UPS, FedEx, Airborne Express, USPS - bad guys.

[WebSlave]

Or it's winter time (few shipments) and human nature is to wait until the box is sitting by the door to go to the shipper until we think about lining up our shipping options.

True.....


If UPS had pulled this stunt on me in August, I would have had a stroke.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Man I keep typing and erasing this, so screw it here goes.

I TOLD YOU SO. I TOLD YOU ALL>>>>>>LOL

Sorry I dont mean to be that guy, but Ive felt like the loan nut screaming in the theater about this issue for years. I hate to say it but Im almost happy its starting to happen everywhere, maybe now the field will be level for all. Not to mention maybe now people will take this seriously.

I truely do hope one of two things happen, and slam away if you dont agree.

1 I hope fed ex accepts snake shipments openly, with accounts, from all reputable dealers/breeders. I also would like to see the other carries soon after adopt that same policy.

2 if option one didnt happen, I hope they SHUT EVERYONE DOWN that doesnt ship delta. I hate to say it but it would be better for someone like myself to have the field level then to have to compete with shipping cost you cannot provide. I MAY be able to still ship lizards ups (havent tried in weeks, been below zero) but I know for a fact the only way I can ship snakes out of my city is via Delta. This puts me at a competitive disadvantage against anyone else who can ship via over the counter services (fed ex, ups, airborne).

Im well aware it would hurt the industry in many ways if we were all forced to ship via delta, but then again Im allready damaged beyond repair till somethings done about shipping in my neck of the woods, and it seems its finally spreading to yours.

I agree Rich you would have had a stroke had this happened at a different time, however I would argue that no better person for this to happen to then you. I mean that in the nicest way possible. You handle yourself very well, and your a fighter. That makes you willing to stand up for what you think is rright. You also have the support of everyone on this site,and that could be just enough power to get someone, anyone, to listen at one of theese companies. Hopefully Fed ex is, we will see.

Mickey HInkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

 

[WebSlave]

Mickey,

I sincerely hope most people understood in my opening message to this thread when I said some eggs may need to be broken.

Many may recall that I started the BOI because someone got me angry. Anger seems to be an effective motivator with me, it appears.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Trust me, I knew full well what this would take, or could take from us. You know me, and we have spoken on this issue likely every time since we met years ago. I know what can happen when you are the "odd man out" when it comes to shipping, and it does suck.

I noticed in the "Chris Steele" post he mentioned being seached at UPS, and that they had reasons to be "suspicious" of his package. That to me says they are getting more serous EVERYWHERE about not accepting live shipments. The new signs, more searces everywhere, its only a matter of time before UPS says no more, and it seems that time is near.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

 

[The BoidSmith]

Webslave,

Although I did not post in this thread I already contacted Fed Ex last week. I'm planning on opening an account with them. Thanks for the useful info!

Regards.

 

[Randy T.]

I will open a fed ex account as well, and stop using UPS.. I guess if the Fed Ex local branch tells me to bugger off I will stick with Delta then..oh well.. we will see...

 

[Mickey_TLK]

You know another thing that I find interesting, is when UPS last tried to refuse my lizard shipment (about a month ago) even with my letter of permission, the local guy mentioned something odd. He said "they are no longer accepting live shipments due to loss claims".

Now we all know full well UPS DOES NOT COVER LOSSES OF ANY KIND. Heck I know if they loose a package, I cant even get a refund for the cost of shipping, BECAUSE ITS A LIVE ANIMAL.

That leads me to wonder what pressure UPS is under to force this recent stance. Is it governmental (due to stories like the gator in postal mail, or lawyer sending the dead copperhead), is it from people like PETA causing problems with the lawyers, or is it OUR COUSTOMERS just being a pain to deal with for live shipments.

Think about it, say every live box that is sent out UPS recieves a call on to track down, and hears "its a live animal, I have to find it". We have all done it. Now each call takes time for them to deal with, and anyone who ships UPS knows the last thing they seem to have is TIME. So UPS decides its more cost effective to discontinue service to live shipments, then to deal with all the interuptions in the flow of business.

I just find it odd that UPS seems to not only not be open to snake shipments, but seems to be willing to loose business share on ALL LIVE SHIPMENTS. Doesnt anyone else find that odd?

