Urine Test

[SPJ]

THE JOB - URINE TEST

Like most folks in this country, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck in my case, I am required to pass a random urine test (with which I have no problem). What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test.
So, here is my Question: Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them?
Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their ass - doing drugs, while I work. . . Can you imagine how much money each state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check?
I guess we could title that program, 'Urine or You're Out'.

 

[akaangela]

You know I think that is a great idea! Think of all the money that would be saved. It is also true that most jobs require a test if you want a job, so those that can't pass are not really looking for a job. What do you think the chances are of getting it passed into law??????

 

[SamanthaJane13]

Contrary to popular belief, not ALL public assistance recipients use drugs and alcohol.

And if I get Medicaid, food stamps or heating assistance, why should I have to pee in a cup?

It's bad enough that I have to spend 3 to 4 hours to get a new benefit ID card because it snapped in half.

You wait in line at a window to get a form for a new card.

You fill out the form and stand in line to turn it in, and are sent to ANOTHER window to be finger-printed.

Then you stand in line at ANOTHER window to get a mug-shot snapped.

Then you WAIT.

Eventually, they call you to ANOTHER window to sign your card...and you wait AGAIN to have it CHECKED.

Some time later, they call you to yet ANOTHER window to give the card to you.

And all this time...there are 2 to 3 people manning these many windows. They just step up to whatever window has a line at it.

It makes the DMV look like a supermarket express line.

That's my afternoon plan today.

And I'm on SSI-NOT public assistance!!! But I have to go through the same ordeal.

If they make pee tests mandatory for benefits, it won't just be for public assistance checks...they'll make every single person who needs ANYTHING through Social Services take them, too.

 

[polasian]

It's bad enough that I have to spend 3 to 4 hours to get a new benefit ID card because it snapped in half.

You wait in line at a window to get a form for a new card.

You fill out the form and stand in line to turn it in, and are sent to ANOTHER window to be finger-printed.

Then you stand in line at ANOTHER window to get a mug-shot snapped.

Then you WAIT.

Eventually, they call you to ANOTHER window to sign your card...and you wait AGAIN to have it CHECKED.

Some time later, they call you to yet ANOTHER window to give the card to you.

And all this time...there are 2 to 3 people manning these many windows. They just step up to whatever window has a line at it.

It makes the DMV look like a supermarket express line.

That's my afternoon plan today.

After reading the OP's post I thought the logistics of such a thing would be a nightmare...however, you've just convinced me that it could actually work. They can pass out water while you wait in line...by the end of the day everyone would have provided a urine sample.

If they make pee tests mandatory for benefits, it won't just be for public assistance checks...they'll make every single person who needs ANYTHING through Social Services take them, too.

Can you imagine how much money each state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check?

The amount of additional tax dollars that would be needed to implement a "Urine or You're Out" program would probably outweigh the financial gains of weeding out the relatively few freeloaders.

 

[DAND]

THE JOB - URINE TEST

Like most folks in this country, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck in my case, I am required to pass a random urine test (with which I have no problem). What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test.
So, here is my Question: Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them?
Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their ass - doing drugs, while I work. . . Can you imagine how much money each state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check?
I guess we could title that program, 'Urine or You're Out'.

A friend of mine is a nurse and she has a few patients that receive some sort of government benefits and she recently told me she heard from one of them (true or not) that they are or are going to be drug testing for those on disability. I don't know if that is true for Welfare as well but either way I agree that testing should be done. Don't pass the Wiz Quiz and you don't get your check.

 

[SamanthaJane13]

After reading the OP's post I thought the logistics of such a thing would be a nightmare...however, you've just convinced me that it could actually work. They can pass out water while you wait in line...by the end of the day everyone would have provided a urine sample.

That would be great, except they only allow baby formula in baby bottles.

No other food or drinks.

The amount of additional tax dollars that would be needed to implement a "Urine or You're Out" program would probably outweigh the financial gains of weeding out the relatively few freeloaders.

They would have to have someone escort every applicant into a bathroom stall to observe them taking a leak, someone to process the urine test, someone to read it, etc.

Social service workers aren't qualified to do lab work, and it pays a whole lot more to employ someone to do that than they would save.

Also-think about this-

For every single person who would like this plan implemented, I can see that same people having a USDA Prime conniption fit if their elderly mom and dad fell on hard times and had to be subjected to this whole process-including the mug-shots and finger prints-if those parents fell on hard times in their lives and needed assistance.

We're ALL human beings...but Soc. Ser. doesn't treat ANYONE that way.

I got down there today, logged in to see my case worker so she could give me a paper to take one floor up to get my card...and I was the only one waiting.

It took them 35 minutes to call my name for her to ask what I needed.

