upstate exotics (good people)

[DThomas]

Ken promised to pay...I promised to give him his site once his outstanding balance had been paid in full.

I have no problem with that. But the site itself and the domain are seperate entities. They are not dependent on each other. And they are paid for seperately.

It's like going and buying a car. You go get a loan (I built a site on the loan, Ken did not pay me a dime for design or hosting up front), but you have to come up with a down deposit (Ken paid for the domain), you drive the car around and use it to get you to work(make changes to the site, advertise it, use it as a tool to make you money), then you say screw the bank (Moonlit Media) I'm not gonna pay...what happens...you have an opportunity to pay your bill before they take the car back....if you don't pay they take the car and sell it...or you finally pay and they give you the car back.

Not a very good analogy. The car=website. Of course you can with hold the website until it is paid for. I can't see how paying for the domain can be considered a down payment on web design. He could have registered the domain himself and just pointed it to your server. Instead, he had you register it for him, and you were paid for it. It's his.

I am, though, real interested to hear from everyone here (since some think I am so wrong) how THEY would handle this situation....to make sure they would get paid.

You follow the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, use a collection agency, or sue him.

 

[Dragondad]

Question

I dont know as I stated before, but have a question. How is then some own a domain name of an entity that ripped them off?

 

[Wilomn]

Micheal,

Sometimes people have a business without registering the name with an internet registry company. Anyone can register any available name.

Wes Pollock

 

[UpstateExotics1]

He could have registered the domain himself and just pointed it to your server.

Yes, you're right....BUT HE DIDN'T.

He had me register it for him, to go with the web design & hosting. His domain was registered 7/3 by me, he was on our dns servers 7/3 and his site was up 7/4.

It was all one deal, all through Moonlit Media.

Anyone can go register a domain on their own...yes, and they have it in their name.

But when you register with a hosting company (Moonlit Media)...NOT internic or domain reg directly.....you get the package deal...the hosting company registers it FOR you.

Now let me go finish this reptile thing....I can't read and post regarding his website and the reptiles at once...I'm trying though....

 

[elite]

this is ken and i am new to this site

i need advise. i partnered up with upstate and i am out 5200.00 in snakes + a whole lot more.
they are saying i did not pay.
thet have 5200.00 of my snakes and the webdesign was 1500.00
i know this is crazy, but i told them i would let them kep the 5200.00 in snakes and call the web design even. they said no
( I can email anyone these emails) my animals are on their site and on kingsnake and i believe they have sold them and can not give them to me. that is why they said no.

 

[elite]

thank you

i bought the domain and upstate is using it for their personal gain.
analogy.
you buy a piece of land (domain) and someone builds and house on it without your permission then what. who owns the house???

 

[Wilomn]

Ken,

If you could post any proof you have, invoices, emails, photos, contracts,whatever there is, it would be much appreciated. With sal and alison this proof is needed as they, or alison anyway, will be posting her side of it as well and I for one will want to compare what she has and says with what you have and say.

Wes Pollock

 

[Stardust]

Ken, I think perhaps you should post your proof as upstate says they are going to be posting their proof, right now it is one persons words against another.
Talk it cheap. And that is on both your end and upstates, so post proof.

 

[elite]

hello

please tell me exactly what proof you want and i will post it right now
thank you
ken
ps i agree talk is cheap and proof is solid

 

[Wilomn]

OK, once again....

Contracts
Emails
Photos
Invoices
Cancelled checks
Bank statements showing payments
Credit card reciepts
Anything else to verify what you have said

Ken, no one is trying to give you a hard time here. We just want proof of what you are saying. Since many of us have been down this road a time or two with upchuck we have a pretty good idea of what to ask for.

Wes Pollock

 

[elite]

okay

i will start posting this info as fast as i can do not have pics here will take tomm. and post them. as far as a contract. we went into this entire thing as partners so it was all verbal
i will post eberything as quickly as i can please be looking fo rthe info
ken

 

[Stardust]

I think perhaps we should give these people time to get their bearings together without pressure.

