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USFW SERVICE needs to change...help me please!!!!

Justin Mitcham said:
Maybe it would be best if you or someone better at writing wrote the letter, I admit I am not the best at this as some have pointed out. Any help or suggestions would be awesome.
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Like I said earlier, I'd be willing to help in any way that I can so if that means drafting a letter, sure. No problem. BUT, like I also said, I don't know a hill of beans about exporting, so I'd need more details. I think that citing some specific examples of applications that were delayed unnecessarily would help. I guess I'd also like to see an actual application and all other pertinent documents related to the process. Can you direct me to a specific webpage? I tried looking at the USFW website, but it's about as well organized as my sock drawer.
 
Justin,

Ok from what I just gathered from your post....it is not you that has applied for the CITES on these animals but rather someone else?? Maybe there is something else going on with these other individuals or Business's that is taking allot longer. As I stated before USF&W admitted that they are a little slow right now and a little behind but is does happen this time of year. I have normally had my CITES take roughly 3 weeks throughout the year but last year in August I had one permit take almost 4 months. Was I happy about it taking this long....no but it happens from time to time. Also my CITES Re-Export documents are handled locally in Miami which take no time at all and do not have to go through the delays in Arlington. I know a few breeders that are not having any real extended times obtaining their CITES documents and even if they do take a little extra time they are fine with it as they know the animals are sold and paid for just awaiting shipment. I don't have a problem holding onto my animals for a couple of months waiting for documents if the animals are paid for.

I have seen allot of people complain about USF&W and the way they do things for years. Some people complain about the fees they charge for inspections, some complain about the way the inspectors treat them and act toward them. I personally have never had a bad incident with any of the inspectors I have dealt with. I have seen other importers have entire shipments confiscated and or delayed because of the way they acted towards the inspectors when they inspectors found a discrepancy. While I am presently not importing or exporting in the numbers I previously was I still have the same relationship with the USF&W that I did then. Treat them with respect and they will return it.

With the animosity that I am seeing in your posts here, I would not doubt that you are upset and very well may have expressed these feelings to them regarding your CITES applications which very well may influence the time it takes them to process your applications. Another thing about CITES applications that some seem to forget. It is not an automatic thing that they grant CITES documents for any animals for export. Just because a person has a license to import or export does not guarantee the import or export of protected animals.
 
After reading all 9 pages of posts and reading all the linked material my eyes hurt and all I that it has come down to is USFW is slow. They are probalby overworked and understaffed like most government agencies and doing the best they can. There was no actual change in policy as stated in the first post either. This sounds more like whining than any actual problem.
Why would you want to take legal action against a government agency for being backlogged? You made it sound like they had changed their whole policy when in fact nothing has changed. What a waste of space.

David Button
 
Rob re-exports are not the problem, they take only a couple weeks at worst, and the CITES I have applied myself no-one else, since I am doing the export remember it has to be under my license #. This is not isolated, I talk with many exporters daily and they are having the same problems. Back in January was the fastest I recieved a permit in a long while, they were rubber boa's and that took 2 months.
Albino rosy boa's and baby rainbows shouldn't take 2months 3 months or 6 months. Your method of doing buisness may not be affedcted by the wait, but when you start doing real volume it gets pretty burdensome.
 
After reading all 9 pages of posts and reading all the linked material my eyes hurt and all I that it has come down to is USFW is slow. They are probalby overworked and understaffed like most government agencies and doing the best they can. There was no actual change in policy as stated in the first post either. This sounds more like whining than any actual problem.
Why would you want to take legal action against a government agency for being backlogged? You made it sound like they had changed their whole policy when in fact nothing has changed. What a waste of space.

David Button
Click to expand...