Then another 20 minutes for her to reappear with the paper. She must have run to OfficeMax for paper and printer ink...yeah-that's the ticket!!

Then I went up to the 4th floor to begin the process of different lines and waiting and filling out MORE damned forms.

Mug-shot.

Finger prints.

They finally gave me a temporary card until I get my new card in the mail in 6 to 8 weeks...'cause they're back-logged.

With the economy the way it is, and jobs few and far between, do you want to go through that crap??

Your parents?? Your kids??

And you want to add PISS TESTS???

This isn't Central Booking at the local cop station!!

It USED to be called HUMAN SERVICES.

 

[polasian]

That would be great, except they only allow baby formula in baby bottles.

No other food or drinks.

*note to self, from now on remember to type "just kidding" instead of a raspberry smiley*

As far as the rest of my post...I was agreeing with you Donna.

 

[akaangela]

I think it should be a random testing. Say you KNOW on paydays you have a chance of getting picked, and then say everyone with the SSN ending in 9 gets to pee for their money. I am not saying everyone on assistance are low lifes but when you are down it is a lot easier to fall into doing drugs. I doubt it will ever happen but it would keep the clean people clean and wash out the ones taking advantage.

 

[SamanthaJane13]

*note to self, from now on remember to type "just kidding" instead of a raspberry smiley*

As far as the rest of my post...I was agreeing with you Donna.

No problem, Nick!!!

I was just expounding on my lovely afternoon and the half-assed way things work here.

As for the food and water ban in the building??

They've received BOMB THREATS...can't imagine why, with all the dignity they afford their clients. The evil explosive juice box or pack if animal crackers to keep the kids busy are BANNED.

The one water fountain that's accessible to the public in on the 1st floor of of a 10 floor building-along with the only public access crappers.

They still have the "corral chute" ropes to keep people in line like cattle, and you have to stand behind the line on the floor till you're called, or the Sheriff throws you out or takes you to the County Holding Center for God only knows what.

I've seen people being hauled out, so I know it happens.

They have nobody in the building who will even answer questions, so even if it's as simple on, like-"What's my caseworker's name and phone number?", you have to go Downtown and stand in line for an hour or more.

 

[garweft]

Tell me you didn't just complain about needing to wait a couple hours to get months worth of support.

Try standing behind a cash register for four hours at wally world, getting bitched at by people who haven't worked a day in their life, just so you can earn enough money for a pack of cigarettes and maybe a value meal from mickey D's.

I can't wait to show my father in law this. He worked in a coal mine for years, and I'm sure he'd like to hear how bad you need to suffer to get some free medical insurance.

 

[sschind]

First of all Steve I think a lot of people would agree with your sentiments. I also think most people would agree that implementing such a procedure would not be practical. Its not a bad idea in theory but practically, I doubt it would work.

As other have pointed out, the additional costs would most likely outweigh the savings although some people may feel that it would be worth it to keep the druggies of the dole. On the other hand, they could hire more people to administer the tests and that would create jobs wouldn't it. It reminds me of an old "Wizard of Id" strip. There was a line outside the unemployment office waiting for their checks. The king tells Rodney "do something to speed up these payments" Rodney goes out and hangs a HELP WANTED sign outside the door underneath the sign that says UNEMPLOYMENT OFFICE.

Another reason it would never fly is that the ACLU and other organizations simply would not stand for it. I could see some small agencies implementing something of the sort on a small scale but nothing as widespread as you have proposed and I also wouldn't expect such implementation to go unchallenged in court.

Donna- No one is saying that all public assistant recipients are druggies. To counter that though I would point out that not all people who are working are druggies either. I see no difference in the two population in this regard. Why should one set of the population be treated any differently than any other. For me to get paid I have to pee in a cup. For you to get paid why shouldn't you. (I'm saying you in a general sense not you specifically and I'm talking about this one small idea here, I realize that people are treated differently every single day and I know life is not fair) Also, I'm sure it is not your intention but I doubt you are going to garner any sympathy by telling what you have to go through to get your replacement card. I'm sure a lot of people who read your post were thinking "so she is going to miss Dr. Phil big deal" Again, that was not aimed at you specifically but rather used to make a point about a widespread image of many people on public assistance. In other words, "So it takes her all afternoon, what else does she have to do" I do understand that many people do have better things to do but the fact is, many don't. The sad thing is that it is a very poor picture of the way our government handles things like this. The people working their are not held accountable so why should they work any harder.

Like Steve, I have no problem helping others get back on their feet but I do agree with him that seeing some people take every advantage whether they should be entitled to it or not is just wrong. Its the corruption and waste in the system that upsets me more than anything

Finally, I love the name you proposed for the program Steve.

