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USARK & Reptile Nation Save 5 of 9 species from FWS Constrictor Rule!

Please excuse any ignorance in this question but this ruling includes Royal/Ball Pythons in the North African Pythons, right?

Terri

to clarify this, in the link from the FWS letter it states
"The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) is amending its regulations under the Lacey Act to add Python molurus (which includes Burmese python Python molurus bivittatus and Indian python Python molurus molurus), Northern African python (Python sebae), Southern African python (Python natalensis), and yellow anaconda (Eunectes notaeus) to the list of injurious reptiles."
 
This is not a win by any means. We lost. We lost 4 species and I'm sure some folks lost their business because of this. This was a Flordia problem... not a national problem and now the nation has to suffer because a state can't handle their own problems.
 
Well USARK, we asked to hear from you. Are you going to respond?

In the mean time, wrap your eyes around this. Is this the REAL reason behind this ban? We all know that our fascist government is all about big money...

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jun/25/nation/na-everglades25

http://washingtonindependent.com/10...ers-foot-bill-for-everglades-ethanol-research

http://rightwingnews.com/mt331/2008/06/qa_friday_91_big_sugar_and_the.php


What say you to that USARK? Did our money really go to actually fight this, or did it simply go to putting on a show for those of us that trusted you? I find it simply amazing that this hits the news as soon as the python ban was ruled upon.

Come on now. You are quick to show up when money is being tossed your way, how about showing up to answer some questions that won't send money your way.
 
it's only been 2 days, I would think it takes time for them to formulate and verify their plan of action before making any announcements? I could be wrong, but I am patiently waiting
 
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the sad truth of the matter is..we will probably lose all snakes, and not for what USARK did or didnt do...but because of everything I see going on here...finger pointing at each other, instead of trying to figure out what we CAN do, we're to busy with conspiracy theories and blaming this person or that person among our own ranks
 
Looks like USARK is putting updates on their facebook -

"While there is no doubt that saving Boa and Retic was huge for the sustainability of this industry... the fact remains that all of the things that were wrong with this rule making last week, are still wrong today. The "science" was produced from a fudged climate data set; and was inconclisive at best; making far flung projections on inaccurate data points. Second, due process under the Administra...tive Procedures Act and info quality standards seem to have been completely ignored by FWS, but was entered into the public record by USARK. Third, this still fixes nothing in the Everglades, but it will fund FWS and USGS scientists to the tune of tens to hundereds of millions of taxpayer $. And, thousands of Americans will be subject to felony prosecution if they transport listed snakes accross state lines. USARK is digesting what has occured and we will be exploring all legal remedy. Are you ready for a fight!"

"The ONLY thing that can change the Contrictor Rule is a federal lawsuit... It is FAR TOO LATE for all of the petitions I see floating around! We need to raise over $150K just to get started... Are you ready for a real fight?"
 

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I'd also like some clarification please...when the rules states interstate transportation and commerce...that means I cant sell or transport accross state line? But I can still sell or transport within the state?
 
Looks like USARK is putting updates on their facebook -

"While there is no doubt that saving Boa and Retic was huge for the sustainability of this industry... the fact remains that all of the things that were wrong with this rule making last week, are still wrong today. The "science" was produced from a fudged climate data set; and was inconclisive at best; making far flung projections on inaccurate data points. Second, due process under the Administra...tive Procedures Act and info quality standards seem to have been completely ignored by FWS, but was entered into the public record by USARK. Third, this still fixes nothing in the Everglades, but it will fund FWS and USGS scientists to the tune of tens to hundereds of millions of taxpayer $. And, thousands of Americans will be subject to felony prosecution if they transport listed snakes accross state lines. USARK is digesting what has occured and we will be exploring all legal remedy. Are you ready for a fight!"

"The ONLY thing that can change the Contrictor Rule is a federal lawsuit... It is FAR TOO LATE for all of the petitions I see floating around! We need to raise over $150K just to get started... Are you ready for a real fight?"

i like the part where they say they are going to need $100,000 in donation to start the fight. maybe if they wouldnt have wasted that $150,000 on lobbying that got us know where, like i said it wouldnt, they wouldn't $150,000 more. seriously wake up people.

two days ago they were claiming a victory. and they were met with some harsh criticisms from the industry, so know they're acting like we lost.
 
I'd also like some clarification please...when the rules states interstate transportation and commerce...that means I cant sell or transport accross state line? But I can still sell or transport within the state?

