UPS, FedEx, Airborne Express, USPS - bad guys.

[greenboy]

Fed Ex, UPS,And all others that apply

I'm with you 100%

I breed several species of (cyclura) Rock Iguanas. And I have run
into the same problems on a constant basis. I think you have some great ideas and i will help in any way I can. The fact is this affects all of us as herpers, breeders & buyers alike. We must realize with these huge companies the bottom line is the bottom line. They dont care about these animals we love so dearly, but! we can make then aware of the financial impact this would have on their corporations I guarantee some bigshot executive uptop
will make things move in their favor. Sad as it imay seem from a business perspective if we affect thier profit margin someone somewhere will not tolerate it.

Ready For a Fight
Greenboy

 

[Mickey_TLK]

I agree some sort of form letter may be a good idea should we start spreading the idea to other web pages.

For one, if we were able to get Jeff B to even consider something involving this, it would have to be with no faunna strings attached.

As such the group mailing you sent, most of the info would be useless when directed towards Jeff. However if we had some sort of short information package, with a form letter asking for specifics, it could be of value.

Maybe steal bits and pieces from the UPS letter drafter earlier, but it is a decent idea.

Plus if we can piece together a info packet, I bet Tony Cueto, and some of the other promoters would be willing to let us add it to info packages they allready provide at the shows, just another thought.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

 

[Brian Oakley]

GEEEZ Rich, I didn't get a copy of the email about the survey?

No biggie, just giving you a hard time.

Anyway, just another update, I sent off my package tot he Test Lab today. I am not sure when I should get a response, but like always, will keep you abreast of the goings on in this crazy ordeal.

To be continued..........

 

[JADE2U]

Oh, this is gonna be a long one...

I am located in Harrisburg, PA.
All shipping companies suck. This is the conclusion I have come to with trying to ship reptiles and amphibians for my business. We have been reduced to either selling our colubrids locally where shipping is not necessary or "sneaking" them through UPS or Airborne Express. Where to start...? Let's see... Let me start with USPS. First of all, every single package (live animals) that we sent through the post office has arrived second day mail instead of overnight. A lot of the reptiles turned up dead which essentially costs our company business, not to mention money loss. We were shipping a lot of packages through the USPS but after the major problems, we started with other shipping companies.***This is so important. I want to tell this story because I think it is of significance to this issue. I hope you all read it. I purchased a Christmas present for my husband on ebay. I had it sent to our place of business in my name. The package was supposed to arrive overnight. It took three days this time. When I picked it up at the post office, the box was opened. Let me clarify. Both sides of the box were ripped off. The top of box was completely missing (not to mention some of the things I bought were too). All that was holding the thing together was post office tape (the blue kind with the eagle on it). When I asked why it was opened and what happened this is the reply I got. "Aren't you the people that get the lizards, and ship them?" I responded yes we are. And here is the response I got back. "Well that's probably why it was opened. They saw the address and wanted to know what was in the box." So even though it wasn't alive and had nothing to do with my busines, because it had the same address, they opened the package. What would've happened to the animal inside if it was a live harmless lizard? Great huh?

UPS. By far my favorite so far (sarcastically). I posted a pic of the two tegus that they killed on fauna a couple months back. When we received the package, they were quite literally exploded. Live Harmless Lizards and fragile was written all over the box. (12 times exactly) After three months of trying to figure out what happened, we found out. I was even told that I needed to calm down because they "are only stupid lizards, yuck". They placed them on a cargo plain with frozen meat which froze them to death. They took them from this freezer to a heated cargo hold after they got off the plain which heated the dead bodies up quickly which made them explode. Previous to this, we had problems getting them to ship reptiles. They would take them once and not another time. We got no money back for the reptiles that were lost as their regulations (not in the book they send you when you sign up the account) state that they don't insure live anything. They will not ship snakes at all. And sometimes still call us after they have picked up saying that they can't ship live animals. We then have to run 15 miles out of our way to take the contract to them that we signed stating that we ship live animals.

Airborne Express, we signed up to ship live animals and after we have sent out approximately 7 packages they tell us that they do not ship any live animals. So if we would ship through airborne, we would have to sneak all shipments.

FEDEX, they told us from the start that they ship no live animals, eventhough their regulations state that they ship live HARMLESS animals.

I have been so frustrated at these shipping companies I could pull my hair out! And they don't want to fix any of their screw ups. Nice customer service!! They have actually lost another package of ours that was supposed to go to a customer with a high end bearded dragon in it yesterday. It was supposed to be delivered yesterday before 10:30 am and instead went to a completely wrong state and is still not delivered. Can you say dead lizard? Cost us another customer and another life. It's ashame. Ya know, If I would act like half the people that I have spoken with at these companies, I would be fired from my job immediately. I would be happy to help in anyway I could with any kind of feedback for these shipping companies. Please webslave feel free to contact me if you need any other info or if I can help in anyway. email me at [email protected]

I am so sorry this is so long, but I had a lot to get out.

