Upstate Exotics ??? (help me)!

Living Art Reptiles · Jul 28, 2003

Upstate Exotics

HI Robin,
sorry to hear this. Thank goodness there is this site. It helps a lot of people. If I had known about and checked this site before doing business with Upstate Exotics I would have not loss $180.00. I have had many people contact me thanking me for this thread. It seems it has helped many people save money time and aggravation.
Again I am sorry about this.

Thank you,
Tony.

UpstateExotics1 · Jul 28, 2003

Yes, they did win an auction from us on reptibid. It was for two baby yellow rats. The baby rats were in a bad shed, and we didn't feel comfortable sending them. So instead, we tried to make up for that by sending two larger yellow ratsnakes. I'm not quite sure they were 34" long, but hey.

The customer did contact us and explain that they only found one snake (however we did package two up inreplacement for the smaller ones). Here's a copy of what we received:

Hi, Sal. Could you have gotten my box mixed up with someone else's? The snake I have is very sweet and about 32 inches long. Now I'll admit that I don't know much about snakes, but I didn't think that baby rats were that big.

I don't mean to be a pest, and I'm very happy with this animal, but I just want you to know what's going on. I think you sent me a snake that is way more expensive than the babies would've been.

On another email the same day:

The one that I got is gorgeous! Do you know if he's male or female? I love it.

I explained that there were 2 in the box, perhaps when taking out the newspaper packing material from inside the bag they missed one (as I know this does happen from time to time).

Then I get bad feedback on reptibid from them and now a post of fauna. They got 2 larger nicer snakes, rather than me sending 2 small snakes in bad sheds. I opted to do the "right thing".

Living Art Reptiles · Jul 28, 2003

Upstate Exotics.

Hi Alison,
how are you? Now that you have time in between your good guy post, you can as you always say do the right thing and quit lying about my refund and give me an actual one. For any one who might have missed my response to Alvaro questions I will re post my answers.

HI Alvaro, how are you?
1) The first of your Questions what happened with the ball python? You mean the male 100% het Yellow Ghost Ball Python with papers? I really don't know.

2) Second Question were they able to get in touche with Corey Estill? They used this person as an excuse for there incompetence. I want to publicly state again that this purchase was between myself Sal And Alison Tornambene of Upstate Exotics, Not Corey Estill. I have talked to Corey about this issue.

3) Third Question did they ever get back with you on this? The answer to this is a definite no! Like I stated before if they put a fraction of the energy that they have put running all over this board trying to promote good guys my situation would and should have been resolved.

4)

Alvaro.
I have noticed Corey has currently more for sale. Yes this is true, but I want to stay as clear as possible with bringing Corey up in this situation. It is just a crutch for these people. Again this purchase really technically has nothing to do with Corey. I was buying from Upstate Exotics period. They advertised the snake on there site. They were selling a 100% het for Yellow Ghost Ball Python with papers. It was only when they verified this fact trough email did I commit to the sale and allowed them access to my debit card information via email.

Upstate Exotics.
As far as replacing the paperwork, I have made numerous telephone calls to Corey Estill, as this is where the snake is from, and have been unsuccessful in reaching him. I did offer a refund to Tony if he chose not to wait for Corey to get back with us, and his refund was given.

This is a prime example of how they use excuses and blatant lies! The original problem was on 04/06/03 again with my emails being totally avoided not to mention none of my phone messages were being returned. They had thirteen days to fix the issue. There was absolutely no contact from them in those thirteen days. On 04/19/03 I received an email from them after I favored and decided on a refund. One email only full of excuses. On 04/19/03 I asked for the refund I was entitled to. Again with total avoidance on 04/22/03 I just happen to lucky enough to catch Sal, plainly stated I would receive an immediate refund. Then silence on their behalf until 04/30/03 when I came public. Thanks so much for your time and have a great evening.

Thank you,
Tony.

Click to expand...

Darin Chappell · Jul 28, 2003

Actually, the "right" thing would have been to email the buyer to see if that's what they wanted you do, in the first place! They bid on two baby rats, and you sent them two (assuming for a second I believe your story) adults. How is that the right thing to do? You may think it's a better deal, but what did the buyer (you know, the one you're supposed to be trying to please???) think?

Also, I find it hard to believe that a three foot snake got lost in the box filler material! This person has no proof, so I guess it's a he said/she said situation on that part. It's situations like these when a good reputation fills in a lot of blank spots. To bad for you, that you have no credibility, and no one is going to believe you if you said the sky way blue, Huh?

