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UPS, FedEx, Airborne Express, USPS - bad guys.

Remember we want this change to happen as fast as possible. Limiting ourselves by saying we will only ship with the first company who changes policy would be bad, after all we want them to compete for our business don't we? Competition would mean lower rates!
 
not only snakes, all reptiles

I have had numerous problems was using Airborne for several lizard shipments then one day a big boss comes out with a book and read we can only ship turtles or tortoises according to this book.

I call one UPS office sure no problem, call the one closer to the airport. Oh not we don't accept reptiles.

same story with USPS and fedex. call 5 locations you get 5 varying answers. from the same company. We can't limit this to a snake only issue. unless you guys only are into turtles.
 
please don't involve congress they will only pass more stupid laws we don't need

Please don't do that. less government is better government. Good thing we don't get as much as we pay for LOL
 
Im not suggesting we hold out for anything at all. I just thought it might be good to dangle the carrot soo to speak. Let them know that hey you guys give us above the board shipping needs, and we will give you volume. Let them know we can be orginized, isnt that the point of a group letter.

Then again by sending a group letter that point could be obvious, just a idea.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
I do not know if anyone has thought about this but what about a breeders co-op ? If we could get enough breeders together and then present ourselves to companies perhaps it might give them more incentive to allow shipping of harmless herps . Its worth a try .

In the end it is another case where herpers need to ban together to keep our hobby viable . My options here in NW Ohio are few . Selling at shows : the one closest to me is Lansing Michigan which is about 2 hours away same with Taylor Michigan . The All Ohio show in Columbus is 3 hours away and Indy is 4 hours . After that I am left with local shops and adds in the paper .


I am a beginner to breeding herps but not to the hobby itself . Shipping problems have had me concerned for some time now . If I want to order say corns from Kathy who will be shipping and will they arrive safe and sound ? As a new breeder will I have other options other than local ones ?

To WebSlave thanks for the email alert . I have not been on the site for some time now and am glad to hear about shipping updates . You are all doing a great job fighting for fellow breeders / herpers to do bussiness . Keep up the good work .


Kevin Lorentz





National Amphibian and Reptile Owners Alliance
 
shipping

I have'nt shipped snakes but I have shipped turtles , not as a dealer but as a private individual giving away some rescues to good homes and giving away or selling some turtles I could not keep that were my own pets . I wanted to use UPS and I was told that I needed to open an account to do this so I did , I had no trouble the first few times but did run into times where I marked the box and the slip Live harmless turtles and the fragile and other needed cautions , I was told they can't ship live animals then I had the place that has a pickup service by all three UPS , FEDEX and AIRBORNE , call UPS what I was told I had to do was leave a hand written note releasing the driver and UPS of all responsibilty if something were to happen to the shipment , that was a risk in a sense but they do not garantee loss or damage to live animals as they would other items and don't offer this service so I shipped them and they did it , I have not had anything happen so far and I have not shipped more than 6 or 7 times and a few were through adopters airborne and fedex accounts sent to me , I also had problems with them so I decided not to mark the boxes except for fragile and perishable and packed them very well which added weight and upped the cost but to me for what little I do it was well worth it , but for someone in the business this would affect them in a much more drastic manner . I would certainly be willing to help out with a class action so I could and others I know could still purchase herps online and have them shipped , what about the insurance that is not inclued with live animals , is this also being addressed ?
 
I do not know if anyone has thought about this but what about a breeders co-op ? If we could get enough breeders together and then present ourselves to companies perhaps it might give them more incentive to allow shipping of harmless herps . Its worth a try .

In the end it is another case where herpers need to ban together to keep our hobby viable . My options here in NW Ohio are few . Selling at shows : the one closest to me is Lansing Michigan which is about 2 hours away same with Taylor Michigan . The All Ohio show in Columbus is 3 hours away and Indy is 4 hours . After that I am left with local shops and adds in the paper .


I am a beginner to breeding herps but not to the hobby itself . Shipping problems have had me concerned for some time now . If I want to order say corns from Kathy who will be shipping and will they arrive safe and sound ? As a new breeder will I have other options other than local ones ?

To WebSlave thanks for the email alert . I have not been on the site for some time now and am glad to hear about shipping updates . You are all doing a great job fighting for fellow breeders / herpers to do bussiness . Keep up the good work .


Kevin Lorentz





National Amphibian and Reptile Owners Alliance
 
Ron, you're screwed, sorry

Ron Billingsley, you have just stepped into the nightmare world of Airborn'es billing Dept. It took me six months to resolve and issue like that. I will never do business with them again. Get a lawyer to write a letter that starts with:
"f**k you sh**head, nasty letter to follow"
and maybe you will get some action (I actually had a lawyer do that for me on an unrelated issue, and it worked, go figure)
Good luck sir.
 
