Tom McKenna
S & H Exotics
Brian I just told them it was a small business from my home. And hey never asked anything else
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Posted 08/15/2025
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Addendum: 01/10/2026
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UPS, FedEx, Airborne Express, USPS - bad guys.
- Thread starter WebSlave
- Start date
I called the sales manager for my area this morning and he sounded very positive and willing to help with this effort. He told me that his cousin bred reptiles and exotic birds as well. He told me that he has considered buying a ball python at one point so he is willing to help in this effort.
He is calling James Brown and the live animal desk to see what needs to be done on his end and the processes that have to be completed to make this happen. I am supposed to hear from him sometime early next week about where we stand at this point and the next step in this process.
To be continued...............
Is there others this far in the process of obtaining a waiver?
He is calling James Brown and the live animal desk to see what needs to be done on his end and the processes that have to be completed to make this happen. I am supposed to hear from him sometime early next week about where we stand at this point and the next step in this process.
To be continued...............
Is there others this far in the process of obtaining a waiver?
I just got off the phone with a FedEx sales rep. He said he has been with FedEx for four years and has never had this issue come up and doesn't have a clue about how to go about getting the OK for live reptile shipments.
But he is going to check into it. I went into a lot of detail about what this could mean, business-wise for FedEx and that definitely perked his ears up. He sounded VERY interested in what we are offering FedEx nationwide. BTW, my mentioning that this was a very hot thread on a message board with nearly 8,000 registered members in this industry REALLY caught his attention. He asked several questions about just this aspect of this issue in particular. I told him if this all works out, I would be perfectly willing to run a free banner ad on this site touting FedEx as the Reptile Industry Friendly Shipping Company.
He said that if this can get all straightened away, he would have no problems whatsoever being a front line contact point in FedEx for everyone to contact for this process.
Hopefully I'll know more on Monday.
Anyone now thinking they are safe and secure shipping with Airborne Express and UPS might want to think real hard about jumping on the bandwagon. I think maybe even UPS and Airborne Express catching wind of FedEx picking up a LOT of new business and they losing that business could cause them to reassess their positions on this issue as well.
But he is going to check into it. I went into a lot of detail about what this could mean, business-wise for FedEx and that definitely perked his ears up. He sounded VERY interested in what we are offering FedEx nationwide. BTW, my mentioning that this was a very hot thread on a message board with nearly 8,000 registered members in this industry REALLY caught his attention. He asked several questions about just this aspect of this issue in particular. I told him if this all works out, I would be perfectly willing to run a free banner ad on this site touting FedEx as the Reptile Industry Friendly Shipping Company.
He said that if this can get all straightened away, he would have no problems whatsoever being a front line contact point in FedEx for everyone to contact for this process.
Hopefully I'll know more on Monday.
Anyone now thinking they are safe and secure shipping with Airborne Express and UPS might want to think real hard about jumping on the bandwagon. I think maybe even UPS and Airborne Express catching wind of FedEx picking up a LOT of new business and they losing that business could cause them to reassess their positions on this issue as well.
Mickey_TLK
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Great work Rich
You know, the banner idea is briliant. Hopefully the guy will take the time to visit this site, and see the responce to this thread in particular.
This has me thinking a bit. I agree that were UPS or Airborne to realize that they were about to loose a whole market share, they may change their tune towards animal shipments. I think if we get this up and running with Fed Ex, we should at that time pool up invoices, and send them to UPS. Maybe after a month or two of shipping via Fed Ex, we could have one person be sent a ton of invoices (address blacked out would be fine I assume). Then that person could take them to His or Her UPS or Airborne sales rep, and SHOW THEM THE BUSINESS THEY HAVE LOST.
This may open the door to free competition for our business, rather then us begging to be served.
Mickey Hinkle
The LIzard King Reptiles
You know, the banner idea is briliant. Hopefully the guy will take the time to visit this site, and see the responce to this thread in particular.