 

[polasian]

I can't wait to show my father in law this. He worked in a coal mine for years, and I'm sure he'd like to hear how bad you need to suffer to get some free medical insurance.

The OP is touching on the fact that the system sucks (from one point of view), and so is Donna (from another point of view). Is her beef too petty for you and dad? If that place gets bomb threats...then her gripe is valid (because its obviously a concern shared by others). Aside from the financial downfalls of this idea, Donna is pointing out how demeaning it would be (you know, for that petty and unimportant human aspect ). Couple the bureaucratic nonsense with being handed a cup...and the will really hit the bricks. You can laugh at this all you want...until (God forbid) you find yourself holding ticket number 882.

First of all Steve I think a lot of people would agree with your sentiments. I also think most people would agree that implementing such a procedure would not be practical.

I agree that everything can be improved upon...and that the Wiz Quiz (I like that one better ) probably wouldn't work.

On the other hand, they could hire more people to administer the tests and that would create jobs wouldn't it. It reminds me of an old "Wizard of Id" strip. There was a line outside the unemployment office waiting for their checks. The king tells Rodney "do something to speed up these payments" Rodney goes out and hangs a HELP WANTED sign outside the door underneath the sign that says UNEMPLOYMENT OFFICE.

Yes, It would create jobs (from "Cup Factory" workers to "Test Kit Factory" works to "Lab Techs" who run the tests to People handing out the cups, etc...) and these new jobs will birth new taxpayers. However we are talking about a potentially HUGE sum of money out of your and my pockets, to get this ball rolling. If there was some evidence that (lets say) one quarter of the individuals on public assistance were druggies, then the OP's proposal would be worth looking into. As it stands, however, I don't see how the new tax dollars and the money saved by weeding out druggies who get their benefits revoked, would be enough to cover the costs for such a program.

Another reason it would never fly is that the ACLU and other organizations simply would not stand for it. I could see some small agencies implementing something of the sort on a small scale but nothing as widespread as you have proposed and I also wouldn't expect such implementation to go unchallenged in court.

Donna- No one is saying that all public assistant recipients are druggies. To counter that though I would point out that not all people who are working are druggies either. I see no difference in the two population in this regard. Why should one set of the population be treated any differently than any other.

I agree, one demographic shouldn't be treated differently than the other (in this case). However, by requiring the public assistance recipients to submit to a urine test, we would be doing just that (treating people differently). Is there some mandatory country wide policy of urine testing for the work force? Absolutely not. Arguing for urine testing for one population while the other is exempt from it, makes this argument of fairness contradictory.

For me to get paid I have to pee in a cup. For you to get paid why shouldn't you. (I'm saying you in a general sense not you specifically and I'm talking about this one small idea here, I realize that people are treated differently every single day and I know life is not fair)

You answered your own question.

Like Steve, I have no problem helping others get back on their feet but I do agree with him that seeing some people take every advantage whether they should be entitled to it or not is just wrong. Its the corruption and waste in the system that upsets me more than anything.

I don't think anyone will disagree with that. Things are screwed up...they can be better, MUCH better. However, pissing in a cup would probably be nothing more than a costly branch off of the war against drugs. The cons will (most likely) outweigh the pros.

 

[Alex G]

THE JOB - URINE TEST

Like most folks in this country, I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order to get that paycheck in my case, I am required to pass a random urine test (with which I have no problem). What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who don't have to pass a urine test.
So, here is my Question: Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to get a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them?
Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their feet. I do, on the other hand, have a problem with helping someone sitting on their ass - doing drugs, while I work. . . Can you imagine how much money each state would save if people had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check?
I guess we could title that program, 'Urine or You're Out'.

I totally agree, and before anyone jumps down my throat... my mom got laid off when the real estate industry hit the fan two years ago, and hasn't been able to find work since. Her unemployment runs out in April, which happens to be when my great grandfather is coming to stay with us because he can't care for himself anymore. When I got my first job and a steady paycheck, I peed in a cup. I didn't feel it was demeaning at all and if you do, I'm sorry, but you need to man the hell up. It's five seconds of your life that you might have to have someone witness you pee, so that you can have income for the month or year. Boo hoo, Mary. I pay taxes not so that this guy Josh from my high school who's too zoned out on acid all the time to hold down work can get free money, but so people like my mom who are down on their luck and need a boost to get back on their feet have help.

Contrary to popular belief, not ALL public assistance recipients use drugs and alcohol.

And if I get Medicaid, food stamps or heating assistance, why should I have to pee in a cup?

It's bad enough that I have to spend 3 to 4 hours to get a new benefit ID card because it snapped in half.

You wait in line at a window to get a form for a new card.

You fill out the form and stand in line to turn it in, and are sent to ANOTHER window to be finger-printed.