Robin,

If I were you, I'd either keep the adult yellow rat and write off the other snake, or sell that one, and try to recoup your money to buy what you actually wanted in the first place. Trying to get what you want out of Upstates Exotics will be much like banging your head against the wall . . . it'll feel better when you quit!

UpstateExotics1 · Jul 28, 2003

Not to pick Darrin.....

but this snake keeps growing every post....they weren't 3 feet.

but what did the buyer (you know, the one you're supposed to be trying to please???) think?

According to the emails we received that I quoted, the customer was very happy with the replacement.

Darin Chappell · Jul 28, 2003

You're absolutely right. I appologize for my slight exaggeration of the length of that snake. The snake, according to Robin's post was 34", not 36" as I implied. I still don't think you could lose a snake that big in the shredded newspaper of a shipment!

As to the customer being happy, or not, that may be debateable. What I was referring to was your statement that you were trying to "do the right thing" by sending larger snakes than were purchased. My point was, that at the time of your decision, you had no idea whether that would be acceptable to the customer or not. How can you, cart blanche, make determinations to substitute one animal for another without first checking with the buyer??? THAT is what I was talking about . . . your apparent lack of concern for the fulfillment of what you agreed to do.

Of course, this is not neccessarily a new development with you all, either. Is it?

whiteblackbird · Jul 28, 2003

upstate emails

Thanks for the tips, Jennifer. I will definitely follow them next time.

Here are copies of the emails. I realize that this is a very long file, but I wanted to put everything that was in them in here.

Robin Worth

Congratulations! This auction has successfully ended.
Item #1058561066 (2 BABY YELLOW RAT SNAKES!!!!)

Information:
Final Price: $40.00
Total bids: 3
Seller User ID: Sal
Seller E-mail: mailto:[email protected]

Leave FeedBack on seller: Sal
http://www.reptibid.com/cgi-bin/auc...getform&ALIAS=Sal&ITEM=b_snake_rats1058561066

Now What?
The buyer and seller should contact each other within three business days to
complete the sale. Not getting in touch leaves the contract open and can earn
you negative feedback.
NOTE: If you are a winning bidder, please send your payment directly to the
seller.

We are glad this auction was successful.
We hope you have enjoyed using the ReptiBid Online Auction and will come back
often!

Remember: ReptiBid Online Auction will not ask you for sensitive personal
information
such as your password, credit card and bank account numbers,
Social Security numbers, etc. in an email.

All Rights Reserved. Designated trademarks
and brands are the property of their respective owners.

Hi

The snakes are on there way to you and will be there tomorrow before 12 noon. Here is the tracking # 4606236154 via airborne express. If you need to track it you can call 1800 airborne and give them the tracking and they can help you.

Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

Upstate Exotics
http://www.upstateexotics.com
[email protected]
AOL Screen Name: UpstateExotics
ICQ # 269748478
1-866-551-PETS
518-692-3101

OUR *NEW* Shipping Terms
Health Guarantee:
We provide the following guarantee to the customers of, "Upstate Exotics":
We guarantee that animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics", will arrive alive, and in good health and condition.
Buyers have SEVEN DAYS to determine the health of the animal, or the animal may be returned to, "Upstate Exotics", in good condition, for a FULL REFUND, INCLUDING THE SHIPPING COSTS BACK TO US!!
The first 24 hours are for "Buyer's Remorse", (that includes mis-sexed animals), the next SIX DAYS are for HEALTH REASONS ONLY!
We will require a mandatory Vet report, stating (IN PLAIN ENGLISH) what the illness is, and HOW it was contracted! If it turns out it was our fault, "Upstate Exotics", will pay the Vet's Bill for the exam, also!
If you have ANY questions regarding our guarantees, please contact us at the number above.
Payment:

Acceptable payments include.... PayPal, or call the store number (above) and give us your credit card number right over the phone!
We accept the following credit cards: MasterCard, Visa, Discover and American Express.
We expect payment in full before we ship. Deposits on animals are non-refundable.
There are no Styrofoam-lined box charges, heat pack charges or packing charges for any animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics".
We will hold animals with payment/deposit for 30 days, unless otherwise previously discussed. If after 30 days full payment is not received and/or shipping is not paid, the animal will be restocked and deposit/payment will be lost and non-refundable.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Worth [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Reptibid auction #1058561066 (2 BABY YELLOW RAT SNAKES!!!!)