 

[elite]

here are mt bank records

the below info is where i paid for the domain with my credit card and allison sent me info that i had bought the site and we spoke saying it was in my name
once again....


NOTICE THE FIRST LINE IS MY ACTUAL BANK TRANSACTION O FTHE DOMAIN PURCHASE
07/07/2003 Check card Purchase
Namecheap.com AT 09018100 661-310-2107 CA -$8.88

Ken:

Here's a copy for your records:


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Namecheap.com
Domain Registration Summary
Date: 7/3/2003
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Alison,

Thank you very much for registering domains at namecheap.com. The following is the summary of your registration.

User : moonlitmed
Transaction ID : 7983140F04ADB900:NYZM:083184808259280FJPPW 01:
Order ID : 148.64.144.135-1057271224-143951-20806-8
Initial Charge : $8.88
Final Cost : $8.88

Domain Information
------------------

elitereptile.com registered successfully. For 1 Year(s)


Please note that if your Final Cost is less than what you have paid for initially, then the difference will be credited back to your card. If you have any problems or questions, Please contact us with the above
information.

Thank you,
Namecheap.com team
Sincerely,
Alison Tornambene
Alison Tornambene
Owner
Moonlit Media
518-692-3101
http://www.moonlitmedia.com
[email protected]

 

[elite]

MY BEARINGS

my bearings are staraight i have proof of all i have spokejn and i plead for your help
ken

 

[elite]

proof

here is the username and passwoed she sent me and it never worked another lye from her::

Username: eliterep
Password: yates
Domain: http://www.elitereptile.com

 

[UpstateExotics1]

Now this Reptile thing.....

I will try to keep these in order to limit confusion...as I said, Ken for the past 2 weeks or whatever it has been wouldn't call us, wanted correspondence to be via email...so there's a few hundred to sort through...Original copies are available for anyone who has a large enough mailbox to handle all of them. I'll keep it just to the basics here.

Back in July, before this big order came about we shipped Ken 1.2 Jungles (now for sale on KS), Ceylonese Python (keeping as a breeder), Gorgeous Green Tree Python (for sale on KS), and 2 big breeder boas (which one is possible GRAVID!!!!)....we shipped out and paid for shipping as Ken was going to take them and pay us later (I even watermarked the pictures and added them to his site per his request once he received them).

We shipped him all that...total $1235 + shipping which we haven't received payment for.

Ken also wanted banner advertising for Eilte and his wife's company on herp ads, which we did for him at no charge.

Then around the 10th or so is when this whole "partnership" was discussed. He had a new facitilty he was working on and we would work together on things, also we would be helping him get into the business.

On 7/13 we did a preliminary list with Ken on what this order would consist of (so he could ok it). This was to get inventory for our new partnership:

This is what we're looking to purchase:

6 Western Chuckwallas $50/ea
24 Eastern/Western Collard Lizards $12/ea
50 Baby Leopard Geckos $10/ea
25 Tokays $5/ea
50 Golden Geckos $5/ea
50 White Lined Geckos $8/ea
25 African Fat Tail Geckos $15/ea
50 Steudner's Geckos $2.50/ea
24 Gold Tegus $15/ea
50 Savannahs $9/ea
50 Nile Monitors $12/ea
6 Blue Spot Timors $90/ea
24 C.A. Alligator Lizards $10/ea
24 Red Eye Tree Frogs $13/ea
25 Albino Pac Man Frogs $10/ea
25 Brown Pac Man Frogs $10/ea
50 Peninsular Cooters $5/ea
100 Red Ear Sliders $2/ea
100 Florida Soft Shells $2.25/ea
24 Bullsnakes $15/ea
12 Desert Kingsnakes $30/ea
12 Western Milksnakes $30/ea
12 Great Plains Ratsnakes $20/ea
12 Large Red Corns $40/ea
12 Large Yellow Rats $25/ea
12 Green Anacondas $70/ea
12 Yellow Anacondas $65/ea
50 Burmese Pythons $20/ea
12 Reticulated Pythons $50/ea
12 Eastern Fox Snakes $30/ea
12 Western Coachwhips $10/ea
50 Water Snakes $8/ea
12 Long Nose Snakes $25/ea
12 Glossy Snakes $20/ea
6 Baby D'Albert's Pythons $90/ea
12 Large Texas Ratsnakes $25/ea



Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

Upstate Exotics
http://www.upstateexotics.com
[email protected]
AOL Screen Name: UpstateExotics
ICQ # 269748478
1-866-551-PETS
518-692-3101

OUR *NEW* Shipping Terms
Health Guarantee:
We provide the following guarantee to the customers of, "Upstate Exotics":
We guarantee that animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics", will arrive alive, and in good health and condition.
Buyers have SEVEN DAYS to determine the health of the animal, or the animal may be returned to, "Upstate Exotics", in good condition, for a FULL REFUND, INCLUDING THE SHIPPING COSTS BACK TO US!!
The first 24 hours are for "Buyer's Remorse", (that includes mis-sexed animals), the next SIX DAYS are for HEALTH REASONS ONLY!
We will require a mandatory Vet report, stating (IN PLAIN ENGLISH) what the illness is, and HOW it was contracted! If it turns out it was our fault, "Upstate Exotics", will pay the Vet's Bill for the exam, also!
If you have ANY questions regarding our guarantees, please contact us at the number above.
Payment:

Acceptable payments include.... PayPal, or call the store number (above) and give us your credit card number right over the phone!
We accept the following credit cards: MasterCard, Visa, Discover and American Express.
We expect payment in full before we ship. Deposits on animals are non-refundable.
There are no Styrofoam-lined box charges, heat pack charges or packing charges for any animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics".
We will hold animals with payment/deposit for 30 days, unless otherwise previously discussed. If after 30 days full payment is not received and/or shipping is not paid, the animal will be restocked and deposit/payment will be lost and non-refundable.

oops I almost forgot...

8 Brazilian Rainbow Adults $135/ea (MINE...lol)
12 Guyana Red Tails 4'-6' $125/ea
12 Suriname Red Tails 4'-6' $125/ea


Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

Upstate Exotics
http://www.upstateexotics.com
[email protected]
AOL Screen Name: UpstateExotics
ICQ # 269748478
1-866-551-PETS
518-692-3101

OUR *NEW* Shipping Terms
Health Guarantee:
We provide the following guarantee to the customers of, "Upstate Exotics":
We guarantee that animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics", will arrive alive, and in good health and condition.
Buyers have SEVEN DAYS to determine the health of the animal, or the animal may be returned to, "Upstate Exotics", in good condition, for a FULL REFUND, INCLUDING THE SHIPPING COSTS BACK TO US!!
The first 24 hours are for "Buyer's Remorse", (that includes mis-sexed animals), the next SIX DAYS are for HEALTH REASONS ONLY!
We will require a mandatory Vet report, stating (IN PLAIN ENGLISH) what the illness is, and HOW it was contracted! If it turns out it was our fault, "Upstate Exotics", will pay the Vet's Bill for the exam, also!
If you have ANY questions regarding our guarantees, please contact us at the number above.
Payment:

Acceptable payments include.... PayPal, or call the store number (above) and give us your credit card number right over the phone!
We accept the following credit cards: MasterCard, Visa, Discover and American Express.
We expect payment in full before we ship. Deposits on animals are non-refundable.
There are no Styrofoam-lined box charges, heat pack charges or packing charges for any animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics".
We will hold animals with payment/deposit for 30 days, unless otherwise previously discussed. If after 30 days full payment is not received and/or shipping is not paid, the animal will be restocked and deposit/payment will be lost and non-refundable.

Out of that order we were ordering some animals for ourselves.