Then you stand in line at ANOTHER window to get a mug-shot snapped.

Then you WAIT.

Eventually, they call you to ANOTHER window to sign your card...and you wait AGAIN to have it CHECKED.

Some time later, they call you to yet ANOTHER window to give the card to you.

And all this time...there are 2 to 3 people manning these many windows. They just step up to whatever window has a line at it.

It makes the DMV look like a supermarket express line.

That's my afternoon plan today.

And I'm on SSI-NOT public assistance!!! But I have to go through the same ordeal.

If they make pee tests mandatory for benefits, it won't just be for public assistance checks...they'll make every single person who needs ANYTHING through Social Services take them, too.

Tell me you didn't just complain about needing to wait a couple hours to get months worth of support.

Try standing behind a cash register for four hours at wally world, getting bitched at by people who haven't worked a day in their life, just so you can earn enough money for a pack of cigarettes and maybe a value meal from mickey D's.

I can't wait to show my father in law this. He worked in a coal mine for years, and I'm sure he'd like to hear how bad you need to suffer to get some free medical insurance.

No kidding... 3-4 hours of tedious lines to make up for 80 hours or so of work that you couldn't get that month. I'm sure the working world is crying their eyes out at the sad struggle you went through to get your replacement card.

 

[SamanthaJane13]

Tell me you didn't just complain about needing to wait a couple hours to get months worth of support.

Try standing behind a cash register for four hours at wally world, getting bitched at by people who haven't worked a day in their life, just so you can earn enough money for a pack of cigarettes and maybe a value meal from mickey D's.

I can't wait to show my father in law this. He worked in a coal mine for years, and I'm sure he'd like to hear how bad you need to suffer to get some free medical insurance.

As an SSI recipient, food stamps are part of the package.

I'm complaining about the way the system treats the people with absolutely NO dignity.

I do think that SOME people abuse the system, like the moms who crank out baby after baby while on public assistance, and those who sell their benefits to buy drugs, but if you really knew how little we get, cash and food wise, you'd cringe and wonder how we make it week to week, let along month to month.

I don't understand how anyone on public assistance OR SSI can afford to abuse drugs. I can hardly keep food in the fridge for my daughter and I, plus gas my 15 year old car.

And I don't have a new car, a wide screen high-def tv, gaming system or even cable, but I know those who do, and they get it by cheating the system.

I think THOSE people need to have an unannounced yearly home inspection, and if they can't explain all the high-cost toys, they should have the stuff confiscated.

As for the urine test, those on benefits usually get Medicaid, so make blood and hair analysis part of the physical for the recipients.

They are much more specific than urine tests.

I'd rather have my doctor collect the samples and have them run by a certified lab, than some flunky file pusher at Social Services who's unqualified to do that work in the real world.

And along with the samples the doctor would have to attach list of all meds they've prescribed the patient, so that the 10 days of Loratab after a surgical procedure would be documented, and the patient couldn't be accused of being hooked on hydrocodone, because the hair sample would indicate how much of the meds were taken, and for how long.

The urine test is mighty big net to throw, and a lot of innocent people would be caught up in it, along with the bad guys.

 

[shrap]

I personally feel these kinds of tests are blatant violations of the 4th Amendment.

 

[shrap]

I think THEY need to have an unannounced yearly home inspection, and if they can't explain all the high-cost toys, they should have the stuff confiscated.

Fortunately we live in a country where THEY cant do that.

 

[SamanthaJane13]

But if they keep making new riles for the recipients, it just might be added.

This country is becoming a police-state.

BIG BROTHER is watching...and he wants your pee...

 

[shrap]

BIG BROTHER is watching...and he wants your pee...

Oh I will happily give BIG BROTHER my pee. He just wont be getting it via a cup....

 

[WebSlave]

Hmm, if jobs in areas that are non-critical to the national security of this country are requiring employees to pass urine tests, well shouldn't this policy be implemented in those areas where national security is a DEFINITE issue? For instance, say, Congress and even the White House? Let's face it, wouldn't you feel a whole lot better knowing that those people who can throw this country into war or economic chaos AREN'T doing so while under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Even though they often certainly ACT like they are?

Of course, guess who would be asked to VOTE for such a requirement......

 

[SamanthaJane13]

Hmm, if jobs in areas that are non-critical to the national security of this country are requiring employees to pass urine tests, well shouldn't this policy be implemented in those areas where national security is a DEFINITE issue? For instance, say, Congress and even the White House? Let's face it, wouldn't you feel a whole lot better knowing that those people who can throw this country into war or economic chaos AREN'T doing so while under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Even though they often certainly ACT like they are?

Of course, guess who would be asked to VOTE for such a requirement......

Bravo!!!

Well said, Grand Pooh-bah!!!