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UPS, FedEx, Airborne Express, USPS - bad guys.

Okay so you get the approval to ship "live harmless reptiles"

How do you get around not violating the Lacey Act? Dont you have to put the species and number of each on the outside of the box? And if they do find out you are shipping snakes, what then? I know you applied to ship live harmless reptiles, but couldn't they just refer to their previous statements regarding snakes?

What if your local sales rep leaves the company? is your permit null and void? Or what if the new rep isn't as herptile friendly? Just a few questions to consider...

It still sounds like a lot of sneaking around to get permission to ship snakes. But that is just my opinion.
 
When I sent in my packaging application form, I explicitly noted the contents as being "live harmless snakes."

We'll see what happens......
 
I have a contract (Letter of Exception) with Fedex to ship live harmless reptiles (of which snakes are a part of the reptiles group). I mark all the boxes accordingly. This is why I stated that you need to get it in writing so you don't have to worry about personnel changes. No sneaking at all.

With UPS it was specifically live harmless lizards.
 
BTW, we're up to 253 signatures on the petition. Let's keep the ball rolling! Spread the word as much as possible.

Anyone interested in making up a banner graphic for this? I think it would help out.
 
I was looking at the pettition signatures, and I have one suggestion for thoose signing up on it. ROUND UP....LOL.


For example you may wonder how I came upon my estimate for shipping costs. I figured how many packages a week I felt I could HONESTLY ship were I able to ship openly and freely, and more iportantly competively. I know for a fact were I able to ship snakes reliably and openly with a door to door shipper my sales, and thus shipping costs, would increase dramaticly.

Besides it is a "estimite".

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
In my case, the figure I quoted was the actual figure out of my check book for both Airborne Express and UPS from 2003.

But I believe that if this shipping thing gets broken wide open, that number will increase dramatically. Many more people will be willing to get into this business, with corresponding purchases, if they have the confidence knowing they will not have the hassles we have wrestled with for years, shipping out their animals when they are into production.

I think this could become an exponential increase. Sure this probably scares the beejeesus out of some people thinking about the increased competition, but I think that will be a distant long term problem that will be self limiting. Most people will not make this sort of work their full time business simply because there are easier ways to make a living. They just don't realize this yet. Our business is dead anyway unless we can get new customers coming into the pipeline, so I am not going to worry about 10 years down the road when today is much more pressing.

Let's face it, the only really big spenders in this business are the people with aspirations of doing exactly what we are doing. We need to give them the incentive and opportunity to do that. No one can survive in this just selling onsies and twosies to people for pets.
 
Daniel,

I am sorry, I just realized how arrogant and belittling that last post of mine came off, and I apologize.

However, I still believe that you shipping under "Live Harmless Reptiles" may turn out to be a problem. I am interested in how Webslave does with his "Live Harmless Snakes" part. If he succeeds, it would definitely alleviate my doubts. If he doesn't, I would recommend you be careful in exactly how you label those boxes. :)

-Christian
 
Christian,

I didn't take it that way so no foul.

If you take out the interest in herps and look at it as a legal binding contract what they do not say can be as important as what is said. I am allowed to ship product A. As long as the products I ship fit into that definition then I am legal. I can ship Blue A's, Red A's, A's with legs and A's without.
 
Future shipping

MArk me down as a future shipper. I have no preferences about which company to use, yet, but I would prefer the option of door-to-door.
 
Fed Ex

Here's the bottom line with Fed Ex, as explained by our local Rep. They are more than willing to start accomodating the reptile business, however on their terms as to protect themselves and limit their liability. They have now realized the financial benefits from our industry and are being very cooperative to set up a box test & contract to ship live harmless reptiles, including snakes. They really jumped on the fact that they can & are going to require all animals to be sent priority overnight, which increases their profit even if we don't have as much volume.

That being said, I contacted Fed Ex again today & they stated that the "live harmless reptiles" as under my contract (which specifically includes snakes) only excludes venemous. We can ship amphibians, snakes, lizards- etc anything, any size, yes-we even covered a 10ft retic as a possible item to ship. As long as we signed and agreed to hold them harmless from any liability for shipping these animals(in our contract), agreed to waive our rights to file claims if the animals died in transit(in our contract), and shipped them in the approved & tested shipping boxes (in our contract also).

We have found that anything high dollar, oversized, or with tempermental issues/size that could cause a problem to the average joe- is more cost effective/convenient for us to ship strictly with Delta Dash. They provide full insurance and reimbursement if the animal arrives DOA due to their mistake-which Fed Ex will not cover under any circumstance.

The contract with Fed Ex is good whether you have the same sales rep or not. The sales rep need not be herp friendly or even compassionate to your needs. Simply call your local sales rep and pass on the information in this thread- REFER THEM TO JAMES BROWN FOR A WAIVER OF LIABILITY FOR SHIPPING SNAKES/REPTILES. Most will not know that Fed Ex is providing this service, however it is not up to your sales rep to decide if they like this service-Fed Ex has agreed to open this door for us. The contract is valid as long as you the shipper meets your end of the agreement as to what animals you ship (non-venemous) and what shipping methods you use (approved boxing only). They want to avoid any used, raggedy boxes that animals may escape from, and keep this as professional/safe as possible.