Or maybe its us pushing for them to accept snakes, that made them realize they really dont know what they are shipping, and that scared them. Who knows.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

 

[Mickey_TLK]

By time spent talking with us, I mean the people who go soo far (and Ive done it, so Im sure MANY OTHERS HAVE ALSO) as to track down the local number to ups.

Im well aware when you just "track" a package its automaited, but we all know there are ways to speak with a "human" it just takes patience.

Mickey Hinkle
The LIzard King Reptiles

 

[The BoidSmith]

Now we all know full well UPS DOES NOT COVER LOSSES OF ANY KIND. Heck I know if they loose a package, I cant even get a refund for the cost of shipping, BECAUSE ITS A LIVE ANIMAL.

Aren't all packages send through UPS automatically insured for $100? Anything above that you have to buy. At least that's what they tell me locally. Of course this it's just in the event the package gets lost or badly damaged.

 

[dwedeking]

I really think there was a focus at UPS for this year towards targeting the larger companies. Which removes just about everyone in this industry because in the "Big Picture" we are a small niche market.

Your "claims" explanation was probably made up on the spot by your local rep to provide you with closure on the issue that would not entail him performing any more work.

Fedex just stepped up to grap that smaller company market and part of that was capturing the live reptile shipment game. According to an article in Pet Industry News last year the reptile/amphibian market was the only pet industry sector to grow in the previous three years. Reptiles will be an expanding market as it hits the more main stream public.

With all that's been said about the shipping companies, I would not put your entire trust in any of them. I am hoping that Fedex grabbing up all these reptile accounts will turn heads at UPS. I'll keep accounts with all the major shippers just to make sure there isn't an "emergency" like Rich's situation down the road.

 

[dwedeking]

I've had UPS cover the shipping cost of a package that was not delivered overnight (lizard shipment).

I also had a situation recently (which spurred the change to Fedex) in which a UPS employee opened a package and took a bearded dragon. We received coverage for that item ($75.00) and within a matter of hours from reporting it, which tells me they new exactly what happened.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Well it was my understanding that I am shipping with ZERO protection when sending ups.

Personally I havent had a problem with their service that needed me to file a claim, so Im not sure. But I guarantee you this, say you send a box and its delayed 3 days, and all the animals are dead, the animals will not be covered. They may be willing to work with you on shipping, but that would be it. No matter the first 100$ is covered or not. The minute you say the words "live animal" your coverage has just ended.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles


And in your case Daniel, I would think that is the exerption not the rule. They must have been 100% sure the employee took the animal.

 

[dwedeking]

They must have been 100% sure the employee took the animal.

I agree as we received a call back within a couple of hours with a claim authorization number. Mostly the claims we filed with them were for delayed service.

Claims for dry good damage are a pain to get through as well, and animal death claims were waived when signing the waiver (as they are with Fedex). In talking with my box company rep, UPS goes out of their way to dodge damage claims.

 

[The BoidSmith]

No matter the first 100$ is covered or not. The minute you say the words "live animal" your coverage has just ended.

Well I understand that you are not entitled to claim the value of the animal, but according to the UPS guys in town if a package is lost in transit they will reimburse you $100. There is a fee to pay for in excess of those first $100. Again it is only for lost or damaged packages.

Regards.

 

[KathyLove]

I have been following this thread with a mixture of optimism and anxiety.

Back when I was part of Glades Herp, we got permission from Airborne in the early '90s to ship harmless reptiles with them. Soon we were totally dependent on them, only using Delta for hots. I guess it went so well that they allowed A LOT of people to use their service. As you might guess, some less than professional shippers started allowing animals to get loose in the Airborne warehouse, making the employees very unhappy. One day, our Airborne driver picked up our shipments, then returned 5 minutes later, saying she was told Airborne just banned live animals. That is how much notice we got!! We really scrambled for a couple of weeks. Eventually, we sent a test package to the president of the company and go re-instated. I did the same thing after leaving Glades, and now have my own letter from the president. But of course I know it can be rescinded at any time.

The reason for the long explanation is this: up to this point, the carriers have been very selective in allowing use of their services and it has worked for me so far. I am concerned that once it is opened up, more incidents will result, possibly getting all of us kicked out. I know this was addressed (by Rich I think), saying that only the culprits will be punished. I think it is very important that ALL of us ask FedEx to continue to ask every single new customer to send the test box (they may drop that requirement once they start accepting LOTS of herp shipments). And we should ask them to formally include some reasonable but stiff penalty for improper packing right into the contracts with any of us. If those regulations are in print, FedEx will be more likely to follow them instead of just saying it doesn't work and give up.