USPS Regulations

Here is the link that is specific to mailing animals / reptiles.

http://www.usps.com/cpim/ftp/pubs/pub52.htm

To sum it up the USPS states...

525.3 Reptiles
All snakes, turtles, and poisonous reptiles are nonmailable.
525.4 Poisonous Insects and Spiders
All poisonous insects and spiders, except scorpions under limited circumstances All snakes, turtles, and poisonous reptiles are nonmailable.
Click to expand...


I guess since the USPS bans the shipment of snakes, then private companies follow suit. Since the goverment sets the standards them I can see why private shippers don not want to ship them.


So it seem that the case is really against the USPS and US Governement???? If they change their regulations, then there would be a huge arguement against the private shippers for disreguard of goverment policy.

Am i looking at this all wrong? OR do you agree?
 
FedEx, Airborne Express, USPS, UPS

These idiots ship our reptiles everyday, even if they are not aware of it. They could get a lot of revenue from the shippers if they would change their standards on what kind of animals they will accept. Delta air is way too expensive unless you have to ship hots. They need to wake up and listen to their customers to benefit us all. I have had NIGHTMARES with Airborne Express, confiscated animals, opening boxes and even keeping my animal at their private homes for over a week. Just don't put LIVE REPTILES or anything similar on the box and take your chances until these morons wake up and see how much money they are loosing when customers choose to play by the rules.
Roy
 
Okay, so whats the consensus?

SO apparently nobody has a problem with the wording of the petition? If so I will post it today and provide a link to the petition for everyone to sign.
 
Can you give the name?

Who gave you permission on live harmless snakes? Perhaps a phone number too. It would be nice.
 
I won't sign it because it leaves out us Lizard guys

C. Reynolds said:
The petition has been placed online, plese follow the following link and sign!

Sign the online petition here!
Click to expand...


why doesn't it state Live harmless reptiles us lizard guys have the same problems. then they will only accept snakes and turtles. Isn't this a reptile and amphibian forum ?? I don't think it's fair to exclude us lizard guys I have seen RK post more than just snakes on KS. Why limit it and be so specific. I could state something like ( LIVE HARMLESS REPTILES ie: Snakes, Lizards, Amphibians, Tortoises etc. )
 
Most of the companies will ship lizards with approval.

As we are not asking them to drop the approval system, in reality we are just asking them to add snakes.

However I do see your point.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
Correct, as stated in the petition, most companies, including the US postal Service ALLOW the shipping of harmless reptiles and amphibians EXCEPT snakes.

We are not asking that they change their methods of accepting these shipments, just that they broaden their acceptance policies to include snakes.
 
OK, I signed the petition.

Spread the word, please. Anyone willing to make up a few banners so we can get them distributed across the net?

I have received word that a couple of webmasters do not support this effort, so expect this in some instances.

Let's get this ball rolling.
 
to C. Reynolds - Yes but there acceptance is sketchy at best

C. Reynolds said:
Correct, as stated in the petition, most companies, including the US postal Service ALLOW the shipping of harmless reptiles and amphibians EXCEPT snakes.

We are not asking that they change their methods of accepting these shipments, just that they broaden their acceptance policies to include snakes.
Click to expand...

Yes, but there acceptance is not blanket policy and Airborne per their book only accepts tortoises. And 1/2 the cities or shipping facilities in the cities. Make up the rules as per their mood, likes or dislikes of certain Lizards etc. Some people are afraid of frogs so they will say oh, we don't accept frogs. So they need to accept all reptiles all the time, not have get a acceptance letter. We are not trying to get into a Univesity here guys. Think about it. Why would you need a letter if it is included in writing in their shipping policies. As we all know Mammals must go Delta Dash or one of the other airlines. My position hasn't changed !!
 
Can we increase the visibility of the link for the petition?

Rich,

Would it be possible to have the petition in one post at the top of the BOI? Maybe even a post which can't be replied to. My concern is that by leaving it within this post it lacks visibility.

Regards.
 
Doug

I dont think we are going to get them to drop some of the stipulations. Nor do I think it would be wise of us to ask them to openly accept herps from everyone.

I think it would be ill advised of us not to expect some stipulations on this. Whlle I agree would shouldnt settle for a situation where some places accept one thing, and others dont. I think we must accept some sort of "contract" process everyone needs to apply for.

I dont think volume shold play a role, just simple proof you will ship within the desired manner to assure the health of the animals.

Maybe some wording could be changed to say ALL NON VENOUMOUS REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS, Including snakes. But as stated before its pretty much accepted that with approval you can ship lizards UPS. And it also appears with approval lizards, and most likely snakes, are ok Fed Ex. The only place we need to push again for lizards is airborne, and currently we are more focused on Fed Ex.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
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