So the fact that they are giving less product for the same $$$ is ok, if I was overworked and didn't take care of my PAYIN customers would that be ok, you forget this is a service. If you had 30% of your buisness altered because someone was understaffed then you'd be pretty upset. How would you like your job to tell you, "were overworked so instead of sending you your paycheck in a week or two it could be several weeks", I'm sure you'd whine too.
30% of our buisness was CITES exports, now we don't hardly do them anymore because of the back log, this is not something I am going to just rollover and accept. This is a drastic and unreasonable change, period.
In a company that does more than 2 million a year and employess 8 people, 30% is a huge loss of revenue. Why our customers don't want to wait , yes it could take a few weeks but experience has shown that it is very likely to go the other way and that is unreasonable.
 
I have not had the time to respond much to this thread until now, and I still cannot figure out why it is even still here.

"My way of looking at it is that USFW is supposed to perform a service, currently we are paying taxes to pay for that service, well that service is subpar at best now.Since it affects the community I feel this forum is an appropriate place for this topic since basically we are getting shafted." Justin Mitcham

Not quite the case. You are not paying for permission to export a CITIES 2 animal, you are paying to ASK permission from the federal government to export a CITIES 2 animal. They may say yes, and they may say no, and as a government, we all know they may take their sweet time (especially when backlogged and confronted with an attitude. Like I said earlier, this just does not belong here.

"Now are you all cowards or am I going to get some help here, personally I feel if you read this thread and don't act or sign, then you deserve whatever comes down the pike.Obviously you don't give a damn .Our right to keep and sale reptiles is under attack from multiple angles. There has been a few hundred views on this thread and only a few post... that makes me sick to my stomach. There are a lot of fence sitters here, time is now people...." Justin Mitcham

Cowards... Well isn't that just special.

"Well Justin your childish attitude is not going to help anyone in your pursuit of help and information on this subject."
Rob Tenor

That is just Justin's MO. He tends to be a bit of a hothead at times.

"OMG! It appears I've stepped on someone's toes or taken away someone's binky. My reputation points have plummeted! Should I now slink away in shame?" Michael McCoy

Typical, what a shame.. I guess you asked too many pertinent questions.

"After reading all 9 pages of posts and reading all the linked material my eyes hurt and all I that it has come down to is USFW is slow. They are probalby overworked and understaffed like most government agencies and doing the best they can. There was no actual change in policy as stated in the first post either. This sounds more like whining than any actual problem. Why would you want to take legal action against a government agency for being backlogged? You made it sound like they had changed their whole policy when in fact nothing has changed. What a waste of space." David Button

"So the fact that they are giving less product for the same $$$ is ok, if I was overworked and didn't take care of my PAYIN customers would that be ok," Justin Mitcham

Apples to oranges. Not even close to the same thing. You bought nothing from USFW except the opportunity to file the paperwork. That is what you did, and that is what you are paying for.

"How would you like your job to tell you, "were overworked so instead of sending you your paycheck in a week or two it could be several weeks", I'm sure you'd whine too." Justin Mitcham

Again, not even close to the same thing. I am sure all of the people that work for USFW (and the rest of the federal government) have no trouble getting their paychecks on time. Do you work for USFW? Did they not pay you for some service that you provided them? If yes to both, you have a ledgit complaint, otherwise, your comment makes no sense at all, and your logic is so far off base it is not even funny.

"30% of our buisness was CITES exports, now we don't hardly do them anymore because of the back log, this is not something I am going to just rollover and accept. This is a drastic and unreasonable change, period.
In a company that does more than 2 million a year and employess 8 people, 30% is a huge loss of revenue. Why our customers don't want to wait , yes it could take a few weeks but experience has shown that it is very likely to go the other way and that is unreasonable." Justin Mitcham
Why is it that you have to turn so many of your posts into shameless self promotional plugs? It is quite obvious, and should be a bit embarrassing. This is just not a BOI issue. However, it is a waste of time and webspace here.
 