This has me thinking a bit. I agree that were UPS or Airborne to realize that they were about to loose a whole market share, they may change their tune towards animal shipments. I think if we get this up and running with Fed Ex, we should at that time pool up invoices, and send them to UPS. Maybe after a month or two of shipping via Fed Ex, we could have one person be sent a ton of invoices (address blacked out would be fine I assume). Then that person could take them to His or Her UPS or Airborne sales rep, and SHOW THEM THE BUSINESS THEY HAVE LOST.
This may open the door to free competition for our business, rather then us begging to be served.
Mickey Hinkle
The LIzard King Reptiles
Mickey_TLK
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Another quick idea
Maybe if we are able to get the fed ex guy to be the "end of the line guy" for all of us to deal with, we would also be able to work out an industry watch dog group to work for them.
For example, if they were open to a banner idea, lest offer to take it one step further. We could offer to use this site as a policeing tool for shipping issues that would concern fed ex.
For example if someone is known to be illegally shipping hots we could inform them of such activities (not one big on narcing, but it may be time we police ourselves).
Or if a shipper is shown to be shipping in an improper fashion (i.e. no heat or cold packs, shipping on too cool of days, no insulation, ect)
Again Im not sure what if anything this would accomplish, just a idea I figured I would toss out. Its best if we cover every angle, even if we toss out more ideas then we use. By offering this "service" to a shipper, we may help them ward off any concerns they would have of improper shipments.
Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
Maybe if we are able to get the fed ex guy to be the "end of the line guy" for all of us to deal with, we would also be able to work out an industry watch dog group to work for them.
For example, if they were open to a banner idea, lest offer to take it one step further. We could offer to use this site as a policeing tool for shipping issues that would concern fed ex.
For example if someone is known to be illegally shipping hots we could inform them of such activities (not one big on narcing, but it may be time we police ourselves).
Or if a shipper is shown to be shipping in an improper fashion (i.e. no heat or cold packs, shipping on too cool of days, no insulation, ect)
Again Im not sure what if anything this would accomplish, just a idea I figured I would toss out. Its best if we cover every angle, even if we toss out more ideas then we use. By offering this "service" to a shipper, we may help them ward off any concerns they would have of improper shipments.
Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
If we tell them that someone is shipping hots, they may decide that the waivers are not worth the risk of someone getting bit by one and pull out on everyones waiver.
I really don't think they as a buisness will care if someone forgets a heat pack here and there. That also opens the door for someone to call and "report" someone that they don't like or had a bad deal with.
I really don't think they as a buisness will care if someone forgets a heat pack here and there. That also opens the door for someone to call and "report" someone that they don't like or had a bad deal with.
Brian Oakley
New member
Hell, I am still waiting for the Acct. Rep. in my area to call back. he/she was supposed to call today, I suppose it is safe to say that I will not hear anyting until Monday or so.
I agree with Mickey. I think we, as a WHOLE, will receive allot more cedibility if we police ourseoves. Like he said, and I agree, I am not a narc, but you know something, it is just a few bad apples that make the whiole bunch go bad!
Am I willing to lose because some dumba$$ does things the wrong way? I am not just talking shipping either, there are allot of issues that come to mind about why we get bad wraps.
Not to mention all the stories you hear about snakes getting lose. That shows that we (although I disagree, but can;t change the publics mind) that we are careless and irresponsible. How these stories make it to the news blows me away.
With that said, have I ever had a snake get out? SURE! But how one is found in the streets, neighbors yard, local pond, etc. is beyond me. I was just reading today, on one of tghese sites, where a Burm was hit by a car and lived!!!! Apparently the owner let it lose and live in the garage. Now THAT is smart!
If I run acorss the story again, I will post the link if Webslave does not mind.
I agree with Mickey. I think we, as a WHOLE, will receive allot more cedibility if we police ourseoves. Like he said, and I agree, I am not a narc, but you know something, it is just a few bad apples that make the whiole bunch go bad!
Am I willing to lose because some dumba$$ does things the wrong way? I am not just talking shipping either, there are allot of issues that come to mind about why we get bad wraps.
Not to mention all the stories you hear about snakes getting lose. That shows that we (although I disagree, but can;t change the publics mind) that we are careless and irresponsible. How these stories make it to the news blows me away.
