Info US GLOBAL EXOTICS SPCA RAID

[kmarsh]

Why is anyone saying that because they are united against us, we have to unite with people who are as low down and scummish as US Global? This makes no sense to me and for once it'd be nice if people could just admit that someone screwed up and not try to talk about conspiracy theories.

Its called CHOICE and OPINION. Each and everyone of us is entitled to beleive what we wish to beleive and to form the opinion that we feel is more correct to what we all see and feel is the truth. YOU choose to beleive the media and all of that while others of us beleive what we have seen peta and their kind do to others that keep animals, wear animals and eat animals. You get to choose what you beleive and have your opinion and the rest of us get to do the same. It doesn't make evil of either of us but it seems that some are of the idea that their beleif is the only one that matters. NOT TRUE. It would also be "nice" if people could realize that others people are just as entitled to their opinions as YOU are.

 

[brd7666]

Its called CHOICE and OPINION. Each and everyone of us is entitled to beleive what we wish to beleive and to form the opinion that we feel is more correct to what we all see and feel is the truth. YOU choose to beleive the media and all of that while others of us beleive what we have seen peta and their kind do to others that keep animals, wear animals and eat animals. You get to choose what you beleive and have your opinion and the rest of us get to do the same. It doesn't make evil of either of us but it seems that some are of the idea that their beleif is the only one that matters. NOT TRUE. It would also be "nice" if people could realize that others people are just as entitled to their opinions as YOU are.

 

[Magic Merlin]

Its called CHOICE and OPINION. Each and everyone of us is entitled to beleive what we wish to beleive and to form the opinion that we feel is more correct to what we all see and feel is the truth.

Wow......this is shocking......please, everyone, let's just ignore the facts and only concentrate on our own agenda based on deluded fantasy. I think we are currently in 2 wars because of this line of thinking.......you guys are making it way too easy for PETA.

Personally, I think we need to take away PETA's ammo and create our own governing enitity, made up of reptile keepers, to impose guidelines and penalties within our industry......."if it is to be, then it is up to me".....this needs to be everyone's motto......we need to be proactive to protect our hobby and especially protect the animals within it.

 

[Matt K]

Good grief- how long can a thread go before it becomes productive information....

Observation: ... funny how that ch11 video showed conditions that looked EXACTLY like it was set up at USG the time I was there several months ago..

But to reiterate to those of you who who have not really thought about the grand scheme of things (some of you obviously have, I am not singling anyone out here)... this is about who can take things away from you without much to stand on other than thier opinion and it somehow not be considered theft by an organization of your animals or belongings. USglobal may have taken great care of many things, and horrible care of some things, but REGARDLESS of how they cared for thier livestock, the were not breaking any laws, per se or otherwise. Its that fine line that gets crossed when one person or organization that decides someone like 'albinoball' is a bad person, and then whatever livestock albinoball owns is seized and given away under the precept that he cannot care for his animals "correctly" because a few local people disagree with him. As stated before, this can happen to anyone who has any animals now, not just dealers like USGlobal because of the precedence set here. Get it?
Its about YOU losing your rights- not USG being in the wrong or not. Nobody is siding with "the low down and scummish ", its the facts of the matter- now the people who are the most upstanding and respectable are in the same category as "the scummish" and we share a problem, like it or not.

 

[Matt K]

Wow......this is shocking......please, everyone, let's just ignore the facts and only concentrate on our own agenda based on deluded fantasy. I think we are currently in 2 wars because of this line of thinking.......you guys are making it way too easy for PETA.

Personally, I think we need to take away PETA's ammo and create our own governing enitity, made up of reptile keepers, to impose guidelines and penalties within our industry......."if it is to be, then it is up to me".....this needs to be everyone's motto......we need to be proactive to protect our hobby and especially protect the animals within it.

Uh, I assume you are paraphrasing one of my previous posts? But thanks for reiterating that for me.

 

[brd7666]

The people who are a part of these animal rights groups are extremests.

They are similar to the religious extremests like Al Qaida and the Taliban.

The only thing is that the animal rights people aren't killing people, but they have and will kill animals if it suits their needs. This whole raid at Global wasn't even about the conditions of the animals, it's about taking your rights away from you so you can't have any animals, not just reptiles. The Global raid was a tool for them to accomplish their ultimate goal. These people don't want you to own animals, period, so by bringing these conditions to the public it helps to form a negitive opinion in the general publics minds. Whenever the general public has enough of something, they want to put an end to it. Reptiles are an easy target for them because the majority of the people don't like reptiles.