JS

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

confused

I sincerely appreciate all of the effort of everyone's part to make strides in our ability to ship reptiles legitimately, but I am confused. (It doesn't take much to confuse me lately). I have read this entire thread and I still don't know where to begin. I will support this cause, will sign anything, jump on the band-wagon, do whatever it is I'm supposed to do... but my head is spinning.

Could someone please post the step-by-step procedure to accomplish this?

 

[Pennebaker]

OK--I spoke to DHL/airborne today....

The rep wanted to know why I switched away from Airborne and what it would take to get me back. I explained to her that we wanted a policy where we could ship live, harmless reptiles including snakes overnight service. I said that we did not need a guarantee on the animals, but we need to be able to ship freely and label packages properly according to the Lacey Act. She asked if all my volume was reptiles, I said yes. I also explained that if they were willing to accept lizards and snakes (harmless), that there were many breeders and dealers that would be interested in using their services.

She then started the process of talking to several people higher up. I was not too excited at first, because I've been through this before.... but she called me back today and said that although they did not have a policy in place now, they are now considering working one up and would get back to me soon.

If anyone wants to contact her it is "Sally Sweet" with DHL sales at 800-228-3552. I did not tell her that I would have other people contact her, but I did say that many were interested. If anyone thinks it will help the cause to give her a call, go ahead. You are welcome to tell her that you were "talking" to Dana Pennebaker at Sundial Reptile about the prospect of shipping reptiles including harmless snakes. Otherwise, I'll just let you know when she gets back to me and if it is worth your time to call her. Since it is friday afternoon, I dont think I'll hear anything until monday, but who knows.

You know, although many companies probably ship way more than we do, she was impressed with the volume of overnight shipments. Most companies in other fields do not use overnight shipping as much as us reptile people do and she thought that was a real selling point.

Dana

 

[WebSlave]

I am not saying this is competition. I have never considered you as such (not out of arrogance or indifference, but out of the fact that we cater to different types of people).

Christian - my post was directed as a reply to Chris Steele's message, not yours. And no, I was not even hinting at anything concerning competition. I think most people know I am not much interested in that sort of thing anyway. Heck, I have no problems accepting anyone's ads here and the FaunaTopSites would be a real stupid idea of me if I was that kind of person. Personally, I think the internet is big enough to hold all of us quite comfortably. And situations like this shipping issue make it quite plain that we will be far better off sticking together rather than trying to stick it TO each other.

Sorry, I did not reply to yours specifically, but yes a form letter with LOTS of signatures on it is a great idea. Anyone have some sort of online petition software we can use?

Christian, do you want to run with this ball?

 

[Pennebaker]

I also think the form letter is a good idea--makes the work easier for us so more will get sent.
If we could pass one out through email even that we could print and sign and send to UPS, Fedex, and DHL/airborne. Also if anyone had the names and addresses (or email addresses) of "key" people to mail to in each company.

Dana

 

[Mite]

I have had more problems recieving packages frm FedEx. It took over a week to get a turtle trap and when it arrived it was a flat piece of wire.
Here are some other site's recent posts regarding poor service from private shipping companies:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=350273,350569

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=350273,350273

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=304527,304527 (scroll down to 2004 archives to see post)

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=320256,320256 (scroll down to 2004 archives to see post)


http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=305085,305085 (scroll down to 2004 archives to see post)

 

[WebSlave]

Dana,

You may want to ask if Ms. Sally Sweet has an email address and send a link to the thread with the poll concerning shipping methods to her. I think that is getting enough numbers now where the shipping companies may sit up and take notice. I spent over $11K last year just on payments to Airborne Express and UPS. All of those packages were shipped via priority service. Maybe by Monday, that poll will show close to 1,000 people responding and give them some perspective of the INITIAL amount of business they could expect from us as a group.

Thanks.

 

[Pennebaker]

Good idea, I will try to get an email addy.

I forgot to give Sally Sweet's extension number...

800-228-3552 ext 8045

I am guessing that we did a little under the volume as Webslave and she mentioned that that was a "pretty high volume" when she looked at my records. I said it should be more this year.

Dana

 

[lolaophidia]

I have received numerous snakes shipped via Airborne, UPS, Fed Ex and even USPS (I didn't know the shipper was going that route till I got the confirmation number and by then it was on it's way). I'm hoping to breed my snakes in the near future and have been very concerned with the idea of not being able to ship them to buyers. This year I may only need to ship 10 or 15 hatchlings but as more of my snakes reach breeding age- I'm looking at a few hundred a year. I know I'm small time, but all the small time shippers add up. The internet market for snakes is definitely something to be reckoned with. If the shipping companies aren't impressed with the number of packages individual shippers are listing- a quick scan of a couple of classified sites might give them a better idea of the number of snakes that will be shipped by some means. I'd be happy to sign a letter to be sent to the various companies to show that there's business to be had!

Lora Vencill

 

[turtlepimp]

Right now,I ship my turtles Airborne only.I know thier policies of snakes.Not good.They are giving away alot of buisness.I'm not a huge dealer,but I did put out 122 boxes last year.
There has got to be a way to change all the shippers minds.I have ecieved turtles from other guys that had to be marked something other than what it contained.

