USARK & Reptile Nation Save 5 of 9 species from FWS Constrictor Rule!

[Lair of Dragons]

2009, ½ of all donations to a consultant? When in the following year it was 1/8 that amount, while collecting almost twice as much in donations? I wouldn't even question a consultant fee, except for it eating ½ the total donations for that year.

More fights more fees...buying more votes...consulting on who is the best to spend it on. Want the best for you buck and entering a new fight good to have a direction to go in. IMO
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[Lair of Dragons]

Hotel fees for 2011 were pretty high IMO. Enough to stay in a $65 dollar a night room for the whole yr. Sept 2011 alone was enough to stay in a $150 a night room for the entire month. Just seems a bit high unless they're ordering some whores with the rooms or something.

More fights spread out over more states at the same time... guess what going to need more rooms...more people to put up in rooms...Its not a one person show.
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[Metachrosis]

First thing you will need to understand about me is that my business
is just that.I dont give two flying flips about social status trinkets or monikers.What I will tell you is I HAVE A SOLID REPUTATION WITH ON LINE TRANSACTIONS BACK TO 1995,all lower 48,9 Provence's of Canada
and 23 other countries around the globe."Not limited to reptile sales"
My point? I do has I say,when I say I'm going to do it,if you do business with me your getting what you paid for and often a hair above.
I live a life of few regrets and sleep very well at night.

I am sure they know obligations...let me ask you a question...how much did you donate...what level of membership...dont you think that before they come out with a plan that it has to be ran through all the major sponsors and high dollar members...I would rather they take their time and attempt to get it right instead of pulling a General Custer response.

IMO they know we are waiting and they know not everyone is going to like what they say and that some will be happy and some won't...remember you cant please everyone.

Unless you have something better in mind a different force or a lawyer on retainer I dont think if I was you I would be trying to call them out by advertising what they had for lunch. They are not going to respond...
Just my opinion and I could be wrong.....
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[Lair of Dragons]

Admin Payroll, OK, they deserve something for their time and effort, no worries. But right below that another expenditure for Admin payroll tax? What, was their income taxed like everyone else, so they took that back from the donations? I don't get that one myself.

Except for those few things, and the lobbying fees. (um, don't them guys on the hill already live off of us that work and pay taxes? Now they tax us again?)

Yes...if you are a non-profit you can keep up to 20% of total income as your pay....if you have employees they have to be paid and you have to pay taxes on them....

Yes you get taxed again...just like when you get your paycheck its taxed then anything you buy its taxed....
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[AbsoluteApril]

This is from Herp Nation

here's the direct link
http://www.herpnation.com/hn-video/herp-nation-live-usark-response-to-federal-ruling/

It's about 18 minutes long. To summarize: He discusses the groups that pressured and lobbied to get this rule through: Nature Conservancy (nature.org), Defenders of Wildlife (defenders.org) and the HSUS (humanesociety.org). Clarifies what the rule listing effects and means for those that didn't understand it (no import or transportation across state lines).

Discusses the 'true' agendas (you know.. $$). Talks about prior actions our (reptile nation) coming together was able to fight and that the fight is still not over, exploring legal options. Says the time for petitions, etc is over... only way to go forward is legal recourse, which is a federal lawsuit and they are still working on how to get it going. The focus of which will be to debunk the faulty science used to get this through in the first place. It is going to be expensive to fight.

He touches the current laws in other states that are trying to get pushed through and how those need to be addressed in addition the fund raising for the lawsuit. He says the independent Georgetown Economic survey that was funded by USARK is what helped save the 5 species that did not make the listing at this time (due to their economical impact according to statements made by Ken Salazar). Rodda and Reed have taken a lot of criticism (justly deserved imo).