I haven't heard from you about these guys, and I don't know what to do to help you get them ready or whatever you need to do. Can you please let me know what info you need or something? I've never bought snakes online before so I don't know what to expect.

Thanks,

Robin/whiteblackbird

Mama CrowDragon

The White Blackbird is so white that it cannot be seen, and the Black Blackbird is merely its shadow.
----Jules Renard

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Hi

There was 2 yellow rat snakes in the box and i know that for a fact because my son helped me hole the bag when i put them in there. It must have been hiding in the shredded paper in the bag. Please let me know if you found it.

Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

Upstate Exotics
http://www.upstateexotics.com
[email protected]
AOL Screen Name: UpstateExotics
ICQ # 269748478
1-866-551-PETS
518-692-3101

OUR *NEW* Shipping Terms
Health Guarantee:
We provide the following guarantee to the customers of, "Upstate Exotics":
We guarantee that animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics", will arrive alive, and in good health and condition.
Buyers have SEVEN DAYS to determine the health of the animal, or the animal may be returned to, "Upstate Exotics", in good condition, for a FULL REFUND, INCLUDING THE SHIPPING COSTS BACK TO US!!
The first 24 hours are for "Buyer's Remorse", (that includes mis-sexed animals), the next SIX DAYS are for HEALTH REASONS ONLY!
We will require a mandatory Vet report, stating (IN PLAIN ENGLISH) what the illness is, and HOW it was contracted! If it turns out it was our fault, "Upstate Exotics", will pay the Vet's Bill for the exam, also!
If you have ANY questions regarding our guarantees, please contact us at the number above.
Payment:

Acceptable payments include.... PayPal, or call the store number (above) and give us your credit card number right over the phone!
We accept the following credit cards: MasterCard, Visa, Discover and American Express.
We expect payment in full before we ship. Deposits on animals are non-refundable.
There are no Styrofoam-lined box charges, heat pack charges or packing charges for any animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics".
We will hold animals with payment/deposit for 30 days, unless otherwise previously discussed. If after 30 days full payment is not received and/or shipping is not paid, the animal will be restocked and deposit/payment will be lost and non-refundable.
-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Worth [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2003 12:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Reptibid auction #1058561066 (2 BABY YELLOW RAT SNAKES!!!!)

Hey, I got my package and there's one little problem. The auction said that I was supposed to get 2 snakes, but there was only one in the package. Is the other coming in another box, or did you just forget to put it in?

The one that I got is gorgeous! Do you know if he's male or female? I love it.