You can sell within your state but you cannot sell them to someone in a different state and if you move, you cannot take the animals with you.
 
maybe if they wouldnt have wasted that $150,000 on lobbying that got us know where, like i said it wouldnt, they wouldn't $150,000 more.

Without the lobbying that was done, some of the senate or house bills might have passed..
HR669
HR2811
S373

although, those would have probably been easier to overturn than this rule change will be
 
Without the lobbying that was done, some of the senate or house bills might have passed..
HR669
HR2811
S373

although, those would have probably been easier to overturn than this rule change will be

ill agree that what you have said here is true. but ill also agre that would of been much easier to over turn in court i agree with that too. it mite of been easier to fight in court then lobby against
 
You can sell within your state but you cannot sell them to someone in a different state and if you move, you cannot take the animals with you.

I'm not sure that this is true concerning transporting your own animals when you move. I believe that federal law only applies to interstate COMMERCE, not the transportation of personal property in a relocation.
 
BTW, I hear a lot of people making the statement that USARK is pretty much the only game in town concerning this sort of issue, but what ever happened to PIJAC? Didn't they put a dog into this fight?
 
There was some rather questionable things that transpired with PIJAC. I think they lost a lot of support over it, including mine.

I just want to see some real numbers. Not total amounts donated, but total amounts spent, and for what exactly.
 
I'm not sure that this is true concerning transporting your own animals when you move. I believe that federal law only applies to interstate COMMERCE, not the transportation of personal property in a relocation.

Might want to check into that idea...I remember reading somewhere in the Lacy Act that transporting across state lines are only allowed with proper doc's and permits ...personal or COMMERCE.
I am looking for it and as soon as I find it again I will post it.
Travis
Lair of Dragons
 
Might want to check into that idea...I remember reading somewhere in the Lacy Act that transporting across state lines are only allowed with proper doc's and permits ...personal or COMMERCE.
I am looking for it and as soon as I find it again I will post it.
Travis
Lair of Dragons

You may want to start with the US Constitution. The US federal government was only granted authority and jurisdiction over interstate COMMERCE. That also applies to any agency OF the federal government.
 
Here ya go....Big Cats (Exotics)are on the same list as the snakes (Exotics) are going on....
If I own a big cat and move to another
State, can I take this animal with me?
No. The prohibition on transport applies
to any movement of a covered big cat
across State lines, even household moves.
Only exempt individuals or entities can
move a cat from one State to another.

Link to page: http://www.fws.gov/le/pdffiles/CWSA_Factsheet.pdf
Travis
Lair of Dragons
 
Here's another one with a link...
D. The Lacey Act

The Lacey Act19 was passed in 1900 to address the growing concern about interstate profiteering in illegally taken wild animals used primarily for food. It was amended in the 1930s and 1940s, and again in 1981. The Lacey Act makes it illegal to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire or purchase fish, reptiles, mammals, birds, or plants that were taken, possessed, transported or sold in violation of a federal law or treaty, a state law, or a tribal law. Criminal and civil penalties are provided for violations of the Act. Fines for misdemeanor violations are set at a maximum of $100,000 for individuals and $200,000 for organizations. Maximum fines for felonies are presently $250,000 for individuals and $500,000 for organizations.

In essence, the Lacey Act allows the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to prosecute persons in possession of an animal illegally obtained in a foreign country or another state. Captive wild animals benefit from the Lacey Act because animals that were taken illegally in their county, territory, or state may not be imported, exported, possessed or traded legally in the U.S. In fact, in 2002, at least 17 individuals were prosecuted under the Lacey Act for selling and killing endangered leopards, tigers, and other cats, selling their pelts to collectors, and the meat of the animals to a butcher. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service had been investigating this matter for 5 years. It stretched across 20 states from Florida to Michigan, Oklahoma, Missouri, and Illinois and ended in at least 17 dead animals.20

While the Lacey Act does work to help to curb the illegal transportation of captive wild animals across state lines, it does nothing about the illegal movement of animals within a state. Therefore, if an animal is bred and born illegally in a state, then sold and bought by residents of that state, the Lacey Act does nothing to protect that animal.

Link: http://www.bornfreeusa.org/facts.php?more=1&p=179&page=5
Travis
Lair of Dragons
 
Since when has our federal government followed the Constitution? 100 years ago, maybe more?

I can see them enforcing this, as well as getting away with it.
 
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