Sorry for the poor grammar, typing while listening

 

[Lair of Dragons]

April,
Thanks for sharing the link...I you did a very good job summing it up.
After listening to it and reflecting back on all the years of warnings and money they asked for to try to stop it one thing came to my mind...the story of "The boy who cried Wolf" they told us for years the Wolf was there and every time all that looked only a small potion believed it...time and time again....and when the Wolf showed how powerful his bite is and left us bleeding... most everybody said..."well why didn't you tell us he was coming" and USARK what are you going to do about it.....
IMO and I could be wrong
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[Lair of Dragons]

April,
BTW do you mind if I share your link on other sites...
Travis
Lair of Dragons

 

[AbsoluteApril]

April,
BTW do you mind if I share your link on other sites...
Travis
Lair of Dragons

go for it, the link, summary, whatever you want


the link I got off of USARK's facebook page

 

[mxracer4life]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXB_nELmY5I&feature=share

 

[AbsoluteApril]

Jonathan (the OP) spoke with Andrew and posted this very informative blog -

http://www.deviantconstrictors.com/blog/the-future-for-the-other-5.html

thank you Jonathan!

 

[HerpVenue]

usark most likely compromised for this ban. they claimed a victory when it wasnt. never set up a plan to fight the ban or set aside any money to fight it.

http://www.deviantconstrictors.com/blog/the-future-for-the-other-5.html

The Future For The Other 5

I recently spoke with Andrew Wyatt of USARK about some of the confusion, misunderstandings, and conflicting information out there about the recent "final ruling" from the USFWS regarding the 4 species placed on the Lacey Act and also, the 5 that were omitted.

What Has Happened

On January 17th, Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar announced that USFWS had finalized a rule that will ban the importation and interstate transportation of four nonnative constrictors. The rule lists the Burmese python, the yellow anaconda, and the northern and southern African pythons.

5 species of snakes which were originally intended to be included by USFWS were not announced as being added. Those five species are: reticulated python, DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda, Beni anaconda and the boa constrictor.

Questions have been raised about why these 5 were left off, and the others were left on. There are two main reasons why they left off any of these animals. The first reason is “risk”. Risk, in this case, refers to the risk of a species becoming established in the wild. The 4 that were listed were all deemed to be “high risk” by the USFWS. Of the 5 which were NOT listed, 4 were deemed to be medium risk and 1 was deemed to be “high risk”. This of course begs two questions:

1.Which species was the one that was deemed as “high risk”, but not included with the 4 that made the list that were also “high risk”?
2.Why wasn’t it included?
The boa constrictor was deemed to be “high risk”. It was not included because of the economic impact that listing boa constrictor would have had. Listing boa constrictor with the other 4 “high risk” species would have driven the economic impact of this rule change above $100 million dollars. This is significant because at the threshold of $100 million, the announced rule would have then been subject to minimum standards for information quality and would have opened up the USFWS and USGS to scrutiny from the Office of Management and Budget (the OMB is responsible for overseeing the process) that they couldn’t have withstood – the entire listing would have failed.

Logically, they also couldn’t attempt to go after the other 4 that were deemed “medium risk” because how could they explain asking to list those 4 which were medium risk while ignoring one that was “high risk”? Essentially, the USFWS “took what they could get” without protest from the OMB. By being greedy and trying to take more, they would have failed.

What About The Future?

It was said on January 17th that USFWS “is continuing to consider the status of the other five species and will publish final determinations for those species when that process is completed.”

This has left a giant question mark in the collective minds of the Reptile Nation as to the future of those 5 species. This has also led to a lot of speculation and educated guesses from numerous people which of course, has led to much debate and misunderstanding.

To clarify the situation, it needs to be made abundantly clear that there are two scenarios to consider moving forward which the USFWS could consider to list these animals as injurious alongside the four already listed. In reality, they could attempt either, or both scenarios – but not without consequences.

Scenario 1: “The door isn’t closed”


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE SITUATION

It needs to be understood that because the USFWS has gone through this process and included the remaining 5 in the initial process, they can revisit those 5 again at any time for up to 6 years after the rule was proposed (March 2010). However, NO NEW SCIENCE can be introduced to support listing any of the other 5. Addtionally, the economic impact can NOT be separated out from the 4 that are already listed – in other words, any additional species they wanted to list would be ADDED TO the economic impact already being considered for the 4 that are listed and NOT considered on its own.

WHAT THIS MEANS

Should the USFWS choose to add any of these species, boa constrictor will have to be one of them (since it’s the only “high risk” species left) and by including boa constrictor, the economic impact will soar above $100 million. As was mentioned earlier, this will open up USFWS to scrutiny they do not want, and cannot successfully defend.