On 7/15 that order was shipped to us from US Global....Here's the breakdown of what was ordered:

Invoice #892 Date: 7/15/03

2 Brazilian Rainbow Boas (male) $220
3 Brazilian Rainbow Boas (1.2) $330
8 Yellow Anacondas $400
50 Central American Boas $1250
4 Western Hognose $180
1 Packing Charges $12
1 Processing Fee (3%) $71.70
TOTAL: $2463.70 Out of that he did not pay all of it, I paid for some with old credit I had. (I paid shipping)

Invoice #893 Date 7/15/03

86 Burmese Pythons $1290
30 African Rock Pythons $660
6 Argus Monitors $630 (One returned, cut on leg, sent pics)
6 Blue Spot Timor Monitors $450
7 66% het Albino Boas $1400 (Credit $50 each as per Jasen)
10 Egyptian Ratsnakes $140
38 Croc Geckos $123.50 (only received 36)
50 Tokay Geckos $162.50 (3 DOA)
5 Blue Tongue Skinks $250
11 Het Albino Burmese Pythons $440 (1 DOA pics sent)
10 Golden Tegus $150
19 Flying Geckos $142.50 (Only received 17)
1 Albino Green Python $175 (Returned, pics sent)
3 Carpet Pythons $300
1 Columbian Red Tail $75
2 Macklots Pythons $150
1 Large Burm $75
100 Mississippi Maps $300
1 Packing Charges $60
TOTAL: $7573.50 (I paid Shipping)

SHIPPED DIRECTLY TO YOU
Invoice #908 Date 7/16/03

100 Central American Boas $2500 (9 not received)
1 Processing Fee (3%) $75.00
2 Packing Charges $12
TOTAL $2599.00 SHIPPING SENT FREIGHT COLLECT

The total of invoice #892 & #893 is $10,037.20. He certified a check for $9,000 direct to US Global and I paid, like I stated above, towards things we wanted (Brazilians and such combined on that invoice). There is over $1000 worth of animals I personally paid for and belong to me

We charged him what we paid for them....we never made a DIME off of it. So we never re-sold to him...this was a straight purchase from Ken to US Global....he sent the certified bank check from SC to US Global direct.

Ken asked them to be shipped here as he was going on a cruise to Brazil and his store was not ready yet. So we paid shipping on 7 HUGE boxes to be shipped here. Plus we paid shipping on the returned animals to US Global. I notified them with pictures and phone calls, which they are reviewing. There is credit out of that to be issued to Ken.

As anyone knows with buying large lots of WILD CAUGHT, imported animals, there is work involved. From, then until 8/20 we fed the animals at our expense, treated them with our medication at our expense and took OUR time to do all this. Ken just enjoyed his cruise. But, we were "partners" so we were doing our part.

Remember, those figures are NOT including the $1235 + shipping for the FIRST shipment (all of which I have pictures of before we sent them).

So on 8/20 here's a breakdown of what we sent him (most of which you'll notice wasn't what he purchased nor what he ever paid for:

1 Yellow Head Retic (not ordered from US Global)
41 Burms
25 Tokays
3 Egyptian Rats
2 Green Anacondas (Not from US Global)
5 100% het Albino Burms
4 Blue Tongue Skinks
1 Sumatran Red Blood Male (Not from US Global)
2 Yellow Rats Large (Not from US Global)
2 LTC Silver Cat Eyes (Not from US Global)
5' Amazon Tree Boa (Not from US Global)
2 Frilled Dragons (Not from US Global)
6 Gold Tegus
12 Croc Geckos
1 Black Throat Monitor (Not from US Global)
1 Uromastyx (Not from US Global)
20 Baby Eastern Garters (Not from US Global)
10 Rock Pythons
3' Rock Python (Not from US Global)
1 Ornate Flying Snake (Not from US Global)
4 Blairs' Ratsnakes (Not from US Global)
4 Albino Pacmans (Not from US Global)
10 Yellow Anaondas (only ordered 8 from US Global)
5' Female Anaonda (Not from US Global)
1.2 Jungle Carpet Pythons (Not from US Global)
20 Baby Cornsnakes (Not from US Global)
4 Argus Monitors
6 Blue Spot Timor Monitors
1.1 Eastern Garter Snakes (Not from US Global)
1 Sub-Adult Savannah Monitor (Not from US Global)
8' Burm Female (Not from US Global)
10' Burm Male
4 Bullsnakes (Not from US Global)
1 Bullfrog (Not from US Global)
25 Mississippi Map Turtles
6 CA Wood Turtles (Not from US Global)
6 Texas Ornate Box Turtles (Not from US Global)
6 Three Toed Box Turtles (Not from US Global)
8 Red Cheek Muds (Not from US Global)

Now let's look at how the figures work out:

You spent $9,000 on an order.
$930.25 credit right off the to be given to you (of which I DO NOT owe you, US Global does). Plus the other DOA's reported, which they are checking on.
I sent you $5285.50 in animals
That leaves: $2784.25

Out of that, I have all DOA's that didn't make it, and then some, in our freezer and plus I still have some inventory here, which is coming back to you.