Justin Mitcham said:
So the fact that they are giving less product for the same $$$ is ok, if I was overworked and didn't take care of my PAYIN customers would that be ok, you forget this is a service. If you had 30% of your buisness altered because someone was understaffed then you'd be pretty upset. How would you like your job to tell you, "were overworked so instead of sending you your paycheck in a week or two it could be several weeks", I'm sure you'd whine too.
30% of our buisness was CITES exports, now we don't hardly do them anymore because of the back log, this is not something I am going to just rollover and accept. This is a drastic and unreasonable change, period.
In a company that does more than 2 million a year and employess 8 people, 30% is a huge loss of revenue. Why our customers don't want to wait , yes it could take a few weeks but experience has shown that it is very likely to go the other way and that is unreasonable.
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Justin,

If I can make a suggestion to you (and the Company you work for etc.). I would suggest that you do a little more research on CITES documents and their issuance. There is no guarantee that you will be able to obtain CITES documents for export of any species. There is no Guarantee that you can even obtain, maintain, or keep an IE license. It is not a mandatory thing but rather a privilege of being able to export and obtain CITES documents. Not everyone that applies for CITES will receive them.

And as for your continued comment about how much revenue the company does who really cares? (other than you). I know people that do your companies annual revenue on a bi Monthly basis. Does this give that person any more right to obtain faster service or special treatment? Nope. It does not affect the outcome of the job that USF&W performs in the least.
 
Rob, that was very well said. That is the point I was trying to make, but I just do not have the way with words that you do :) .
 
I have not read the whole thread so this may be old info.


I was wondering if anyone has talked to Marc Cantos or Bill Brant. This issue was brought up at the AITC meeting 2 meetings ago and is already being worked upon by them.

thanks
ben cole
 
Rob , James was just trying to help others as well as myself, sorry, I will continue my own efforts with the people I know and who fully understand this issue and not bother your precious time no longer, recently seems no matter WHAT good intentions people have it gets turned into something negative and ugly on here.WHY always looks for the negative and focus on that? I admit I am not the best speaker nor writer, but being attacked personally for trying to help the community in my own way was not the result I had intended. This is my last post on this place unless I need advice and have no other options. I have seen too many good people get hurt here recently, and all of you know what I mean. Everything turns into an argument.Even Rich had to take leave due to the attitudes and the way people like to construde things on here. You people's standards are set so high that it is hard to keep from having arguments.It's to hard to type the perfect post or see an insult where none was intended. I am tired of arguing my point and having to be on the defensive when all I want is to help others.
 
Justin,

I really find it funny that you are stating that we (or I) are attacking you when in fact it was you that called the people on this site cowards basically because they did not JUMP at your first post on this subject matter. I have not seen anyone (including myself) attack you by any stretch of the imagination but rather have tried to help you and give you further information from another source on this subject matter.
 
Also what are you talking about regarding James? I did not say anything about him or what he was saying. He made some valid points in his post and agreed with my post.
 
Justin Mitcham said:
I am tired of arguing my point and having to be on the defensive when all I want is to help others.
Click to expand...

That is good that you want to help others, but several other people who deal or have dealt with CITES permits have stated that they have not and do not now have a problem with the time that it has taken them to have their paperwork filed and the permits given. And that it is a very busy time of the year right now. So the problem just seems to be that you are not getting your money on time or have had to cut your profits a bit. But the fact remains that this is a government run service and they are going to get it done in their own time. Are you even from the United States?? Because you seem quite naive as to how US govenment run departments such as the USFW/ Department of the interior is run. Maybe you are just young, who knows. But I do have one last thing to say to you, BYE.

Oh yea, who is this 2 million dollar a year reptile export company anyway?????


David Button
 
I must be one of the "cowards" I've been reading the thread but haven't jumped in feet first.

Why in heck not? Jeepers... could it be that I, like many others, are reading this but have no opinion because we don't have the slightest involvement in CITES?

Nobody has attacked anyone on this thread. I've seen incredibly civil responses from Rob, and agitated responses to his calm ones.... But I can't figure out how that could be interpreted in the way that it is being interpreted.

So the big To-Do here is....

A Government agency is taking their sweet time for some folks

(big newsflash!)

Okay.

Doesn't this belong in a more tame part of this site and not the BOI?

In any case, I'm sure I speak for many people who are "cowards" .... they don't post because there isn't any REASON to post.
 