They really don't care about the animals that were taken in the raid, what they wanted was the NEGATIVE PUBLICITY, and that is just what they got. An animal rights person would do anything to further their cause, including the planting of evidence, tampering with evidence, falsifing evidence, dramatizing, manipulating, over reacting, under reacting, in this case, neglicting animals, and making conditions seem worse then they really were.

The animals for example that were missing a leg. If these are rodents they can be used as feeders, and that would actually save a healthy animal because it isn't going to be used as a feeder. When you see those, how do you know they didn't arrive at Global already like that? In which case, what could Global do with them? You can't help them with a vet, so maybe they were being used as feeders. Using an injured animal for a feeder would keep a healthy animal from being used, after all, something has to be a feeder, does it not?

An Al Qaida extemest will do anything to further their cause. Some of them will actually strap twenty pounds of dynomite to themselves and blow themselves up in a crowd of people. They do this all in the name of God. They believe they are fighting for their God and he is going to reward them for killing people. That is pretty far out there.

These animals rights people are far out there also. They will do whatever it takes. They would easily sacrifice animals like the ones at Global because in their minds if they sacrifice a few it will save the countless animals that are not yet pets and not even born yet.

Any person who is an animal owner and wants to keep animal that sides with any animal rights group is defeating themselves. I didn't say that you had to like the people at Global, but they are still your allies, not your enemy. The enemy is the animal rights groups.

Pictures, videos, and tape recordings can all be manipulated to make any situation look differently then it really is.

If you weren't at Global then you did not see things first hand. What you saw is what an animals rights person put together to make things look as bad as possible to further their cause. If you think all of the pictures, videos, and tape recordings are from an unbiased point of view, you had better guess again.

What people need to do now is look out for one another. This raid was not the first and it won't be the last.

My advise is join USARK and that will help all of us. I believe they are doing the most for us.

2 cents again

 

[Ken Foose]

Brian, I agree with you almost 100% on everything you posted, with very few execptions. I can tell you what they do with the hedgehogs with the missing feet. They don't use them as feeders. They sold them to their customers. PETA and HSUS are the enemy. They will do whatever they can to keep all animals out of human control. But at the same time, it was Global that opened the door for them in this case. Global brought this down upon themselves, and thus upon us. But at the same time, if not Global, it would have been another. The Animal Rights people are not going to stop, ever. Anyone who thinks that they will leave you alone just because you care for your animals perfectly, and they live long, healthy and happy lives is a fool. They will pick off the worse cases first, and then they will work their way up to you and me. It's HSUS that's behind the python ban. They see an opening, and they push it, hard. Global gave them such an opening, and now look where we are. We are all in danger, but then again, we always have been. So, as much as I'm opposed to AR, I can say with all honesty that I believe Global up and now the rest of us will pay for their up. I'm not weeping for Jason. I'm more worried about the rest of us. I think Global is getting what they deserve, but it's not just them that's going to pay for it down the road. We must fight Animal Rights fanatics every way we can. If we don't, the will run over us. You can believe what you like about Global (they were set up, it's all a mistake, it's all fabricated), but the fact remains that they screwed up and got caught by the enemy. All I know is I still have a few of those 3 legged Hedgehog they sent me. They are a bit wobbly, but they are doing fine and will make good breeders. I spent about $400 each on them, so I have to keep them now.

 

[Magic Merlin]

This is soo simple.......comes down to cold hard cash.......create our own organization that is better funded than PETA to payoff the special interests in Washington....problem solved....now let's make it happen....who are we going to put as the face for our cause.....may I suggest Ellen DeGeneris, she is very passionate and charismatic when it comes to animal rights.

 

[SERPENTS DEN]

This is soo simple.......comes down to cold hard cash.......create our own organization that is better funded than PETA to payoff the special interests in Washington....problem solved....now let's make it happen....who are we going to put as the face for our cause.....may I suggest Ellen DeGeneris, she is very passionate and charismatic when it comes to animal rights.

An organization in the reptile industry that will be better funded than PETA, HSUS or SPCA will never happen unfortunately. So we need a better plan on how to fight these organizations that won't cost much money.

 

[brd7666]

An organization in the reptile industry that will be better funded than PETA, HSUS or SPCA will never happen unfortunately. So we need a better plan on how to fight these organizations that won't cost much money.

You are correct. We are the minority.

It is my opinion that USARK is doing the most for us. If you are not a member then you should join. Right now they are trying to fight a bill that is trying to be passed in Georgia. Also, USARK has already hired a lobbiest to help us.

www.usark.org is the site. Join today.