With that said, have I ever had a snake get out? SURE! But how one is found in the streets, neighbors yard, local pond, etc. is beyond me. I was just reading today, on one of tghese sites, where a Burm was hit by a car and lived!!!! Apparently the owner let it lose and live in the garage. Now THAT is smart!
If I run acorss the story again, I will post the link if Webslave does not mind.
Tom McKenna
S & H Exotics
That is just nuts hell he may walk in garage and Burm think he is food......GOODBYE HUMAN
Brian Oakley
New member
Here is the link, I found it.
You will have to read down a couple posts to where he explains the garage part OR you can take my word on it. Does not say much about it,just states that it was housed in the garage. It was hit when the family pulled in their garage. That makes it even sillier. You house a snake in a garage and still use it to park your car?!?!?!
People are just idiots, sorry.
http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/to...ts+car.++And+LIVES.&Forum_Title=Picture+Forum
You will have to read down a couple posts to where he explains the garage part OR you can take my word on it. Does not say much about it,just states that it was housed in the garage. It was hit when the family pulled in their garage. That makes it even sillier. You house a snake in a garage and still use it to park your car?!?!?!
People are just idiots, sorry.
http://www.bobclark.com/bcforums/to...ts+car.++And+LIVES.&Forum_Title=Picture+Forum
Quote by Evan Stahl:
Fair enough, Evan. I am sure a lot of other people who are not currently having shipping problems are thinking the same thing. Heck, I felt the same way until I had the rug pulled out from under me. I had other battles higher on the priority list to be fighting.
But on the flip side of that coin, when YOUR state legislature is causing you grief with laws that affect YOU, how about not trying to solicit help from us folks in other states who don't have to worry about YOUR problems right now? Yeah, maybe we will in the future, just as you may face shipping problems in the future, but we have other issues to worry about instead, and we don't need to rock the boat over here. Especially if it isn't an immediate necessity to us. So certainly since your problems are not now our problems, we don't have the time to help you fight your battles either.
I do hope you see what I am driving at here, Evan. Just as I hope a lot of other people understand as well.
Fair enough, Evan. I am sure a lot of other people who are not currently having shipping problems are thinking the same thing. Heck, I felt the same way until I had the rug pulled out from under me. I had other battles higher on the priority list to be fighting.
But on the flip side of that coin, when YOUR state legislature is causing you grief with laws that affect YOU, how about not trying to solicit help from us folks in other states who don't have to worry about YOUR problems right now? Yeah, maybe we will in the future, just as you may face shipping problems in the future, but we have other issues to worry about instead, and we don't need to rock the boat over here. Especially if it isn't an immediate necessity to us. So certainly since your problems are not now our problems, we don't have the time to help you fight your battles either.
I do hope you see what I am driving at here, Evan. Just as I hope a lot of other people understand as well.
Suncoast Herpetological
Lurking in the Shadows
Just wanted to slip an update in. I spoke with my local sales rep this afternoon and I am going to say that i am now cautiosly optomistic that this is going to be a smooth procedure. I encourage everyone out there that is concerned about this to start the process themselves. We may have actually found a reptile friendly shipper.
Brian Oakley
New member
I received a phone call from the Nat'l sales Dept. I spoke with an Emily and she sounded like she was well aware of such wavers. She said I need to call The "Package Test Lab" at 800-633-7019.
I would then send them a sample box that would be forwarded to the Legal Dept. to approve my packaging (I am assuming that is where James Brown comes in) and I would then get a response form them and need to fax it soemwhere else to finalize the process. I know this sounds rather vague right now, but I will post more step by step descriptions of what I have to do just like I have been, as it happens.
I would then send them a sample box that would be forwarded to the Legal Dept. to approve my packaging (I am assuming that is where James Brown comes in) and I would then get a response form them and need to fax it soemwhere else to finalize the process. I know this sounds rather vague right now, but I will post more step by step descriptions of what I have to do just like I have been, as it happens.
I just got off the phone with my sales rep for FedEx. I want to say "local rep" but he is in Tennessee and I am in Florida....