You then keep a copy of your contract with you when you drop off you clearly marked boxes for shipment & any new employees that give you a hassle can get educated. If you use the same shipping center it is easiest to set up a time to meet with the manager, with a copy of your documents, go over everything with him & he can relay the message to his employees, so that you won't have to deal with them individually.

We also have some great reptile supply companies that offer Fed Ex approved shipping boxes for sale. Using these boxes will ensure that your packaging gets approved during the testing process. I know that Scales/Daniel & Wendy Wedeking are selling shipping boxes at great prices & they are approved by Fed Ex, so that is one good place for those of you that are trying to get the ball rolling to get your shipping supplies from & guarantee that you will get an approval on the box test portion of this.

If anyone is having trouble with this, we are more than happy to help. Just drop us an email.

Thanks,
Jean & BK Baker
The Creature Company
www.thecreaturecompany.com
[email protected]
 
I have just sent an email to PIJAC
Executive Vice President/General Counsel

Marshall Meyers, [email protected]
Click to expand...

for their input on this. I have included the link to the petition as well as the pertinent threads on this site for their review.

I guess it can't hurt to see if they will get involved in this issue as well.
 
snakes hipped

i have shipped rosey boas, kenyan sand boas, and red tailed boas via fedex. I have shipped corns of all sorts by airborne express. I have recieved shipments from airborne, fedex, and ups. so add me to the growing list.
 
You guys are right on.....

I totally agree with the thoughts of most people who have chimed in and give a chin-chin to Webslave for having the balls to bring this up and take the fight to the corporate big wigs.

I ship on an average once a week via UPS. Some times I won;t ship anything but other times I have a few packages going out daily. Anyway, when I bring my package in I just keep my head down and hand it off. By now most of the guys at the front counter know me but what really chaps my hide is when something goes wrong in the shipping, which happens quite often. I'll call customer service to find out what the deal is, find out the package is sitting in the hub in KY because of a mechanical failure or some BS story. I'll then say "hey, well an expensive Chameleon is sitting in there is there any way you guys can make sure it is protected from the cold and heat?" The typical response is: "Well, Mr. Jillson you are not suppose to be shipping animals, blah, blah, blah". From there I'll argue that regardless if they are suppose to be shipping or not the fact is I've done this for quite some time and what is the difference between this and say a perishable medical device or something along those lines that is time sensitive, not to mention this is a living animal and deserves better treatment. I normally stump them with that but sometimes they just go back to the old "you shouldn't be shipping that stuff".

Anyway, I firmly believe that there is discrimination against the people in this kind of business and I don't think we should sit back with our thumbs up you know where and take it. If we can make a stand and demand better service they will have to listen becuase it is a lot of money we generate pure and simple.

Matt Jillson
 
Matt

Can I ask have you gotten a "waiver" or whatever you want to call it to ship reptiles from UPS Corprate?

I myself HAVE a "waiver" to ship harmless LIZARDS via UPS, and still have the exact situation arise about every other time I ship.
I even carry a copy of my "waiver" (not really sure what to call it, its not a contract, just a written statement allowing me to ship live harmless reptiles, but not snakes).

Anyways I just wonder how many people also have the "waiver" and still get the same situation.

Also your story points out exactly why UPS is likely trying to dump our business at this time. And this is why the BIG GUYS in the trade need to listen too. Their coustomers are also calling UPS asking why packages are delayed, and then stating that a "LIVE ANIMAL" is in the package, yada, yada, yada.

As I said before this is quite likely exactly why UPS wants to dump us. Too much effort and manpower put into dealing with time sensative packages. See most people send stuff out UPS and it gets there when it gets there. They may track it online, or after a week or two start to complain. But with live animals they start hearing phone calls right at 10 am I bet.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles
 
Shipping Harmless Reptiles

I agree,
As an industry we need 100% participation in order to get the results we need. In this country power is in numbers and dollars!!!
 
I prefer Fedex anyway !!

I have rec'd packages from UPS that looked like they were treated the Same Way Jim Carey treated that package in the movie Pet Detective. And looked like somebody took a sledge hammer to one corner and were able to inflict damage on a Factory packed computer case. I was totally dumbfounded when I saw the power supply and case trashed. I spoke to a Reptile guy in So. Cal. whom said he worked a seasonal stint at a UPS shipping warehouse. And after that he never used UPS to ship herps again. He said he couldn't repeat what he saw, but I wouldn't even believe how packages are treated. Also the prices are sometimes less via Fedex now.
 
I am having the hardest time trying to get in touch with my sales rep I left a message last Thursday and another yesterday and still no contact. How long do they take to get back with you?
 
Hurry Up!!! and WAIT

I contacted FedEx yesterday and was told that my account rep would be in touch with me in 24-48 hours. I'm not holding my breath, but am tying to give them time. From the sound of things, those of us getting a later start on this may have an easier time of it than those who approached it first due to their previous activity along these lines.

David
 
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