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USFW SERVICE needs to change...help me please!!!!

Ecarinata said:
How about some examples of which species you are exporting?
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What's the relevance to this discussion? He already stated they are Appendix II animals.
 
If Justin would like MY support, I'd like to know exactly what animals are involved in HIS export business. CITES Appendix II lists 100's species. Is he dealing in great white sharks or just importing and exporting cobras?
 
Ecarinata said:
If Justin would like MY support, I'd like to know exactly what animals are involved in HIS export business. CITES Appendix II lists 100's species. Is he dealing in great white sharks or just importing and exporting cobras?
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Oh well that's clear then. I'm quite certain he is exporting loads of great white sharks.

So you understand, nothing on CITES II is endangered. Offering support to people in the reptile business should not be contingent upon your morals but rather on the fact that this is the government squeezing us all in a way that will, in the long run, hurt us all.

Justin's is certainly a law abiding business, and frankly, that's all that I needed to know.
 
Now are you all cowards or am I going to get some help here, personally I feel if you read this thread and don't act or sign, then you deserve whatever comes down the pike.Obviously you don't give a damn .Our right to keep and sale reptiles is under attack from multiple angles.
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I don't think the lack of support has anything to do with us being "cowards". You've asked for support without really telling us any of the reasons for the change in policy or how it will affect those of us who don't export animals by the thousands. You prefaced your petition with "Below are signatures of the many companies , families and breeders who have been affected."
How are the vast majority of us being affected by this change in policy? Most of us are hobbyists or private breeders who keep these animals as pets and maybe sell some of our offspring to other hobbyists.

I really have no idea if the millions of dollars worth of animals you're exporting are CB reptiles that you produce or if these are commercially collected WC animals that you export by the 1000's. I suspect that many of the exporters in this country are dealing in WC animals and are concerned about this policy change because they want to quickly unload WC animals by the 1000's before they waste away and die from parasite loads or substandard care.

So I'm no fence sitter. I would support policy changes that would make it less profitable for commercial collectors to bag up our native herps by the thousands and quickly ship them overseas before they drop dead and cut into their profits.
 
He asks for support yet initially gives no details. Then he gives an off hand "All CITES appendix II" If there is no concern about these species then why would they be in Appendix II? If he's trying to export US CB CITES II I'll lend my support. If he's simply import/export or shipping out WC US species I won't.
I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement "Offering support to people in the reptile business should not be contingent upon your morals but rather on the fact that this is the government squeezing us all ...". Are you saying you'd support something you were morally against as long as it's a "reptile guy"? There are thing that are legal that I'm against as well as things that are currently illegal that I would support. Neither would depend on whether it involved "one of us".
 
Offering support to people in the reptile business should not be contingent upon your morals but rather on the fact that this is the government squeezing us all in a way that will, in the long run, hurt us all.
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My sentiments exactly.
 
Justin Mitcham said:
USFW service has changed it's proceedures regarding CITES applications, instead of the normal few weeks it takes for processing the wait time has increased dramtically to 6 months.
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I can find stuff on fee changes etc. but I can not find documents on processing time changes anywhere. Help us out Justin...we need more details.

...oh....and calling people cowards will not get them on you side.
 
OMG! It appears I've stepped on someone's toes or taken away someone's binky. My reputation points have plummeted! Should I now slink away in shame?
 
Justin Mitcham said:
My way of looking at it is that USFW is supposed to perform a service, currently we are paying taxes to pay for that service, well that service is subpar at best now.Since it affects the community I feel this forum is an appropriate place for this topic since basically we are getting shafted.

Now are you all cowards or am I going to get some help here, personally I feel if you read this thread and don't act or sign, then you deserve whatever comes down the pike.Obviously you don't give a damn .Our right to keep and sale reptiles is under attack from multiple angles. There has been a few hundred views on this thread and only a few post... that makes me sick to my stomach.
There are a lot of fence sitters here, time is now people...
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Well Justin your childish attitude is not going to help anyone in your pursuit of help and information on this subject. Maybe you should stop and think about what other people might be doing themselved to validate or verify you claims. I am an importer/exporter myself and I have placed calls to USF&W DMA on this subject and will be getting more information for myself. There is no reason to attack other people and call them names because they do not JUMP at the first sign from you that you are upset over an issue.
 
Well here is the information I just received from someone I know at USF&W DMA who is the issuing division of CITES export documents here in the US. There currently is a backlog of CITES documents being issued (as is normal this time of year and this happens every year). There is no 6 month waiting period, or added processing time of CITES documents being instituted. The normal processing time for CITES documents is 1-2 months (but most times I personally have seen it in less than a month other than this time of year). Currently they are processing documents for applications from the middle and end of April. This is far from 6 months for processing time. They stated that once the peak export time (which is usually until the fall) is over the processing times should be right back to what they were before (approximately 3 - 6 weeks). Now I don't know if maybe you had a problem with obtaining documents Justin but there can always be a chance of a problem making the application process take longer.
 