Thanks,

Robin/whiteblackbird

Mama CrowDragon

The White Blackbird is so white that it cannot be seen, and the Black Blackbird is merely its shadow.
----Jules Renard
>From: "Upstate Exotics"
>To: "'Robin Worth'"
>Subject: RE: Reptibid auction #1058561066 (2 BABY YELLOW RAT SNAKES!!!!)
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:52:30 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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>Received: from upstateedhw04m (vsat-148-64-144-135.c005.g4.mrt.starband.net [148.64.144.135])(authenticated bits=0)by cassiopeia.email.starband.net (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h6M2rEYA012597for ; Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:53:29 -0400
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>
>Hi
>
>The snakes are on there way to you and will be there tomorrow before 12
>noon. Here is the tracking # 4606236154 via airborne express. If you
>need to track it you can call 1800 airborne and give them the tracking
>and they can help you.
>
>
>Thanks!!!
>
>Sal & Alison Tornambene
>
>Upstate Exotics
>http://www.upstateexotics.com
>[email protected]
>AOL Screen Name: UpstateExotics
>ICQ # 269748478
>1-866-551-PETS
>518-692-3101
>
>
>OUR *NEW* Shipping Terms
>
>
>Health Guarantee:
>
>
>We provide the following guarantee to the customers of, "Upstate
>Exotics":
>
>
>We guarantee that animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics", will arrive
>alive, and in good health and condition.
>
>
>Buyers have SEVEN DAYS to determine the health of the animal, or the
>animal may be returned to, "Upstate Exotics", in good condition, for a
>FULL REFUND, INCLUDING THE SHIPPING COSTS BACK TO US!!
>
>
>The first 24 hours are for "Buyer's Remorse", (that includes mis-sexed
>animals), the next SIX DAYS are for HEALTH REASONS ONLY!
>
>
>We will require a mandatory Vet report, stating (IN PLAIN ENGLISH) what
>the illness is, and HOW it was contracted! If it turns out it was our
>fault, "Upstate Exotics", will pay the Vet's Bill for the exam, also!
>
>
>If you have ANY questions regarding our guarantees, please contact us at
>the number above.
>
>
>Payment:
>
>
>
>>pstate%20Exotics4/images/cclogo.gif>
>Acceptable payments include.... PayPal, or call the store number (above)
>and give us your credit card number right over the phone!
>
>
>We accept the following credit cards: MasterCard, Visa, Discover and
>American Express.
>
>
>We expect payment in full before we ship. Deposits on animals are
>non-refundable.
>
>
>There are no Styrofoam-lined box charges, heat pack charges or packing
>charges for any animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics".
>
>
>We will hold animals with payment/deposit for 30 days, unless otherwise
>previously discussed. If after 30 days full payment is not received
>and/or shipping is not paid, the animal will be restocked and
>deposit/payment will be lost and non-refundable.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robin Worth [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 10:46 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Reptibid auction #1058561066 (2 BABY YELLOW RAT SNAKES!!!!)
>
>
>
>I haven't heard from you about these guys, and I don't know what to do
>to help you get them ready or whatever you need to do. Can you please
>let me know what info you need or something? I've never bought snakes
>online before so I don't know what to expect.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Robin/whiteblackbird
>
>
>
>
>
>>prv.gif> Mama CrowDragon
>
>
>
>The White Blackbird is so white that it cannot be seen, and the Black
>Blackbird is merely its shadow.
>----Jules Renard
>
> _____
>
>Add photos to your messages with MSN 8.
> Get 2 months FREE*.
>
>
> _____
>
>
>>D=87777> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!

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You have new Feedback on the auction item you won!

Feedback writer: Sal

with following Comments:

Sent 2 larger ratsnakes, as the smaller ones were in shed. Must have lost one
in the shredded newspaper, contacted us and we explained that...still left bad
feedback. SELLERS BEWARE!

You can find your feedback at:

http://www.reptibid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.pl?action=viewratelogin

Thank you for using ReptiBid Online Auction

What are you going to prove. I sent you 2 larger, more expensive
snakes. I have employees here and myself to prove it, if anything you
are ahead of the game. I could've sent you the 2 babies that were in
shed, but opted to do the right thing and sent you two larger nicer
snakes. If that's what you call fraud, I wish people would try to fraud
me like that.

Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

Upstate Exotics
http://www.upstateexotics.com
[email protected]
AOL Screen Name: UpstateExotics
ICQ # 269748478
1-866-551-PETS
518-692-3101

OUR *NEW* Shipping Terms

Health Guarantee:

We provide the following guarantee to the customers of, "Upstate
Exotics":

We guarantee that animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics", will arrive
alive, and in good health and condition.

Buyers have SEVEN DAYS to determine the health of the animal, or the
animal may be returned to, "Upstate Exotics", in good condition, for a
FULL REFUND, INCLUDING THE SHIPPING COSTS BACK TO US!!

The first 24 hours are for "Buyer's Remorse", (that includes mis-sexed
animals), the next SIX DAYS are for HEALTH REASONS ONLY!

We will require a mandatory Vet report, stating (IN PLAIN ENGLISH) what
the illness is, and HOW it was contracted! If it turns out it was our
fault, "Upstate Exotics", will pay the Vet's Bill for the exam, also!

If you have ANY questions regarding our guarantees, please contact us at
the number above.

Payment:

Acceptable payments include.... PayPal, or call the store number (above)
and give us your credit card number right over the phone!

We accept the following credit cards: MasterCard, Visa, Discover and
American Express.

We expect payment in full before we ship. Deposits on animals are
non-refundable.

There are no Styrofoam-lined box charges, heat pack charges or packing
charges for any animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics".

We will hold animals with payment/deposit for 30 days, unless otherwise
previously discussed. If after 30 days full payment is not received
and/or shipping is not paid, the animal will be restocked and
deposit/payment will be lost and non-refundable.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Worth [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 4:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: feedback 2

And, BTW, Sal: I still have every email you ever sent me and I have
reported
you for fraud. I can prove it by those emails.

NOW, fix what you messed up!