You will see when all is said and done.

Regardless, I am out hundreds of dollars with shipping all of this, and not having anything to show for it. I paid for shipping the order with the Ceylonese and breeder boas etc to you, I paid for shipping on the huge order from US Global to be shipped here, I paid for shipping on returning YOUR ANIMALS to US Global out of that shipment. I am getting Airborne receipts together to add that to the total, which is around an easy $500 for shipping. (That does not include shipping to you, as that went on your account). So this total with be going up after I get exact shipping costs.

You also have to let me know if you are sending back the animals I sent you prior to this shipment

That's what was sent to Ken 9/3 at 10:57pm. I NEVER denied not shipping his animals back...PLUS it is NOT $5000. PLUS if it's all "dead" why is he selling my GOOD CB PRIVATE COLLECTION for his benefit on Kingsnake???? PLUS he has ads for the rocks, burms, etc...all on kingsnake.

I can take pictures, if anyone would like to see, of the animals remaining here...they are NOT sellable....some are not eating on their own...etc....all the things that come with buying large lots of WHOLESALE WILD CAUGHT ANIMALS! But we have been caring for since mid July. And I never denied not shipping them back, as AJ posted. I told Ken I was sending him everything as it was not fair for me to be caring for them and feeding them, at my own expense, due to the circumstances that arose. But that was Wednesday night. I cannot ship until Monday (which we intend to do).

Then the next morning is when all this transpired with him and his website, and kingsnake, etc etc.

Again, I can send ANYONE the original emails as there are hundreds of the the last few days alone....or just say the word and I'll post them all here.

Also, I just want to point out that on 8/25 we started to contact Ken via telephone. He had all of his phones for his Elite Windows & Siding and Pet Store routed to voicemails...he no longer had his secretaries answering his phone. That's when we knew something was up. We sent him NUMEROUS emails and left NUMEROUS messages to call us....nothing....until 8/30 when we finally got an email...and this all began. On 8/30 he requested an invoice be sent for the website....after that we did not hear from him again (via email) until 9/3. But we have not spoken to him on the phone since right after we shipped to him...it was like he dropped off the face of the earth with not returning calls. If you don't believe it, ask ken for email proof between those dates.

Also, I want to ad NONE of Ken's animals are for sale on our site or kingsnake. The animals we have we purchased from US Global direct (before this big order), I have all receipts or we purchased elsewhere. Ken only ordered 8 anacondas...he accused me of selling HIS anacondas on our site on the 3rd...how is that possible when we sent him 10...duh...we had our own...He also never asked to call it a wash with web design...

On 9/3 at 12:58 am Ken sent:

i just got home from work and noticed my site was once again on suspension, i am seeing how you are working with me.
is this snake one of mine that came in the 9,000.00 order i placed with US global and sent to your house or is this one of yours. this one doesn't look sick and you said you keep the sickly ones. ken

-------Original Message-------

From: Upstate Exotics
Date: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 01:42:53
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Message about: CB YELLOW ANACONDA BABIES