Thanks for the info Rob. That is probably why I could not find any information on the subject. Does this increase in processing time usually happen at this time of year or is this a first time deal?
 
Yes time of year they get very busy with export documents and it happens every year. With all the animals being produced this time of year (both in captivity and in the wild) they get backed up.
 
"So you understand, nothing on CITES II is endangered. Offering support to people in the reptile business should not be contingent upon your morals but rather on the fact that this is the government squeezing us all in a way that will, in the long run, hurt us all."

Well it had to happen some time and here it is... Jim, I could not disagree with you more on this statement. In fact, your statement scares me. Like I said it had to happen some time.
 
From CITES website at http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/text.shtml#I

Article II

Fundamental Principles

1. Appendix I shall include all species threatened with extinction which are or may be affected by trade. Trade in specimens of these species must be subject to particularly strict regulation in order not to endanger further their survival and must only be authorized in exceptional circumstances.

2. Appendix II shall include:

(a) all species which although not necessarily now threatened with extinction may become so unless trade in specimens of such species is subject to strict regulation in order to avoid utilization incompatible with their survival; and
(b) other species which must be subject to regulation in order that trade in specimens of certain species referred to in sub-paragraph (a) of this paragraph may be brought under effective control.

3. Appendix III shall include all species which any Party identifies as being subject to regulation within its jurisdiction for the purpose of preventing or restricting exploitation, and as needing the co-operation of other Parties in the control of trade.

4. The Parties shall not allow trade in specimens of species included in Appendices I, II and III except in accordance with the provisions of the present Convention.
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I'm just going by the definitions on the CITES website. The process of getting the permits fulfills or should fulfill said "strict regulation". In fact, many Appendix I animals are there for political and not scientific reasons.

As we all know, collection of reptiles for the pet trade represents a small fraction of the number taken for the skin trade and other purposes such as organ harvest. The real reason species are endangered in most cases is habitat destruction first and foremost, and the skin trade second. The pet trade has a negligible effect on most wild populations. For the government to require a three month or longer wait for legal exports is just an example of inefficient government bureaucracy and not "good policy". That's my main problem with it. It is our government's job to help make US businesses competitive overseas, not to put them out of business.
 
Sorry wasn't trying to hurt any feelings only to motivate people to get off there arses. Sorry Rob if the use of the word "Coward" insulted you, but this is really very simple. For years we have exported captive bred appendix 2 animals and the wait for the permits was only a few weeks on average, but for the last 18 months or so (this is not a recent change) they have decided to send all the permit applications to one office in Arlington, Virginia, this had the effect of creating a serious backlog due to understaffing. No real fundamental legal changes have taken place, basically the office is being buried and no-one is doing anything about it. This is how our taxpayer money is being used. The same laws exist ,just there killing us with slow processing etc..
So really we are paying the same price for less service or really NO REASONABLE SERVICE.
For example, if I want to sell 100 captive bred in the US baby boa's to japan, it will take a fee for the application of about 60$ and 6 months!!! Baby Boa's in 100 lots cost about $20-30ea and are sold for maybe 40-45ea , do the math in hours lost, cage space lost and feeding. Why buy from us when someone in Mexico or Europe can send the same thing is 3 weeks for 45ea. Same to be said with several other species international dealers need to compete in the market.
 
"There is no 6 month waiting period, or added processing time of CITES documents being instituted. The normal processing time for CITES documents is 1-2 months (but most times I personally have seen it in less than a month other than this time of year). Currently they are processing documents for applications from the middle and end of April. This is far from 6 months for processing time. "
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Rob sorry but that is incorrect, we have several applications out now, for Example rainbow boa's I bought from Jeff Meyers, John Schmitt I believe shipped them to me for him , This was about 5 months ago,ask him, I also bought several Rosy boa's albino's etc from PM HERPS several months ago no permit yet,ask him, this is only a few of the apps out now that are approaching 4-6 months, and these were submitted during "there" slow period!?!?This has become the norm. Rob can you tell me how long your CITES 2 permits have taken?
 
Perhaps it would be more effective to request that they review the current procedures which are causing the delay in granting permits. I don't know much about exporting animals, but I'm afraid that your original letter may come off sounding somewhat hostile and threatening. Justin, if your goal is to get the whole process expedited in some way to maintain your export sales, I think that suggesting alternative procedures would yield a better response. I know they are a "service" but they are also a government agency, and in my experience you really have to try to make such an agency want to work with you. For example, would it be possible for them to issue blanket permits to approved exporters that would bypass the current delay in processing time? That may also lessen their workload somewhat, so if that's a reasonable suggestion I would point out how your ideas or alternatives would benefit them as well.

Just a thought.
 
Maybe it would be best if you or someone better at writing wrote the letter, I admit I am not the best at this as some have pointed out. Any help or suggestions would be awesome.
 
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