Another point brought up is the "humaniac" issue (PETA, etc). I think this method of shipping is sliding under their radar right now because it isn't officially allowed. Once it is official and used often, they may become aware of us and try to pressure FedEx not to do it. FedEx will have to decide whether our business is worth it. That is another reason to keep it on a "one-at-a-time" basis and with formal instructions, penalties, etc. Rich may be a good person to kind of (at least informally) represent reptile shippers with FedEx since he ships a fair amount of volume and has a site that is offering them free advertising. We should all think about and discuss possible pitfalls and solutions to suggest BEFORE we give up other shipping methods and BEFORE the inevitable mistakes, escapes, etc. happen.

Sorry for the long post. I don't post often, but guess I make up for it when I do!!

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Kathy

I agree 100% with what your saying.

I would not suggest that anyone gives up any shipping option that is currently working for them.

I am lucky that I am verified Delta, and if need be I will conduct all of my business in this manner. However I would be lying to myself and everyone else if I didnt wish I were able to ship via other methods. Dont get me wrong I can ship ups ( I believe) and as far as I am aware I can also still ship airborne (but perfer not to due to billing issues). As for Fed Ex I never used them as I was aware they would not accept labled live packages. And to me this is a no go. I will not personally ship if I cannot properly lable my shipment. Its not worth it to push for trouble for the animal, or with any agencies that may frown upon such shipments. Sadly I am well aware that others are more then willing to ship unlabled, or worse illegal packages, and it does tend to ruin it for everyone.

On the other hand I would argue that by doing as you said, and insisting upon approval for ALL herp shippers, Fed Ex or any other shipper would do themselves a great favor. I would also suggest if they do allow us to ship, that it would also be wise on their part to inform their local offices such shipments would occur, and will be acceptable, with a contract. Nothing is worse then when half the company believes the other half does not allow the shipments, we all know the drill.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

 

[WebSlave]

One step at a time.

If not for FedEx at this moment, none of us would have a legal, company policy endorsed manner to ship live harmless snakes via a door-to-door carrier. So I am suggesting that even if you do have another carrier that you are comfortable with your arrangement with, that you get on board with FedEx. Because sooner of later, we are going to have to go to UPS and Airborne and tell them they need to crap or get off of the pot (excuse my French, please). Meaning, either they are going to have to accept ALL of us above board and out in the open, or NONE of us, even in those instances where packages are being purposely mislabeled or local offices are giving preferential treatment to one shipper, whereas this option is not available from another local office.

Quite simply, after 9/11 I cannot believe that any local office of any shipper in this country does not know exactly what is in the boxes they are processing. Delta is REQUIRED to open up 10 percent of the boxes any shipper brings in at one time. If you only bring in one box, it will have it's contents inspected. If you bring in 10 boxes, one will be selected at random and opened for inspection. I strongly suspect that this applies to the other carriers as well.

I do not want to have all of my eggs in the FedEx basket either. But once we have one secure handhold climbing up this mountain, then we can reach for another.

 

[WebSlave]

I was curious about UPS's inspection policy, so heck, I just asked them:

Thank you for your inquiry. UPS Customer Counters routinely
inspect packages to ensure they are shipped according to UPS
Guideline. In the event of damage, a claim may be denied if these
guidelines are not met. Customer Counter representatives verify
the sufficient packaging of merchandise so that a filed claim
will be approved.

We also inspect for content. This is to confirm that the package
does not contain a restricted item, or items that will pose a
hazard to our system or package handlers. UPS reserves the right to inspect any package going through our system at any given point.

So yes, obviously UPS DOES know what is being shipped through their services. And if one local office is accepting snakes from someone and another refuses to do so, they may very well be legally liable for their prejudicial treatment of one company over another. This sort of activity provides a very blatant preferential treatment that results in a competitive business advantage fostered by UPS's condoning actions.

This statement clearly shows that they know exactly what is in the boxes they are accepting.

 

[Tom McKenna]

It woulld be nice to have more then one option that is for sure so as webslave said get one aboard ad after others see what $$$$$ we pay shipping they will join in

 

[ta2dshtrbug]

This sounds great. Does anyone know if this available to the "hobbyist" as well, or will we need to obtain a business liscense to be involved?
Dave Beller