Whiteblackbird

src="http://skins.hotbar.com/skins/mailskins/img/Dragon/Dragons_blue_dra gon_prv.gif" size=4>The White Blackbird is so white that it cannot be seen, and the Black Blackbird is merely its shadow.
color=#00cc33 size=4>----Jules Renard

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

A liar and a thief?? Forgive me for giving you better snakes...and it's
not my problem you lost one of them, or maybe you even got it and are
trying to get another.

Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

Upstate Exotics
http://www.upstateexotics.com
[email protected]
AOL Screen Name: UpstateExotics
ICQ # 269748478
1-866-551-PETS
518-692-3101

OUR *NEW* Shipping Terms

Health Guarantee:

We provide the following guarantee to the customers of, "Upstate
Exotics":

We guarantee that animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics", will arrive
alive, and in good health and condition.

Buyers have SEVEN DAYS to determine the health of the animal, or the
animal may be returned to, "Upstate Exotics", in good condition, for a
FULL REFUND, INCLUDING THE SHIPPING COSTS BACK TO US!!

The first 24 hours are for "Buyer's Remorse", (that includes mis-sexed
animals), the next SIX DAYS are for HEALTH REASONS ONLY!

We will require a mandatory Vet report, stating (IN PLAIN ENGLISH) what
the illness is, and HOW it was contracted! If it turns out it was our
fault, "Upstate Exotics", will pay the Vet's Bill for the exam, also!

If you have ANY questions regarding our guarantees, please contact us at
the number above.

Payment:

Acceptable payments include.... PayPal, or call the store number (above)
and give us your credit card number right over the phone!

We accept the following credit cards: MasterCard, Visa, Discover and
American Express.

We expect payment in full before we ship. Deposits on animals are
non-refundable.

There are no Styrofoam-lined box charges, heat pack charges or packing
charges for any animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics".

We will hold animals with payment/deposit for 30 days, unless otherwise
previously discussed. If after 30 days full payment is not received
and/or shipping is not paid, the animal will be restocked and
deposit/payment will be lost and non-refundable.

-----Original Message-----
From: Robin Worth [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 4:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: feedback 2

Like I said: I have all the emails you sent and you never mentioned
substituting for the 2 babies. AND you only sent one. AND the snake you
sent
won't eat. You have proven yourself to be a liar and a thief.

src="http://skins.hotbar.com/skins/mailskins/img/Dragon/Dragons_blue_dra gon_prv.gif" size=4>The White Blackbird is so white that it cannot be seen, and the Black Blackbird is merely its shadow.
color=#00cc33 size=4>----Jules Renard

>From: "Upstate Exotics" <[email protected]>
>To: "'Robin Worth'" <[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: feedback 2
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:38:16 -0400
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Received: from cepheus.email.starband.net ([148.78.247.123]) by
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Jul
>2003 13:38:43 -0700
>Received: from upstateedhw04m
(vsat-148-64-144-135.c005.g4.mrt.starband.net
>[148.64.144.135])(authenticated bits=0)by cepheus.email.starband.net
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><[email protected]>; Thu, 24 Jul 2003 16:39:06 -0400
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>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Jul 2003 20:38:43.0538 (UTC)
>FILETIME=[92B82320:01C35223]
>
>What are you going to prove. I sent you 2 larger, more expensive
>snakes. I have employees here and myself to prove it, if anything you
>are ahead of the game. I could've sent you the 2 babies that were in
>shed, but opted to do the right thing and sent you two larger nicer
>snakes. If that's what you call fraud, I wish people would try to
>fraud me like that.
>
>Thanks!!!
>
>Sal & Alison Tornambene
>
>Upstate Exotics
>http://www.upstateexotics.com
>[email protected]
>AOL Screen Name: UpstateExotics
>ICQ # 269748478
>1-866-551-PETS
>518-692-3101
>
>
>OUR *NEW* Shipping Terms
>
>
>Health Guarantee:
>
>
>We provide the following guarantee to the customers of, "Upstate
>Exotics":
>
>
>We guarantee that animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics", will
>arrive alive, and in good health and condition.
>
>
>Buyers have SEVEN DAYS to determine the health of the animal, or the
>animal may be returned to, "Upstate Exotics", in good condition, for a
>FULL REFUND, INCLUDING THE SHIPPING COSTS BACK TO US!!
>
>
>The first 24 hours are for "Buyer's Remorse", (that includes mis-sexed
>animals), the next SIX DAYS are for HEALTH REASONS ONLY!
>
>
>We will require a mandatory Vet report, stating (IN PLAIN ENGLISH) what