<a href="http://usark.org/join.php"><img src="http://usark.org/banners/usark_KS1.jpg" border=0></a>

 

[MiamiExotics]

From a perspective of someone who knows what he is looking at.
Alot of the "dead" animals in pics were in ziplocks, or frozen looking.
They simply went in to the freezer and started taking pictures. These pictures are for their agenda, but the original purpose of the animals in the freezer is proof for their suppliers that the animal indeed died, and thus to get credit. Animals arrive dead, even if they were packed perfect, were 100% healthy in before shipping. Either way, doesnt matter. Just another point of view.

There is no excuse to NEGLECT animals. But we all have to admit, this is a huge exxagerration of things. Certainly somethings did occur, but we can all agree, that it was multiplied hundred times over.

People demand imports, imports DRIVE the business. Be you a ball breeder, or a hobbyist.
How many times have you heard a big breeder start off saying, I bought a iguana in a pet store and it all went from there? Almost every one of them!

There is so misinformation in these threads it is crazy! Not even talking about Global in itself, if they did this or that, just everyones different thoughts on imports.

We are not in the 1970;s anymore were it was 2 for 1 imports or more.
Nowadays, almost every exporter has been in it for decades. They know nowadays they dont get PAID for bad animals. I have seen shipments almost daily for the last 5 years and can say this: Anything DEAD is due to airlines, or just a weak animal to begin with(house gecko, frog, etc). Not becuase it was kept crappy before shipping, nor becuase of bad packing, or the like. Becuase it simply was a weak animal.
The only times I have seen bad shipments of imports is when the shipment is delayed due to AIRLINE error or USFWS . Airline leaves it on tarmac even though box has been clearly marked NO SUN no XRAY, or they freeze it by leaving it outside in transit.
USFWS I have personally seen inspect a shipment, take the bags off the sides of the container and inspect them, then pile up up back in the box on top of each other. Every chameleon was alive upon inspection, but once at destination was opened to find the bottom ones were dead. Takes a while for the entire shipment to be cleared, and for them to release it.
I have even seen them refuse a shipment, someone forgot to stamp a paper, and send it back two weeks later without letting anyone take care of it or unpack it in the meantime!!!

 

[kmarsh]

Thank You Michael for some insight on these issues. Most of us have no idea how all this works nor the problems that can be associated with the shipments. AS to the other post about US ARK they are a great organization to join that is working in all the states to help with these bans as well as the national issues as well. They are and have been working here in GA and met with us at the Repticon show, they were at the capital on Monday about this law they are trying to kill us here with, they have asked us to be back at the capital on Wednesday since they are trying to push this bill through so quickly. ANYONE in GA that wants to keep your reptiles should be at the capital office building on Feb. 3 at 2:00 numbers talk. ITs the big snakes that are on the hot seat but if that proves profitable to the goverment all snakes and more will be permitted for fees and penalties if you dont comply.

 

[spawn]

I know Jason's suggestion to have Ellen champion our cause was a joke (those of us uniting behind the would-be-cause now, not the dolts who came here to say importing is bad and our 'current bloodlines [are fine]"), but I think it would be a good try. She's got a lot of money to throw around, and she and her wife are huge animal lovers. She reads a lot of fan mail on the air on her show, which would make me think she reads ten times that amount in the comfort of her office or one of her producers sifts through things to see what's interesting and what isn't.

I think a few well-written letters to her would be prompting to her. Not sure what I would suggest, be it an indepedent body that regulared care for importers or what-have-you. But celebrities like her are often in the market for something to get behind that is either not too political but supports those in dire need, or on the other side of the scale....something that is very politically fueled in nature. As far as I can remember, a very very few number of her celebrity guests publicly back PETA. The idea would be to get her to start fundng an organization, 501(c3) in nature, that would combat PETA either at a State or local community level, and perhaps work with the SPCA. As it is, PETA is feeding the SPCA too much money, and maybe this can draw some of the money PETA has to work with and funnel it somewhere useful.

 

[KelliH]

I know Jason's suggestion to have Ellen champion our cause was a joke (those of us uniting behind the would-be-cause now, not the dolts who came here to say importing is bad and our 'current bloodlines [are fine]"), but I think it would be a good try. She's got a lot of money to throw around, and she and her wife are huge animal lovers. She reads a lot of fan mail on the air on her show, which would make me think she reads ten times that amount in the comfort of her office or one of her producers sifts through things to see what's interesting and what isn't.

I think a few well-written letters to her would be prompting to her. Not sure what I would suggest, be it an indepedent body that regulared care for importers or what-have-you. But celebrities like her are often in the market for something to get behind that is either not too political but supports those in dire need, or on the other side of the scale....something that is very politically fueled in nature. As far as I can remember, a very very few number of her celebrity guests publicly back PETA. The idea would be to get her to start fundng an organization, 501(c3) in nature, that would combat PETA either at a State or local community level, and perhaps work with the SPCA. As it is, PETA is feeding the SPCA too much money, and maybe this can draw some of the money PETA has to work with and funnel it somewhere useful.