I wonder why they want to give it away like that

Anywho Mr.Evil Love Bomber,you have my support in any action to change the Big 3's minds if they want you're money.


Andy Sury
TurtlePimp.com

 

[simplysnakes]

We agree with you and you have our full support on this issue. We ship all on an average aout 15 to 20 boxes a month. Sometimes more. We started shipping with Fed Ex but they got so expensive that we switched to Airborne Express. We have also recieved about 5 to 15 boxes a month from UPS and Airborne. We did ship through UPS about 10 times but their customer service and service in general was HORRIBLE. We had to stop labeling our boxes live harmless reptiles because of the shippers refusing to ship it. And on a personal note - I Beth Moody once worked for Airborne Express in Ocala, FL and when the box said Live harmless reptiles the carriers who hated reptiles would THROW The box against the wall trying to harm/kill the animal(s) inside. They all knew how I felt and everybox there after was given to me to deliver whether on my route or not. So think twice before marking your box LIVE HARMLESS REPTILES! Hope this info helps. Beth & Paul Moody

 

[C. Reynolds]

The email has been posted on my site. I will work on a form letter provided someone else hasn't started already. I used to handle claims for a moving company, so form letters are second nature to me. Let me know if you need it.

 

[Khaman]

I found an online petition site that I e-mailed to WebSlave but the form letter would have to be set up on it and I don’t know where to start or how to word it.

 

[C. Reynolds]

I am working on the petition now, I will post it for review before I put it online

 

[C. Reynolds]

Here it is!

Okay here it is for peer review. I will setup an online petition once we agree on the content. I took various quotes from people in this thread to be used in the petition, I hope nobody minds.

We the undersigned propose a change of policy in regards to the shipping of Live Harmless Snakes.

Be it known that it is common knowledge that such companies as Federal Express, United Parcel Service, The United States Postal Service, and Airborne Express will not knowingly accept Live Harmless Snakes as cargo for door-to-door deivery service. Be it also known that these same companies have provisions for other Live Reptiles and Amphibians. We contend that this constitutes blatant discrimination against individuals and companies involved in the legal business of breeding and selling Live Harmless Snakes, while allowing those who deal in other live reptiles and amphibians an unfair advantage.

Be it also known we are aware that some of the aforementioned shipping companies have provided for some of their clients one or more of the following:

a) a written agreement/waiver for the shipping of Live Harmless Snakes
b) are being granted a "blind eye" policy towards them using their services
c) some businesses are allowed to utilize those services as local management exception-based decisions

We shall refer to the above herein as "Exceptions". We contend that this is highly discriminatory towards any competitors of those businesses who are not allowed the obvious advantage of these "Exceptions". We further contend that these "Exceptions" are not applied equally throughout the shipping company and are often based on the volume of business a company provides to the shipping company.

Be it also known that a situation has arisen for some people not granted "Exceptions". These people are deliberately not marking their boxes with the accurate contents in order to simply survive in this business. This could constitute a violation of the Federal Lacey Act, (which requires the labeling of boxes of live animals) and subject these people to severe penalties if discovered. It is obvious that based on the above mentioned circumstances, they have no other choices available to be competitive. These policies affect thousands of people dealing in millions of dollars worth of animals every year. We believe we are blatantly being discriminated against and our businesses are suffering accordingly. As such, we believe it is time to do something about this situation instead ofjust standing by and watching our entire industry wither away.

We the undersigned propose that a review of policy be initiated to allow the shipping of Live Harmless Snakes by common carrier. The shipping of Live Harmless Snakes does not carry any more risk than the shipping of other live reptiles and amphibians. The benefits to the carrier that allows such shipping is enormous. We believe that a change in the policy would not only benefit us as shippers, but would have a huge monetary benefit to the shipping company that changes their policy to reflect the allowance of the shipping of Live Harmless Snakes. We therefore conclude that it is in the best interest of both parties that a compromise be reached, and the shipping of Live Harmless Snakes to be alolowed as a matter of policy, and not of "Exception".

Please leave your comments/suggested changes/hate mail here.

 

[WebSlave]

Actually, I think it is excellent! Very well done!

Let's all chew on this to see how it fits with how we should initially approach the shipping companies initially. Once we agree on a final form, then we have to figure on a target number of signatures before we would have the mass to get their attention when they receive it.

You know, this has got me thinking along another line. Do you think sending a similarly worded letter to our representatives in Congress would be worth the effort? Sometimes pressure from Washington on companies engaging in interstate commerce can have an effect. And NOBODY likes to have themselves under the microscope in Washington D.C.

The House of Representatives Committee on Small Business, and the Senate Small Business and Entrepreneurship Committee may be excellent places to start making some noises about this.

 

[Mickey_TLK]

Great letter, but a couple of quick thoughts.

Maybe we should mention our willingness as a industry to unite under ONE shipping company, should one provide us with the means to fairly run our business. Of course this would not be binding, but may add to their temptation.

Second, my only worry with contacting congressmen is if we were to pick the wrong one. As we are all well aware, some people do not care for herps in any way or form. As such it could backfire, as we may alert a person to something they were unaware of, and worse unsupportive of.

But then again, I dont trust anyone in government.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles