dwedeking
Member
I'd definitely get on the phone. That is the same BS response I got when I first started the process. Let them know you know other people are able to do it. Without losing your temper be stern with them.
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Responding to email notices you receive.
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UPS, FedEx, Airborne Express, USPS - bad guys.
- Thread starter WebSlave
- Start date
Brian Oakley
New member
well, I went to the above link and found nothing other than the fact that they do not receive/ship goods of our nature. I was hoping that I would find and email addy, but there was not one OR I overlooked it. Anyway, this is what I wrote in reply to her response to me. We will see what the reponse is this time.......LOL!
Denise,
I appreciate the prompt reply. I was under the impression the link below would allow me to contact someone to speak with regarding such services, but it does not.
I have read the 'Terms and Conditions' regarding live animals, but I still have a few questions and comments.
There is a very large market of individuals who breed nonvenomous snakes such as myself. I am talking multiple thousands if not 10,000+. I would think, if packaged properly to eliminate any liability on your end, you all would want a piece, if not all, of that market share.
I am one of many people who make multiple shipments a day, week, or month. I know that there are regulations when dealing/shipping venomous snakes, but I do not partake in that type of breeding. I am rather confused as to why there are some people that are permitted to ship nonvenomous reptiles/amphibians (including lizards, snakes, frogs, etc.), yet some run into many challenges when requesting and/or seeking the same.
I, as a 'shipper', am not looking for any responsibility on your part for damage or death in the event of such when shipping my snakes. I feel, as a small business owner, that it is my responsibility to provide my 'customers' with a healthy and in tact snake when such purchases are made. Although I have never had anything happen when shipping before, again, I take the responsibility if it were to occur.
Like I mentioned in my previous email, I am looking for a professional business partnership that would benefit both parties. I know any business that FedEx (as one of the largest shippers in the world) can get, would be much appreciated. The reptile breeding industry does not get a fare shake at the services that are provided to other industries in the country or world for that matter when it comes to shipping needs, that we as a business, need from time to time to be successful. We, like others, have to take proper actions and steps to insure the safety and well-being of the product we ship. That is the responsibility of me, as the supplier, to do so and am not looking for any support in that area. I am seeking, as a professional, an avenue to take my 'product' from point "A" to point "B" and believe FedEx can provide that best service when it comes to my needs.
Although I am just one piece of a VERY large pie in this industry, I believe, like mentioned before, that the rewards you and your team of professionals would benefit from would be astounding if given the same courtesy as a small minority in our profession have received in the past.
I know there are risks involved, but is the case in anything that your company ships on daily basis. Proper packaging along with explicit guidelines as to what is expected from you in our relationship is a must and would be very understanding.
I feel there is a way that FedEx and myself can work together and in the long run benefit us both in the professional world.
Just to rehash a few things, I want to share with you the steps that I take to insure the safety and security of the reptiles I ship (and your team as well although there really is no risk, but still needed thought and care is on my mind) to insure that my customers receive a well packaged snake that will arrive in great condition.
1. I use a sturdy cardboard box
2. I line the box with 1" styro to insure a humane level of heat/cold is maintained in the box during shipping
3. Plenty of shredded paper or crumbled newspaper to reduce, if not illuminate, that shock from moving while driving, flying, etc.
4. Snake is placed in a escape proof bag. These bags are designed for my industry for transporting reptiles. The bags are NOT airtight to allow the snake to breathe, they are very sturdy/thick to insure security of the snake not to escape. The bag is then tied in a knot tightly, again, to insure the snake cannot get out.
5. All the above is then placed in the box, taped shut over all joining sides/flaps of the box.
6. It Is the labeled "fragile- harmless reptile". This would be no different than if I were shipping a glass vase, just to make your company aware of the contents so you all can add your extra sense of professionalism and care when handling.
The last thing would be, how is it that other entities have been given such opportunities?
Respectfully,
Brian Oakley
Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Denise,
I appreciate the prompt reply. I was under the impression the link below would allow me to contact someone to speak with regarding such services, but it does not.
I have read the 'Terms and Conditions' regarding live animals, but I still have a few questions and comments.
There is a very large market of individuals who breed nonvenomous snakes such as myself. I am talking multiple thousands if not 10,000+. I would think, if packaged properly to eliminate any liability on your end, you all would want a piece, if not all, of that market share.
I am one of many people who make multiple shipments a day, week, or month. I know that there are regulations when dealing/shipping venomous snakes, but I do not partake in that type of breeding. I am rather confused as to why there are some people that are permitted to ship nonvenomous reptiles/amphibians (including lizards, snakes, frogs, etc.), yet some run into many challenges when requesting and/or seeking the same.
I, as a 'shipper', am not looking for any responsibility on your part for damage or death in the event of such when shipping my snakes. I feel, as a small business owner, that it is my responsibility to provide my 'customers' with a healthy and in tact snake when such purchases are made. Although I have never had anything happen when shipping before, again, I take the responsibility if it were to occur.
Like I mentioned in my previous email, I am looking for a professional business partnership that would benefit both parties. I know any business that FedEx (as one of the largest shippers in the world) can get, would be much appreciated. The reptile breeding industry does not get a fare shake at the services that are provided to other industries in the country or world for that matter when it comes to shipping needs, that we as a business, need from time to time to be successful. We, like others, have to take proper actions and steps to insure the safety and well-being of the product we ship. That is the responsibility of me, as the supplier, to do so and am not looking for any support in that area. I am seeking, as a professional, an avenue to take my 'product' from point "A" to point "B" and believe FedEx can provide that best service when it comes to my needs.
Although I am just one piece of a VERY large pie in this industry, I believe, like mentioned before, that the rewards you and your team of professionals would benefit from would be astounding if given the same courtesy as a small minority in our profession have received in the past.
I know there are risks involved, but is the case in anything that your company ships on daily basis. Proper packaging along with explicit guidelines as to what is expected from you in our relationship is a must and would be very understanding.
I feel there is a way that FedEx and myself can work together and in the long run benefit us both in the professional world.
Just to rehash a few things, I want to share with you the steps that I take to insure the safety and security of the reptiles I ship (and your team as well although there really is no risk, but still needed thought and care is on my mind) to insure that my customers receive a well packaged snake that will arrive in great condition.
1. I use a sturdy cardboard box
2. I line the box with 1" styro to insure a humane level of heat/cold is maintained in the box during shipping
3. Plenty of shredded paper or crumbled newspaper to reduce, if not illuminate, that shock from moving while driving, flying, etc.
4. Snake is placed in a escape proof bag. These bags are designed for my industry for transporting reptiles. The bags are NOT airtight to allow the snake to breathe, they are very sturdy/thick to insure security of the snake not to escape. The bag is then tied in a knot tightly, again, to insure the snake cannot get out.
5. All the above is then placed in the box, taped shut over all joining sides/flaps of the box.
6. It Is the labeled "fragile- harmless reptile". This would be no different than if I were shipping a glass vase, just to make your company aware of the contents so you all can add your extra sense of professionalism and care when handling.
The last thing would be, how is it that other entities have been given such opportunities?
Respectfully,
Brian Oakley
Brian Oakley
Phoenix, Arizona
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Brian Oakley
New member
I KNOW, I KNOW, the numbers are not EXACT by any means (10,000+), but then again, this still applies to just the ones who ship once or twice a year. Would not surprise me at all if it was a good sized number!
Brian Oakley
New member
Here was the latest response to my last email (above). I suggest we all call regarding this. Maybe they will realize by the amount of calls that there is a BIG chunk of business they are missing out on. Strange how I sent an email to a 'Denis' but got a response from Teresa.......just something I noticed.
Thanks for contacting FedEx.
Please contact our Live Animal Desk at 800-405-9052.
I hope this helps.
Teresa Morton
Thanks for contacting FedEx.
Please contact our Live Animal Desk at 800-405-9052.
I hope this helps.
Teresa Morton
Brian Oakley
New member
just an FYI, I had to leave a message. Not sure if it was due to the hours or if that is standard. It says on the message that they do not ship any reptiles and only ship zoo animals and horses.
I find that odd and contridicts their own policies. We all know they ship lizards and amphibians.
One thing that came to mind while discussing this with a friend, I am sure there big arguement/point in snakes are not knowing which are venonmous. They will accept lizards, but does not speak to Gila or Beaded lizards which we know are venomous, so I suppose it is ok to ship those as long as they fall under the size restrictions they have?!?! I find that odd as well.
I will let everyone know what their response is when they call.
I find that odd and contridicts their own policies. We all know they ship lizards and amphibians.
One thing that came to mind while discussing this with a friend, I am sure there big arguement/point in snakes are not knowing which are venonmous. They will accept lizards, but does not speak to Gila or Beaded lizards which we know are venomous, so I suppose it is ok to ship those as long as they fall under the size restrictions they have?!?! I find that odd as well.
I will let everyone know what their response is when they call.
Tom McKenna
S & H Exotics
This is the lady I talked to and here is her number
1-800-463-3339
When you talk to someone at that number ask for Cinncinate Manager desk or CAT they call it. Then ask for Dowana tell her Tom McKenna from S&H Exotics told you to call her. That is the lady that got the whole ball rolling for me
Tom McKenna
1-800-463-3339
When you talk to someone at that number ask for Cinncinate Manager desk or CAT they call it. Then ask for Dowana tell her Tom McKenna from S&H Exotics told you to call her. That is the lady that got the whole ball rolling for me
Tom McKenna
Brian Oakley
New member
Well, I tried that number and got ahold of a Amy in 'CAT'. Dawana was gone for the day. I explained my needs and she put me on hold, came back and said that the department I would have to speak to is not answering at the time, but she listened to the message and they do not ship snakes of any kind and do not make exceptions to that policy.
I politely said that I was looking at a contract that was drawn up between FedEx and a 'fellow snake breeder' and that I would have to beg to differ with her. She said the best she could do is leave a message for Dawana to call me and she can do so tomorrow.
More to come..........
I politely said that I was looking at a contract that was drawn up between FedEx and a 'fellow snake breeder' and that I would have to beg to differ with her. She said the best she could do is leave a message for Dawana to call me and she can do so tomorrow.
More to come..........
Brian Oakley
New member
Tom,
Do you have a last name and also an email addy for her?
I wanted to send my email that I wrote and posted here as well as talk to her on the phone IF need be.
I htink it is rather humerous how I was told they make no exceptions, yet I have received shipments that were CLEARLY labeled 'live harmless snakes' (maybe it said reptiles) in the past fromverified shippers with FedEx AND we have a contract posted right here on this thread stating the approval to ship.
What gets me is they have no clue just how much more business they could get by accpeting them, complete ignorance on their part and they will not even look into the market share they could pick up.
Do you have a last name and also an email addy for her?
I wanted to send my email that I wrote and posted here as well as talk to her on the phone IF need be.
I htink it is rather humerous how I was told they make no exceptions, yet I have received shipments that were CLEARLY labeled 'live harmless snakes' (maybe it said reptiles) in the past fromverified shippers with FedEx AND we have a contract posted right here on this thread stating the approval to ship.
What gets me is they have no clue just how much more business they could get by accpeting them, complete ignorance on their part and they will not even look into the market share they could pick up.
Tom McKenna
S & H Exotics
I got the same run around until I talked to Dawana. SO keep trying to reach her she got mine all set up and zero problems since then
Brian Oakley
New member
TOm,
I will do that, but do you have a last name and an email address for her?
I just like to keep things in writing so I can use it is backup if needed.
I will do that, but do you have a last name and an email address for her?
I just like to keep things in writing so I can use it is backup if needed.
Tom McKenna
S & H Exotics
AHH Last name is McKenna like my name here and they never asked for email address but this is one Im registered under is [email protected] at Fedex
Brian Oakley
New member
TOm,
I am talking about Dowana's last name and email, I know yours!
read my posts again.........LOL!
I am talking about Dowana's last name and email, I know yours!
read my posts again.........LOL!
evansnakes
New member
I have been shipping with FedEx for many years, with their knowledge and consent of what I ship and how I do it. Sometimes I use styros marked "live harmless reptiles" or "tropical fish" and sometimes they say "perishible" that is due to what is available to me at the time as I'm not some huge volume business that can go to the expense to have styros printed up for me like some people do.
I will say this though, it is not a Lacey act violation to ship via FedEx. That is not possible. The Lacey act does not apply to shipping or how things are shipped, but rather it specifically applies to the transproting of animals accross state lines illegally or in the commission of another illegal activity with said animals like poaching or smuggling endangered species. Since the Lacey act cannot apply to a ball python how can I violate it if I ship a ball python? It may violate IOTA regulations (the regulations that state how things must be packaged and labeled for shipping by the government) or some other shipping regulation, but those restrictions and guidelines only apply to commercial airlines and the fact that FedEx is freight only and flies it's own fleet would exempt you from that as well. As far as decisions go, there may be some to be made, but just as nobody else would, I do not want or need anyone else to decide that due to their frustrations with their situation, I can no longer do business as I do. Evan Stahl
I will say this though, it is not a Lacey act violation to ship via FedEx. That is not possible. The Lacey act does not apply to shipping or how things are shipped, but rather it specifically applies to the transproting of animals accross state lines illegally or in the commission of another illegal activity with said animals like poaching or smuggling endangered species. Since the Lacey act cannot apply to a ball python how can I violate it if I ship a ball python? It may violate IOTA regulations (the regulations that state how things must be packaged and labeled for shipping by the government) or some other shipping regulation, but those restrictions and guidelines only apply to commercial airlines and the fact that FedEx is freight only and flies it's own fleet would exempt you from that as well. As far as decisions go, there may be some to be made, but just as nobody else would, I do not want or need anyone else to decide that due to their frustrations with their situation, I can no longer do business as I do. Evan Stahl
Rob @ RK Reptiles
ballpythonmorphs.net
Evan,
You should go read the Lacey Act in its entirety. It is a clear violation of the Lacey Act if the package you are shipping is not clearly marked in accordance. It does not matter which carrier is used, the boxes still must be marked properly identifying the contents and if they are mismarked (i.e. Perishables) this is a violation. If you read it and still have questions all you have to do it pick up the phone, contact USF&W in D.C. and ask them to clarify it for you and they will be glad to let you know exactly what can and can not be marked on the package. The markings of Live animals (Harmless or Venomous), Quantity, Species names(s), and Common name(s) are supposed to be on the box. Also I.A.T.A. regulations are supposed to be followed as well in regards to the packaging of the box. Below is a link to the full act and a few excerpts from it regarding this.
(b) Marking offenses
It is unlawful for any person to import, export, or transport in interstate commerce any container or package containing any fish or wildlife unless the container or package has previously been plainly marked, labeled, or tagged in accordance with the regulations issued pursuant to paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title.
(c) Sale and purchase of guiding and outfitting services and invalid licenses and permits
(d) False labeling offenses
It is unlawful for any person to make or submit any false record, account, or label for, or any false identification of, any fish, wildlife, or plant which has been, or is intended to be--
(1) imported, exported, transported, sold, purchased, or received from any foreign country; or
(2) transported in interstate or foreign commerce
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusfd16usca3371.htm
You should go read the Lacey Act in its entirety. It is a clear violation of the Lacey Act if the package you are shipping is not clearly marked in accordance. It does not matter which carrier is used, the boxes still must be marked properly identifying the contents and if they are mismarked (i.e. Perishables) this is a violation. If you read it and still have questions all you have to do it pick up the phone, contact USF&W in D.C. and ask them to clarify it for you and they will be glad to let you know exactly what can and can not be marked on the package. The markings of Live animals (Harmless or Venomous), Quantity, Species names(s), and Common name(s) are supposed to be on the box. Also I.A.T.A. regulations are supposed to be followed as well in regards to the packaging of the box. Below is a link to the full act and a few excerpts from it regarding this.
(b) Marking offenses
It is unlawful for any person to import, export, or transport in interstate commerce any container or package containing any fish or wildlife unless the container or package has previously been plainly marked, labeled, or tagged in accordance with the regulations issued pursuant to paragraph (2) of section 3376(a) of this title.
(c) Sale and purchase of guiding and outfitting services and invalid licenses and permits
(d) False labeling offenses
It is unlawful for any person to make or submit any false record, account, or label for, or any false identification of, any fish, wildlife, or plant which has been, or is intended to be--
(1) imported, exported, transported, sold, purchased, or received from any foreign country; or
(2) transported in interstate or foreign commerce
http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/stusfd16usca3371.htm
Brian Oakley
New member
well, this is where I stand.
I got a call back from a guy by the name of Mark Bakkey. Told him my situation eh then said he was going to call a Lydia and the two of them would call me back (so no I never heard from Dowana). He calls me back and says that Lydia said to call James Brown and tell him Lydia said to call.
I spoke with him, told him my situation. He said that "wavers" are only set up for retail to retail shipping. I said that I was not a retail outlet (no storefront so to speak). I said there is not difference between me shipping from my home or a store. Same packaging, same rules from them.
He said the best thing to do is call back the regular FedEx number (1-800-GOFEDEX) and ask for a Acct. Rep. (for my area) to call me back. I have done so and now I suppose I will go through the same crap with that person.
In other words, it sounds like their hopes are that I will get tired of talking to all these people and just give up..........NOT!!!! That will not happen.
I am posting this info so you all can take them same steps as me OR just go straight to the Acct. Rep. Like I said, if we want to get this done, we need to do something about it and call in great numbers.
Update to come............
I got a call back from a guy by the name of Mark Bakkey. Told him my situation eh then said he was going to call a Lydia and the two of them would call me back (so no I never heard from Dowana). He calls me back and says that Lydia said to call James Brown and tell him Lydia said to call.
I spoke with him, told him my situation. He said that "wavers" are only set up for retail to retail shipping. I said that I was not a retail outlet (no storefront so to speak). I said there is not difference between me shipping from my home or a store. Same packaging, same rules from them.