Hi Ken,

This is Alison. Your site is down b/c I haven't heard from you as to
what is going on, you said you would speak to Sal and get back with me.
I sent you the invoice and reminders, but still have heard no response,
not even a call asking for some time. As far as those yellow anacondas,
we had about 6 of our own before you ordered from US Global. If you
notice our Kingsnake ads and Website, we have taken down everything you
have at your facility, considering that I have customers calling me
telling me that Elite Reptile is "getting out of doing business with and
not partnering up with Upstate" after all...that was a waste of $500 for
us to put an ad in Reptiles Magazine. You could have at least said
something to us. I had assumptions as to the way you were acting, but to
hear it from someone other than you is very disappointing. I think it's
fair that since you couldn't talk to us about this, but instead having
your employees notify customers, that we box up what is left of the sick
animals and ship them to you. I don't feel it is appropriate for us to
be housing and nursing your sick animals back to health (considering we
have to have them quarantined from the rest of our animals) and we don't
see anything but a smoke screen of lies. To be fair, to make up for
DOA's, since you are not here and have no idea what we've been going
through with some of these animals, take the money of the items we sent
you out of our personal stock in replace of them. No one in the
business would do this for you, but we are "friends".

Also I would like you to ship back the Green Tree Python, 0.2 8'
Columbian Boas, 1.2 Jungle Carpet Pythons (first trio sent) and
Ceylonese Python, which I am still awaiting payment for and you have had
the animals since July. Either that or you can send $1235 via paypal
and I will even take shipping on that as a loss. As well as I have
taken a loss on having to pay for shipping from US Global on all your
animals to here with feeding and caring for them until they were shipped
to you. If any of the animals are sold, just send the money for them.

 

[UpstateExotics1]

here is the username and passwoed she sent me and it never worked another lye from her::

+===================================+
| New Account Info |
+===================================+
| Domain: elitereptile.com
| Ip: 66.246.108.52
| HasCgi: y
| UserName: eliterep
| PassWord: yates
| CpanelMod: Xskin
| HomeRoot: /home
| Quota: 100 Meg
| NameServer: dns1.hostgator.com
+===================================+
Account was setup by: moonlit (root)


ummm...nice try ken...

Also your IP was last logged on your cpanel when you had AJ delete everything...

IP 66.83.70.86.nw.nuvox.net

OrgName: Carolina Online, Inc.
OrgID: CAON
Address: 301 N Main Street
Address: Suite 5000
City: Greenville
StateProv: SC
PostalCode: 29607
Country: US
Telephone: 864-261-8773

TechHandle: EH324-ARIN
TechName: Hester, Eric
TechPhone: +1-864-331-8171
TechEmail: [email protected]

OrgAbuseHandle: NARD-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: NuVox Abuse Resolution Department
OrgAbusePhone: +1-800-460-1101
OrgAbuseEmail: [email protected]

Same IP for when someone "mysteriously" tried gaining access to all my domains.

 

[elite]

here

i am sorry to say this but you are full of it. tell everyone the entire story!!
i said i would purchase the animals(9,000.00 ++++) and because you had more expierence we would send them to you.
the deal we made which any idiot would jump on was this

I would buy the animals and then as we sale them i would get my investment back and then turn around and spend that money on more snakes. after the snakes were paid for on each shippment we would split the profit 50/50.
you had nothing to lose since i was paying for everything, only money to gain,
allison for the first time in your life tell the truth to everyone!!!!
so how can you pay for the shippments freight if i am the investor and the freight would be subtracted from the profit that we split???
i guess you do not understand buisness

 

[UpstateExotics1]

Also, I spoke with Melissa (i think that was her name)...when she called for Ken the day they were trying to hack into my system.

She mentioned they wanted to make changes to their site, but can't get into name cheap...I explained that you use any html editor to edit a site (such as front page or go live) and there is NO NEED to gain access to my name cheap account (which is where all of my customer domains are listed).

It sounded too fishy, and when I went to my name cheap account later that afternoon to work on some domins for another customer....this is the message I received:

[Q]For security reasons, this account has been locked due to too many failed login tries. The user name will be enabled after 9/5/2003 4:00:13 PM EST. If you think this is an error please email us using the same email address currently on your account to have your account enabled. [/Q]

I then notified the admin and had to get my account re-activated.

 

[UpstateExotics1]

freight would be subtracted from the profit that we split

So, since you got your animals back now and you are getting ALL the profit...plus MINE (for my personal animals that you have)....does that mean you are going to pay me for all the shipping also....

Just want to make I "understand your business"