Considering Ellen Degenres is a member of PETA and in fact was named PETA's "Woman of the Year" last year, I would think twice before making contact with her regarding any of this.

 

[Magic Merlin]

I know Jason's suggestion to have Ellen champion our cause was a joke (those of us uniting behind the would-be-cause now, not the dolts who came here to say importing is bad and our 'current bloodlines [are fine]"), but I think it would be a good try. She's got a lot of money to throw around, and she and her wife are huge animal lovers. She reads a lot of fan mail on the air on her show, which would make me think she reads ten times that amount in the comfort of her office or one of her producers sifts through things to see what's interesting and what isn't.

I think a few well-written letters to her would be prompting to her. Not sure what I would suggest, be it an indepedent body that regulared care for importers or what-have-you. But celebrities like her are often in the market for something to get behind that is either not too political but supports those in dire need, or on the other side of the scale....something that is very politically fueled in nature. As far as I can remember, a very very few number of her celebrity guests publicly back PETA. The idea would be to get her to start fundng an organization, 501(c3) in nature, that would combat PETA either at a State or local community level, and perhaps work with the SPCA. As it is, PETA is feeding the SPCA too much money, and maybe this can draw some of the money PETA has to work with and funnel it somewhere useful.

DUDE!!!!.....how can you say it was a joke and then go on to give a great description of how it can work? You layed it out perfectly. I say importing wild caught, in its current form, is bad because of the huge deathrates. As for being satisfied with the bloodlines you already have.....my point was to enrich your bloodlines with new stock from breeders in other countries.

Let's keep the ideas for a viable solution coming.

 

[Magic Merlin]

Considering Ellen Degenres is a member of PETA and in fact was named PETA's "Woman of the Year" last year, I would think twice before making contact with her regarding any of this.

Enlightenment may sway Ellen's loyalties......besides, their are many high profile individuals that could be potential spokespeople.

 

[Ken Foose]

A thought about imports. In some areas of their range, the Green Iguana would be extinct now if it were not for imports. The same can be said about many commonly imported animals, especially reptiles. Most people in 3rd world countries don't treasure their reptiles, they fear them or eat them. But the incentive to collect or "farm" reptiles is there thanks to imports. Imports are what slow down habitat destruction and casual killing of herps. If the locals are making money collecting animals for the pet trade, they will do all they can to preserve the habitat and the ecosystems they foster. Yes, there are losses when imported, and perhaps this needs to be addressed. But to call for the complete ban on imports is foolish at least and possibly destructive at worse. Leopard Geckos were well established as a captive bred staple in the US long before the geckos with the genetics for albino were imported. New animals are needed to fuel our industry. Without imports, I believe we would have already lost a lot of animals that we still have around now. These are my thoughts on the subject.

 

[aleria]

A thought about imports. In some areas of their range, the Green Iguana would be extinct now if it were not for imports. The same can be said about many commonly imported animals, especially reptiles. Most people in 3rd world countries don't treasure their reptiles, they fear them or eat them. But the incentive to collect or "farm" reptiles is there thanks to imports. Imports are what slow down habitat destruction and casual killing of herps. If the locals are making money collecting animals for the pet trade, they will do all they can to preserve the habitat and the ecosystems they foster. Yes, there are losses when imported, and perhaps this needs to be addressed. But to call for the complete ban on imports is foolish at least and possibly destructive at worse. Leopard Geckos were well established as a captive bred staple in the US long before the geckos with the genetics for albino were imported. New animals are needed to fuel our industry. Without imports, I believe we would have already lost a lot of animals that we still have around now. These are my thoughts on the subject.

Very well put, and I'd have to say that's probably one side of it that a lot of us haven't considered. Yes the animals are being imported into this country and you do run into the type of things that we have all seen with this global exotics issue. But on the flip side, if the animals weren't being shipped over here to become pets or breeders, then they would most likely be either eaten or just destroyed by locals as they are seen as pests to them and not something they want to keep around. Which, as mentioned, means that they are more likely to try to preserve the habitat that these particular species thrive in, so they will have no trouble picking out plenty live specimens to ship overseas.

 

[royallymorphed]

i was always under the impression most losses were in transit.

I was also under the impression that if the pet import trade never existed, a lot of these animals that are now worth money to a country, would face extinction, or used more as meat. So in other words, because these animals are actually valuable to the exporter in these poorer countries, they are treated as such... which for me has to be only a good thing. Unfortunately there's always some bad with some good.

 

[royallymorphed]

That should read...

Because these animals are more valuable alive than dead to an exporter in these poorer countries, they are treated as such.....