>the illness is, and HOW it was contracted! If it turns out it was our
>fault, "Upstate Exotics", will pay the Vet's Bill for the exam, also!
>
>
>If you have ANY questions regarding our guarantees, please contact us
>at the number above.
>
>
>Payment:
>
>
>
>Acceptable payments include.... PayPal, or call the store number
>(above) and give us your credit card number right over the phone!
>
>
>We accept the following credit cards: MasterCard, Visa, Discover and
>American Express.
>
>
>We expect payment in full before we ship. Deposits on animals are
>non-refundable.
>
>
>There are no Styrofoam-lined box charges, heat pack charges or packing
>charges for any animals purchased from, "Upstate Exotics".
>
>
>We will hold animals with payment/deposit for 30 days, unless otherwise

>previously discussed. If after 30 days full payment is not received
>and/or shipping is not paid, the animal will be restocked and
>deposit/payment will be lost and non-refundable.
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Robin Worth [mailto:[email protected]]
>Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 4:32 PM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: feedback 2
>
>
>
>And, BTW, Sal: I still have every email you ever sent me and I have
>reported you for fraud. I can prove it by those emails.
>
>NOW, fix what you messed up!
>
>Whiteblackbird
>
>
>
><html><DIV>
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>a
>gon_prv.gif"
>width=150 hbtype="img"> <FONT face="Arial Black, Geneva, Arial,
>Sans-serif" color=#000066 size=4>Mama CrowDragon</FONT><BR><BR><BR>
<DIV
>align=center><FONT face="Garamond, Times, Serif" color=#00cc33
>size=4><STRONG>The White Blackbird is so white that it cannot be seen,
>and
>the Black Blackbird is merely its shadow.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
><DIV></DIV> <DIV align=center><FONT face="Garamond, Times, Serif"
>color=#00cc33
>size=4><STRONG>----Jules
Renard</STRONG></FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></html>
>
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whiteblackbird · Jul 28, 2003

Well, not that it matters to you at Upstate Exotics, but Elphie died while I was posting those emails this afternoon. It's Monday, and I hadn't received him (assuming that he was male---you never did tell me) until last Tuesday. I had never had a snake before and am surprised at how attached to him I had already gotten. Thanks for the lesson. It's one I won't soon forget. I will do everything I can do to make sure that other people know what sort of "business people" you are.

I still have the little box you sent him in---shall I stuff him back in it and send him back to you so you will believe me when I say he's dead?

Stardust · Jul 28, 2003

Sorry to hear about your snake. Before you send that snake back perhaps you should take a picture of it and the box as well. I wouldnt sent all proof back to them before you keep proof for yourself.

Living Art Reptiles · Jul 28, 2003

Upstate Exotics.

Hi Robin
sorry about this negative experience and your loss. This is a company that does not care about the animals they sell. Nor due they care who they hurt along the way to obtaining their ultimate goal, money.

Thank you,
Tony.

The BoidSmith · Jul 28, 2003

Robin,

If possible please post pictures of the dead snake. Do you have anyway of attributing the death to something?

Regards.

Ophidiophile · Jul 28, 2003

I'm sorry for your loss. This company stinks. I also bought 2 baby yellow rats from them on Reptibid. They were regurging, a vet report found they were loaded with coccidia and though treated they have since both died.

Sal in typical juvenile manner, left negative feedback about me (I have never had negative feedback in my life either as a buyer or seller on multiple animal and other sites) simply because I left negative feedback about him stating the facts of the case. In his feedback he said that (1) the snakes were never said to be c.b. and (2) he never said he'd agreed to send me 2 females.

Well I saved the ad and it says:

"This bid is for TWO cb babies"

-I wonder what "cb" stands for ?

And in his email dated 6/13, Sal said:

"If you win the bid, I can make sure they are 2 females.

Thanks!!!

Sal & Alison Tornambene

Upstate Exotics
http://www.upstateexotics.com
[email protected]

Over my 30-something years keeping and breeding reptiles I've seen companies like this come and go. Hopefully these guys are on the way out.

Wilomn · Jul 28, 2003

Expecting honesty or integrity from sal and alison is sort of like expecting it from a politician. It would be really nice and just isn't going to happen. Sorry to hear about your losses. These guys REALLY SUCK!!!