VERDICT

This is unlikely to be successful, if attempted.

Scenario 2: A new listing


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE SITUATION

The USFWS can attempt to list ANY non-native species (fish, bird, mammal, plant, etc.) as injurious under the Lacey Act. But to do so, they have to go through the entire process that they just experienced and dedicate the time to it (this process has been 4 years in the making).

WHAT THIS MEANS

To list any of the 5 that were excluded this time, they’ll need additional science to support the listing to make it different from the current listing. As we know all too well, the USGS isn’t averse to manufacturing science to support a predetermined policy change, but given the scrutiny that Rodda and Reed have faced and the damage to their reputations that they’ve incurred, it’s highly unlikely they’d be willing to do it again. Additionally, to list boa constrictor, there is still the hurdle of the economic impact and the trade in boa constrictor likely reaches the $100 million mark all on its own.

VERDICT

This is unlikely to be successful, if attempted.

As I've laid out here, neither of these actions is likely to result in success for the USFWS... Unless there's no one there to fight them! So, we can't consider this matter over. We must remain vigilant, active, and aware of what's going on at all times.

In Closing

I hope that by explaining why the current listing failed for the other 5 as well as the two possible scenarios to list those 5 in the future (and why they would likely fail); you’ll have a better understanding of the situation going forward.

Please remember, the fight for the 4 species that were listed is not over. The USFWS crossed a line in the sand and they need to know that as a community, we will stick together and fight this injustice, and any future injustices they may attempt. There is a legal battle brewing and USARK is heading the fight. USARK is made up of owners of all kinds of reptile and amphibian owners. We are a community and we need to show that solidarity and avoid any “in fighting” that may occur between the ______ owners and the _______ owners. It doesn’t matter what species you work with, we’re all one team. Stand together and support one another – and USARK!

Please click here to join USARK, or if you're already a member, click here to donate whatever you can afford, to help fight this injustice!

As always, feel free to link to my blog to share it with others!

- jb

 

[HerpVenue]

whoops sorry April. Did not see that you already posted it.

 

[USARK]

Information Quality Python Ban

The Information Quality Act governs the standard of quality of information used to substantiate a federal rule making such as the Constrictor Rule. Because it was confirmed from scientists round the world that the USGS Constrictor Report was NOT the kind of quality scientific work to base policy or legislative changes on, USARK filed a formal challenge in 2010 of the Constrictor Report in the form of a Request for Correction of the myriad of errors, misstatements and inconsistencies within the document. USGS responded that they were not held to information quality standards under the IQA because their "Grey" paper was NOT deemed at the time of publication to be a "Highly Influential" document; meaning that their estimate of the economic impact of the rule it was supporting fell below the $100 million threshold that constitutes a major rule. Unfortunately for them USARK commissioned Georgetown Economic Services to do a comprehensive economic assessment of the reptile industry. They researched the entire industry and determined that the rule, in fact, reached beyond the threshold to approximately $104 million. This put the entire rule making process in jeopardy, because now USGS and FWS could be held to account in a federal courtroom for bypassing information quality standards under IQA. After USARK proved that this would indeed fall into major rule territory, White House oversight officials appeared ready to bury the rule.... Until HSUS, The Nature Conservancy and Defenders of Wildlife pressured Florida politicians to ask Obama to push rule through. Then government did what it always does, it compromised. They chose 4 snakes that would not carry the economic impact constituting a major rule and enacted this limited version avoiding the mandatory integrity in science demanded by going after all 9.

 

[WingedWolf]

I would just like to say 'thank you' to USARK. We essentially 'hired' you to know what to do in these situations, and you did an admirable job of it.
The fact of life is that we can't win EVERY time. That would be an unrealistic expectation. We lost something, but we didn't lose nearly what we would have without your efforts, and I can't honestly think of anything more you could have done.

 

[mxracer4life]

I would just like to say 'thank you' to USARK. We essentially 'hired' you to know what to do in these situations, and you did an admirable job of it.
The fact of life is that we can't win EVERY time. That would be an unrealistic expectation. We lost something, but we didn't lose nearly what we would have without your efforts, and I can't honestly think of anything more you could have done.