Anyway, here is a copy of the email he sent me:
I then called the Test Lab and the guy I talked to gave me a link to the form that is needed to be filled out and provided with the packaging sent to them for testing:
Packaging Services Application
One application needs to be provided for each type of box you will be using.
Now, I'm still hazy about what happens after this, but evidently the results (approval) are sent to the local sales rep (in my case, Bill Zindell), and I think to me as well. This approval then needs to be faxed to their legal department along with a request for a "reptile waiver". Fax number for legal is (877) 203-4996.
So, anyway, this is the process so far that I have been able to find out. I assume Brian is on the same path, as are other people as well.
BTW, Bill Zindell has offered to be a contact point for anyone needing help with this procedure. He can be reached at (800) 448-9961 x0519, which is his voice mail box. Or email him at [email protected].
Things are looking up, I do believe....
Anyway, here is a copy of the email he sent me:
I then called the Test Lab and the guy I talked to gave me a link to the form that is needed to be filled out and provided with the packaging sent to them for testing:
Packaging Services Application
One application needs to be provided for each type of box you will be using.
Now, I'm still hazy about what happens after this, but evidently the results (approval) are sent to the local sales rep (in my case, Bill Zindell), and I think to me as well. This approval then needs to be faxed to their legal department along with a request for a "reptile waiver". Fax number for legal is (877) 203-4996.
So, anyway, this is the process so far that I have been able to find out. I assume Brian is on the same path, as are other people as well.
BTW, Bill Zindell has offered to be a contact point for anyone needing help with this procedure. He can be reached at (800) 448-9961 x0519, which is his voice mail box. Or email him at [email protected].
Things are looking up, I do believe....
Mickey_TLK
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About a week ago I sent Fed ex a email regarding this issue, and have yet to hear anything. So I guess Im going to restart the process going through your folks.
This being said Im going to make sure I mention this site, thread, and you in particular Rich when I speak with them. I would also suggest anyone else who starts this process does the same. This may help them realize how organzed we can be, and help show the amount of shippers this process will gain them.
Thanks for the leg work everyone, hopefully this works out well for everyone involved and helps to continue to grow the hobby.
Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
This being said Im going to make sure I mention this site, thread, and you in particular Rich when I speak with them. I would also suggest anyone else who starts this process does the same. This may help them realize how organzed we can be, and help show the amount of shippers this process will gain them.
Thanks for the leg work everyone, hopefully this works out well for everyone involved and helps to continue to grow the hobby.
Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
Tom McKenna
S & H Exotics
I had to got through the same steps but all is smooth since then
My test boxes are on the way to FedEx's test lab. In talking to several people all long the line, I didn't have anyone even blink when I said I am shipping live harmless snakes. Maybe there has actually been a change in policy there at FedEx.
Also, when I was speaking to Bill Zindell, he confided in me that he has had snakes as pets himself, so he definitely has a positive perspective and outlook about this. However he did ask a favor of me. If YOU want to set up a FedEx account to ship your animals, go through regular channels first to contact the local sales rep in your area. That is the way you need to set up your account first before you can even address this issue about shipping snakes. If you get stonewalled or saddled with a sales rep that is uncooperative, then Bill is willing to help. But he doesn't want to get his office flooded with a lot of requests that he would just have to forward to the proper local sales reps anyway.
I also asked Bill specifically about the fears that someone out in Podunk, Alabama shipping snakes in an inappropriate manner causing us all to suffer the consquenses of that one person's actions. He said he sincerely doubted it would affect everyone, however the person causing such a problem could even be subjected to fines and legal sanctions for such an indiscretion.
To all of you who are using UPS and Airborne without a written contract specifically allowing you to ship snakes through them, I STRONGLY suggest you get on the FedEx bandwagon. If those other companies see a sudden drop in their business, just maybe the pencil pushers will start asking why and people will take notice. They need to see a loss in current business, not just a potential gain in future business to see what sort of numbers are at stake.
I will probably mention this last paragraph many more times in the future, in the hopes that it will sink in to everyone. If you are shipping via UPS or Airborne Express without their full knowledge (corporate, not just the local office), you are living on borrowed time. I suggest you start doing something about this NOW. NOW while you can do this at your leisure.
