-9906



P,S. Also 90% of the animals I have recieved recently, INCLUDEING SNAKES, have come via UPS. I hope I dont put myself in any jeopardy for saying this, but I figure its the truth, I might as well say it. Whats the worse you guys would do, stop shipping animals all together. In all honesty at this point that would help me more then hurt me, as it would level the playing field for my business, as everyone would need to ship via the airlines at that point.
 
This is the letter I got back from them. Notice all the Inter office communication they accidentally sent my way. This is what got me thinking about a letter writing campaign.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Mickey,

Just wanted to let you know that you can ship your lizards and take them to the customer counter per Brad at UPS. However, UPS will not take any snakes. Per his statement below you can take your lizards to UPS Customer Counter on 25th and Gomes Ave.

Hope this helps,

Happy Thanksgiving,

Sherry Wattier





-----Original Message-----
From: Cook Brad (nrd1bxc)
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 7:45 AM
To: WATTIER SHERRY (NPL1SSW)
Subject: RE: concerned customer on Reptile shipping



Sherry,

I may be misreading the letter below, but I have the impression that if we do not take snakes they do not want to use our service. I have no problem with them establishing an account (Occasional Air) with us and using the customer counter for drop off. But we will only take the lizards, not the snakes.

Brad



-----Original Message-----
From: WATTIER SHERRY (NPL1SSW)
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 7:13 PM
To: Cook Brad (nrd1bxc)
Subject: RE: concerned customer on Reptile shipping

How about being able to drop off his lizards near closing time at customer counter, so they are not left in the truck longer then they should be??

Sherry





-----Original Message-----
From: Cook Brad (nrd1bxc)
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 2:58 PM
To: WATTIER SHERRY (NPL1SSW)
Cc: Berenguer Stephanie (NZZ1SAB)
Subject: RE: concerned customer on Reptile shipping



Sherry,

No, there is nothing we can do for this customer. We will not take snakes (knowingly). I have debated this issue with several people at Corporate to try and get support to accept non-venomous snakes, but have not been successful yet.

Brad



-----Original Message-----
From: Berenguer Stephanie (NZZ1SAB)
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 10:01 AM
To: Cook Brad (nrd1bxc)
Subject: FW: concerned customer on Reptile shipping

Brad,

I am forwarding this to you as you might find interest reading this shipper's comments.

I don't know how (and if) you want to handle this.



Stephanie.

-----Original Message-----
From: WATTIER SHERRY (NPL1SSW)
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 9:46 AM
To: Berenguer Stephanie (NZZ1SAB)
Cc: KNADLE GREG (dak2gxk)
Subject: FW: concerned customer on Reptile shipping

Stephanie,

I am forwarding a letter from a customer that has some concerns regarding shipping reptiles. Please read below. Is there anything we can do for this customer.

Thanks,

Sherry Wattier

Area Sales Representative

402-738-6584 x2560







-----Original Message-----
From: The Lizard King Reptiles [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:15 PM
To: WATTIER SHERRY (NPL1SSW)
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re:



Sherry



Well at this time I have decided it would be in my best intrest to go ahead and just go with Delta as my primary shipper (even though it will cost me 70$ to ship packages, and coustomers will have to pick them up at the airport). So feel free to cancel my account as it will not be used.



If you or corprate would like to know why I am chooseing to do such, I will happily break down my reasons. If at some time in the future the policies are changed, I would love to send my business your way.



I am comfortable paying the daily pickup fee, however I am not comfortable shipping unisured animals (even if lost) and being forced to send them on a truck twice often in extreme temps. If I were able to drop them off at the hub, even with a daily account charge, that would be fine.



Next a big problem with paying for your service, and all the risks with no insurance, is I would not be able to ship harmless snakes. This is a major portion of the reptile industry and is fast growing. That means I would have to pay for your service for only half or often less then half my shipping needs. Many orders are half snakes, half lizards, ect. Now we are not talking about adult snakes, dangerous snakes, or venomous snakes. We are talking about genearlly 24" or smaller animals the size of a pencil often. If if the future UPS really wanted to "controll" the reptile shipping market (a growing market mind you) they would consider offering this service on REASONABLE snake shipments. Also as we are well aware, snakes are often shipped via UPS anyways.