Me too! Thank you USARK!

 

[pixieil]

I have tried 6 times from various sites to sign this petition. The site it is on requires that you "create an account". In order to do that, you have to fill out a form which includes one of those clever "weird lettering" verification boxes. Unfortunately, the box in which one is supposed to enter what they see in order to prove they are a real person is off the screen, as is the submit button, and nothing I do (including scrolling and reducing the screen to 50%) seems to make it possible to access these necessary elements. Any suggestions?

 

[USARK]

The reality of this situation is this... In 2009 Senator Bill Nelson of Florida introduced a bill, S373, that would add all 47 pythons to the Injurious Wildlife list of the Lacey Act. The bill then passed out of committee and awaited a full vote. USARK was able to convince Senator Tom Coburn of Oklahoma to place a "HOLD" on the bill because of the economic impact and effectively blocked a full vote; otherwise S373 would have been passed into law in summer 2009. USARK convinced Senator Coburn to renew the hold in 2010 until the conclusion of the 111th Congress killing the bill bill once and for all. Thank you Senator Coburn!

 

[Gina Gauvin]

I have tried 6 times from various sites to sign this petition. The site it is on requires that you "create an account". In order to do that, you have to fill out a form which includes one of those clever "weird lettering" verification boxes. Unfortunately, the box in which one is supposed to enter what they see in order to prove they are a real person is off the screen, as is the submit button, and nothing I do (including scrolling and reducing the screen to 50%) seems to make it possible to access these necessary elements. Any suggestions?

Priscilla, Just guess at the lettering, using caps when required, and if your wrong, it gives you another word. After the 3rd time, the words are a bit clearer... or your crazy by then and understand it better. Can't you tell I went thru it too? Keep trying!

 

[WebSlave]

I have tried 6 times from various sites to sign this petition. The site it is on requires that you "create an account". In order to do that, you have to fill out a form which includes one of those clever "weird lettering" verification boxes. Unfortunately, the box in which one is supposed to enter what they see in order to prove they are a real person is off the screen, as is the submit button, and nothing I do (including scrolling and reducing the screen to 50%) seems to make it possible to access these necessary elements. Any suggestions?

Most CAPTCHA spam blocks have an audio option so you can actually HEAR the lettering in case you are visually impaired. I can't recall if this White House petition site does or not, however. But I agree, some of those displays are darn hard to figure out, and appear to be actively user hostile. I believe the site has a feedback page, so send feedback to them and let them know that you feel disenfranchised because of the difficulty you are having with their website to express your solicited opinion.

 

[WebSlave]

The Information Quality Act governs the standard of quality of information used to substantiate a federal rule making such as the Constrictor Rule. Because it was confirmed from scientists round the world that the USGS Constrictor Report was NOT the kind of quality scientific work to base policy or legislative changes on, USARK filed a formal challenge in 2010 of the Constrictor Report in the form of a Request for Correction of the myriad of errors, misstatements and inconsistencies within the document. USGS responded that they were not held to information quality standards under the IQA because their "Grey" paper was NOT deemed at the time of publication to be a "Highly Influential" document; meaning that their estimate of the economic impact of the rule it was supporting fell below the $100 million threshold that constitutes a major rule. Unfortunately for them USARK commissioned Georgetown Economic Services to do a comprehensive economic assessment of the reptile industry. They researched the entire industry and determined that the rule, in fact, reached beyond the threshold to approximately $104 million. This put the entire rule making process in jeopardy, because now USGS and FWS could be held to account in a federal courtroom for bypassing information quality standards under IQA. After USARK proved that this would indeed fall into major rule territory, White House oversight officials appeared ready to bury the rule.... Until HSUS, The Nature Conservancy and Defenders of Wildlife pressured Florida politicians to ask Obama to push rule through. Then government did what it always does, it compromised. They chose 4 snakes that would not carry the economic impact constituting a major rule and enacted this limited version avoiding the mandatory integrity in science demanded by going after all 9.

Thank you, Andrew. Can't say that I envy you having to deal with those people... It has to be EXTREMELY frustrating....