He said the best thing to do is call back the regular FedEx number (1-800-GOFEDEX) and ask for a Acct. Rep. (for my area) to call me back. I have done so and now I suppose I will go through the same crap with that person.
In other words, it sounds like their hopes are that I will get tired of talking to all these people and just give up..........NOT!!!! That will not happen.
I am posting this info so you all can take them same steps as me OR just go straight to the Acct. Rep. Like I said, if we want to get this done, we need to do something about it and call in great numbers.
Update to come............
Tom McKenna
S & H Exotics
Don't give up I got same BS run around but I got mine!
Brian Oakley
New member
I tought it was rather funny that this Mark Bakkey character told me that James Brown was the "Animal Desk' Manager and he gives all thumbs up and thumbs down. Then I find out he cannot help me at all.
By the way, anyone that may want to speak to James regarding their own individual cases can call him at 901-434-8494.
Out of curiousity, is anyone trying the same that I am or am I a one man show? Just wondering just how many people would ike to see change in this policy.
By the way, anyone that may want to speak to James regarding their own individual cases can call him at 901-434-8494.
Out of curiousity, is anyone trying the same that I am or am I a one man show? Just wondering just how many people would ike to see change in this policy.
I called FedEx and set up an account with them because that is necessary before I could be considered to get a special waiver (I never used them enough to set up an acct before). I was also told that Dowana was a temp with them and that she is no longer at that location. I was to be forwarded to the live animal desk (800-405-9052), I was on hold for about 5 minutes and then the woman that was to put me through to them got back on the line and told me that she spoke to the people at the live animal desk and they told her that the only person that I should talk to is James Brown (901-434-8494). She said that she tried to talk to James but she keeps getting the answering machine. I am supposed to call James myself later to ask about the waiver.
Airborne shipper
I own a retail reptile shop (Chicago Reptile House) in Indiana and have been using Airborne Express to ship all non-venomous reptiles for the past 10 yrs. There is another Chicago Reptile House in Illinois that my friends own and have been doing the same. Just 2/2/04 I shipped out a snake to Tennessee. Well guess what...It never got there. I checked the fauna for some help on the situation and low and behold I find this thread. I've been researching all day and cannot find anything about shipping snakes through Airborne. This is the closest thing I could find>
17. Airborne Express shall not be liable for loss, damage or delay to shipments of tortoise, frogs, non-venomous insects, live fish and crustaceans.
If anyone else has any other info about the shipping of snakes with Airborne, please let me know. I already had my lawyer (fellow herper) look over Airborne's website as well as all the receipts and paperwork that I have. Some of you had some questions about Airborne/Fed Ex/ Ups letting some people ship and not others. I'm not sure about the Grandfather Clause, like I said I've been shipping for 10 years and there were never any questions asked. I set up an account with Airborne and like Evan stated, I use whatever boxes I have. Some say live, harmless reptiles, some say tropical fish, and some say nothing at all. As far as the snake that was lost in shipment, it was clearly Airborne's fault and they reimbursed me for the shipping costs. I didn't mention that it was a snake yet, because I feel that it will still get there alive.
And Ron Billingsley from NightCreatures, I have a good lawyer in Indiana if you still need one.
Thanks...Rick Kelley
I own a retail reptile shop (Chicago Reptile House) in Indiana and have been using Airborne Express to ship all non-venomous reptiles for the past 10 yrs. There is another Chicago Reptile House in Illinois that my friends own and have been doing the same. Just 2/2/04 I shipped out a snake to Tennessee. Well guess what...It never got there. I checked the fauna for some help on the situation and low and behold I find this thread. I've been researching all day and cannot find anything about shipping snakes through Airborne. This is the closest thing I could find>
17. Airborne Express shall not be liable for loss, damage or delay to shipments of tortoise, frogs, non-venomous insects, live fish and crustaceans.
If anyone else has any other info about the shipping of snakes with Airborne, please let me know. I already had my lawyer (fellow herper) look over Airborne's website as well as all the receipts and paperwork that I have. Some of you had some questions about Airborne/Fed Ex/ Ups letting some people ship and not others. I'm not sure about the Grandfather Clause, like I said I've been shipping for 10 years and there were never any questions asked. I set up an account with Airborne and like Evan stated, I use whatever boxes I have. Some say live, harmless reptiles, some say tropical fish, and some say nothing at all. As far as the snake that was lost in shipment, it was clearly Airborne's fault and they reimbursed me for the shipping costs. I didn't mention that it was a snake yet, because I feel that it will still get there alive.
And Ron Billingsley from NightCreatures, I have a good lawyer in Indiana if you still need one.
Thanks...Rick Kelley