Lastly I did a bit of calculations, and refigured my expected shipping needs. I honestly believe with a reliable shipper of ALL my reptiles I would easily ship 10-25 packages a week for starters, with the sky being the limits. Now you figure each package would cost me atleast 30$ ea, often 40-60$ on medium orders, and 70$ or more on larger orders. Lets say I ship 10 packages a week, 40 a month @ 40$ ea on average, thats 1600$ a mo and nearly 20,000.00 annually for less then 500 shipments. Thats got to be a great margin for any company. Especially considering I am begging to cut out one step in the process. Now if you consider there are another 200-1000 companies in my same shoes you may get an idea of the big picture involved in HARMLESS LEGAL reptile shipments.



Thanks for your time, and sorry so long winded, but I figured if I fully spelled out my needs, it couldnt hurt.



Mickey Hinkle

The Lizard King Reptiles

402-934-9906



P,S. Also 90% of the animals I have recieved recently, INCLUDEING SNAKES, have come via UPS. I hope I dont put myself in any jeopardy for saying this, but I figure its the truth, I might as well say it. Whats the worse you guys would do, stop shipping animals all together. In all honesty at this point that would help me more then hurt me, as it would level the playing field for my business, as everyone would need to ship via the airlines at that point.

----- Original Message -----

From: WATTIER SHERRY (NPL1SSW)

To: The Lizard King Reptiles

Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 12:40 PM





Hi Mickey,

Yes, you can begin shipping.However, corporate state that you do have to have a daily p/u account. Unless you leave them for pickup at you place of work.

I tried to call but no answer. I forgot my cell phone so I thought email would get to you.

Tx

Sherry Wattier

UPS Area Representative
 
Mickey,

Please understand that what you were able to accomplish while commendable is merely some flexibility at your local level. Those communications I would guess are indirectly between your sales rep and her district manager. Brad Cook is most certainly a field guy (probably a DM) as he refers to "talking to corporate".

Corporate policy is a different game altogether. There is no doubt that they will do a cost benefit anaylsis as this is standard with any business decision. Unless that anaylsis shows a substantial potential game, they will shoot it down.

In many corporate structures like UPSs', the local people always fight tooth and nail to keep every single customer and gain as many new ones as they can. They make their bonuses by meeting their sales goals and they really don't care where the dollars come from. At the corporate level, they are always asking "is it worth it?" ... "Is it worth it to allow the shipping of snakes and all of the potential liabilities that may go with it for a few extra million in revenue?" ... "Is it worth it to loose all of the reptile shipments we do each year for a few additional million in revenue?" ... These are the only two of the hunderds of questions the corporate guys will ask. In my experience, a signifigant increase to gross revenue usually makes anything "worth it".

-Adam
 
Any New Updates?

Darin,

Have you had a chance to draft a letter yet? I was hoping that this thread would not die. It seems as though as soon as we (herpers) start discussing this topic and start making some headway........it all falls by the wayside.
 
I know the feeling. However some of the statements about the amount of business we need to throw there way in order to be taken seriously likely has spooked a few of us.

If its true we need to show a 1% increase to be taken seriously, then I dont see it happening. However I am down to sign on to any draft letter we can come up with. I would send Brad a letter myself, but mine has allready been forwarded to him anyways. If nothing else maybe everyone else should email him on their own and let him know your feelings on the issue. He obviously claims to be open to the idea, and maybe if enough people email him, he may keep the idea floating on coperates end, cant hurt.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
I think before we all start to e-mail this guy we should wait to see what kind of letter Darin drafts, if he is still open to that idea.

After it has been posted, anyone that may have a good suggestion to add or delete something can reply and we can take it from there. I still like the idea of doing this together rather than a bunch of us e-mailing this guy letters.
 
Maybe we should wait until after the holiday. Right now all of the shipping companies have more business than they know what to do with, but come Jan/Feb.........they might be looking to fatten up those lean months a bit.

Just a thought.
 
Sorry for not keeping you all updated! I have been working on the first draft, and I contacted some of the larger producers among us to get their input. For the most part, it has been very helpful, I think.

I'll do my best to get the first draft before you all sometime this weekend. Then, we can disect it and manipulate it at will!

Thanks for your patience, everyone!

:bluegrab:
 
Sounds good. If you dont mind me asking who all did you contact. You can email me privately if you like. I figure if you need me to I would contact a few other people I work with closely.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
402-934-9906
 
Mickey,

Some of the people with whom I spoke would not like me to release their names to anyone for any reason. Sorry, but I really cannot go into more deeply than that.

However, feel free to contact whomever you want about this. The more input we have, the better our presentation will be, and that is what we all want.
 
I agree with Cheryl, let's wait until after the Holidays. That way there is no rush on the first draft of the letter. Also, I don't know about you guys, but I'm kind of in slow motion until after New Years and I believe a lot of other people and major corporations are as well.
 
Back
Top