Unfortunately,

the govt seems to take its sweet time more often than is necessary. Guaranteed, the delay always gets longer, never shorter! Thats a given.
It just seems to make sense to me, that some complaint is warranted. I am uncertain what can be done, I know from my own personal experience when I was having some difficulties with US Customs and Fish and Wildlife, that I found legal measures being brought to the appropriate attention, did give us some relief.

This is certainly not a new story, nor is it isolated to our industry. Passengers who used to file a claim for lost or stolen items from their luggage, were compensated directly by the airlines within 30 days. Today, because of screening, and claims made are now handled by the "guess who" the govt.
waiting period..............at least 6 months.

The answer has to be, as simple as possible. Form a group of concerned businesses and take some legal action to speed up your permit approvals. It does make a difference. It did in my case, and hopefully these governmental cogs will be notified that people are watching , and paying attention and are willing to take whatever actions are necessary to insure their business viability. An old timer!
 
I agree with Jerry. The government should be held to the same level of customer service as any small business or large corporation. If an activity is legal, it should be expedited as soon as possible or sooner. Like yesterday. I am glad to pay my taxes when the government gives me good service.

:cool:
 
hey BRUCE,

I wished the govt worked that way, but its like going to the wizard of oz when dealing with them. In most instances its usually a hit or miss approach and sometimes allot depends on whom you are dealing with.

With regard to permits, whoever handles the processing of applications must realize that these are perishable commodities. In all likelihood, the longer the wait, the greater the monetary loss. For both sides. So by the very nature of the application process, something should be done to expedite these permits . I am sure backlogging does no one any good.

I would as indicated in my earlier post, get several business together, form a unified body, hire an attorney who knows how to deal with these burocracies, and pursue it from that venue. Hopefully, some one may pay attention and provide a quicker solution to the herp industry.

Let me just add this much from my own experience, Rob is correct about the issuance of permits are a privilege, taking into consideration that their are no criminal restrictions, permit availability should not be difficult to obtain. But sometimes those who are in the "powers to provide these permits" most definetly may have a bias against the herp business in general. I have experienced this, and delt with it accordingly, but my difficulties were on a face to face situation. Here you are dealing with an anonymous soul , who could care less about your predicament and may take his sweet time in processing your application. Not that that, may be happening, but under those circumstances I would feel like the chicken entering the foxes den.
So, rather than campaign for a letter writing contest to the govt, get legal advise and find where the buck stops, and you will find your starting point in pursuing some justice. Incidently, I have never considered the USFW as the good guys, so its my opinion that this is a justifiable post.
 
"Incidently, I have never considered the USFW as the good guys, so its my opinion that this is a justifiable post."

Why am I not surprised that you said that? No need to answer. We just have totally different thoughts about wildlife, the laws that govern and protect it, and those that enforce those laws.
 
What this really boils own to is what is "reasonable" for the gov't to take their time in prcessing paperwork. If they could do it in a shorter amount of time before then it is possible now. 6 MONTHS is not reasonable regarding LIVE animals and it is a form of gov't chipping away at our rights. Let them have this and next its permits to ship all live reptiles in the US. Justin is right we need to make a stand together or its Bye Bye herpetoculture.

If anyone understand the basis of how the gov't works its stuff like this that causes more regulation. Gov't is never about de-regulation, only regulation. Once its in effect you won't be able to change it because of so many uninformed masses.

Time to act now folks or in another 10 years you will be sorry.
 
James,

Its my opinion that I gave. Actually opinions are not necessarily based on fact, nor do they have to be. In this particular case, my reasons are more than justified from allot of personal experience in dealing with Fish and Wildlife well before their were any Conventions.

As a matter of fact because their were very little regulations during my hey days of importing and exporting, discretions were based many time on who you were and how much influence you had within the governmental process. Nothing was based on a room somewhere that fetted out application approvals. So it was a different world during the 1960s.

Why should my dislike toward Fish and Wildlife require you to make a statement "Why am I not surprised that you said that?"
 
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