And what is this nonsense about their son helping them "hole" the bag? Don't the bags back east have a big hole in the top of them like the ones out here do?

You guys are prime example of what NOT to do.

Wes Pollock

Living Art Reptiles · Jul 28, 2003

Upstate Exotics.

Hi Alison,
how are you? Well, you have another dead snake issue on your hands. I do not want to over shadow Robins situation. Do you care to address these blatant lies about you issuing my refund? While your at it and you ad more lies, please include my legal full name when stating you have given my rightful refund. Don't say our friend, he or him. The listed lies are the ones I can remember there might be some I missed.

1) First time you publicly lied was on 05/01/03. I submitted my public post on 04/30/03. I contacted Visa on 04/30/03.
(Quote) Upstate Exotic.
I did offer a refund to Tony if he chose not to wait for Corey to get back with us, and his refund was given.

2) Second posted lie pertaining to my refund was on 05/30/03.
(Quote) Upstate Exotics.
Then he emailed us wanting a refund.

We have already refunded his money.

3) Public lie number three pertaining to my refund.
(Quote) Upstate Exotics.
Our friend with the refund......who received the money well before his thread was started here......I don't even have to go there....but again, b/c we've been "WRONG" so many times before...it doesn't even matter what I say.

Again Alison keep the lies coming, just don't forget to use my full legal name in the same sentence when you state a refund was given. Thanks for your time and have a great evening.

Thank you,
Tony.

whiteblackbird · Jul 28, 2003

to Upstate: dead Elphie

To anyone who would like to see them: I'm not sure exactly how to attach the pics, but if you'll email me at [email protected] I'll send them to you directly.

And, yes, Upstate, I was happy with him at first. He was a beautiful snake. And I did point out that he was not a baby like I was promised. (Actually, not TWO babies.) Then he died before a week was out. I was also trying to be nice. You've heard of "nice," I'm sure. It's that thing you're not.

I still didn't get what I paid for. I'm tired of talking to you people at Upstate. You have proven yourselves time and again from what I see in this thread, and you're not going to change and you're not going to make things right with anyone. I just wish I'd found faunaclassifieds sooner so I wouldn't have had to watch my very first snake die.

Robin

gila7150 · Jul 28, 2003

Robin,
Sorry to hear that you had such a negative experience with your first snake. Unfortunately, you purchased it from some of the seediest people in the business. Yellow ratsnakes are great snakes and almost indestructable when they don't come from Upstate Exotics.
If you decide to give it another try, drop me an email and I can refer you to some reputable ratsnake breeders that will treat you right. Hopefully you won't let this experience steer you away from Elaphe or keeping herps in general.

whiteblackbird · Jul 28, 2003

Thanks.

I just want to say thank you so much to all the nice people who have expressed concern for my experience with Upstate. I really appreciate it deeply. Thank you for being here.

ms_terese · Jul 29, 2003

Photos

Robin emailed me the pictures of the dead snake and the box, and I am posting them in the thread for her.

Darin Chappell · Jul 29, 2003

Just in case anyone is interested in accuracy. I ran both of these pictures through a reliable measuring program. The snake was 31.986", the box was 9.87" long and 6.08" wide, and the bag was 4.94" by 4.95" (these last measurements of the box and the bag could be a LITTLE off, due to the angle of the shot, but not by much!).

So, did you really put two 32" snakes into a 5" x 5" snake bag?!?!? I don't think so.

Living Art Reptiles · Jul 29, 2003

Upstate Exotics.

Hi Alison,
How are you? You were asked on 05/01/03 by several people including my self to produce proof of my refund. Your last public post was dated 06/17/03 in which you publicly lied about my refund being issued. You have yet to produce a photo copy of any proof of a refund. You have yet to even submit a confirmation number. Why hadn't you supplied this simple information to date, because you're a consistent liar? You had gotten away so long with ripping people off that when it came to me you thought oh well he's just one more. How did you so eloquently put your foot in you mouth?

Upstate Exotics.
he's not just some Joe Schmoe who has bought something over the interenet.

This thread is going to keep catching you in the rear end. Any one who has been following you and your little sagas know your stories are full of holes and your bucket holds very little water if any.

So Alison Quit all your good guy post which are either comical or the kiss of death for some and just send me my refund. Thanks so much and have a great evening.

Thank you,
Tony.

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