Also, when I was speaking to Bill Zindell, he confided in me that he has had snakes as pets himself, so he definitely has a positive perspective and outlook about this. However he did ask a favor of me. If YOU want to set up a FedEx account to ship your animals, go through regular channels first to contact the local sales rep in your area. That is the way you need to set up your account first before you can even address this issue about shipping snakes. If you get stonewalled or saddled with a sales rep that is uncooperative, then Bill is willing to help. But he doesn't want to get his office flooded with a lot of requests that he would just have to forward to the proper local sales reps anyway.
I also asked Bill specifically about the fears that someone out in Podunk, Alabama shipping snakes in an inappropriate manner causing us all to suffer the consquenses of that one person's actions. He said he sincerely doubted it would affect everyone, however the person causing such a problem could even be subjected to fines and legal sanctions for such an indiscretion.
To all of you who are using UPS and Airborne without a written contract specifically allowing you to ship snakes through them, I STRONGLY suggest you get on the FedEx bandwagon. If those other companies see a sudden drop in their business, just maybe the pencil pushers will start asking why and people will take notice. They need to see a loss in current business, not just a potential gain in future business to see what sort of numbers are at stake.
I will probably mention this last paragraph many more times in the future, in the hopes that it will sink in to everyone. If you are shipping via UPS or Airborne Express without their full knowledge (corporate, not just the local office), you are living on borrowed time. I suggest you start doing something about this NOW. NOW while you can do this at your leisure.
Tom McKenna
S & H Exotics
I told you all it could be done =) And as WebSlave said UPS & Airborne better jump on to FEDEX. FEDEX all the way
Tom,
Yes, it was the posts made by yourself and Dan Wedeking that gave me encouragement that we would have a way out of this box we are in without having to resort to the courts for relief.
Although I have heard from Bill Zindell that he has gotten a lot of emails about this issue, still I am surprised that this thread is not getting more attention than I believe it deserves because of the important implications it has for our entire industry. Perhaps far too many people are complacent with the status quo and willing to support those other shipping companies who are not really supporting us. Personally, I would feel much more comfortable if we had all of them ready and willing to accept snakes in shipments knowingly, giving us all more options, but until that happens, I believe that the only power we have is in numbers by voting with our business as a group.
Or maybe just the numbers of people actually interested in shipping snakes is much lower than realize. Maybe I am just suffering from a severe case of tunnel vision with this issue.
Or, perhaps infighting and indifference is more the rule than the exception in this business, so we will all be forever just a loosely connected group of renegades who can be brushed off at will by whatever businesses or political groups have an inclination to do so.
Oh well......
Yes, it was the posts made by yourself and Dan Wedeking that gave me encouragement that we would have a way out of this box we are in without having to resort to the courts for relief.
Although I have heard from Bill Zindell that he has gotten a lot of emails about this issue, still I am surprised that this thread is not getting more attention than I believe it deserves because of the important implications it has for our entire industry. Perhaps far too many people are complacent with the status quo and willing to support those other shipping companies who are not really supporting us. Personally, I would feel much more comfortable if we had all of them ready and willing to accept snakes in shipments knowingly, giving us all more options, but until that happens, I believe that the only power we have is in numbers by voting with our business as a group.
Or maybe just the numbers of people actually interested in shipping snakes is much lower than realize. Maybe I am just suffering from a severe case of tunnel vision with this issue.
Or, perhaps infighting and indifference is more the rule than the exception in this business, so we will all be forever just a loosely connected group of renegades who can be brushed off at will by whatever businesses or political groups have an inclination to do so.
Oh well......
dwedeking
Member
Or it's winter time (few shipments) and human nature is to wait until the box is sitting by the door to go to the shipper until we think about lining up our shipping options.
JasonDescamps
New member
I for one appreciate all the work that everyone has done in posting their experiences here. I opened my account today and am hopin gto hear from my local rep within the next few days. While I don't ship shankes I will be more than happy to have another viable shipping option when (not if) UPS decides they don't want to ship reptiles anymore. Maybe once someone has completed all the steps a final, instructional post could be made to help guide people through the steps involved. Thanks again.