Using Coldpacks - Summer Shipping

[Abby]

Alright guys, I've perfected my extreme winter shipping methods, but when it comes to hot weather I get nervous. It is going to be about 84-85 outside today when I drop my package off at FedEx. I plan to use a cold pack but wanted to get a thread started on here for opinions on shipping in that kind of weather. Would love to hear everyone's experiences/stories. I appreciate it, in advance

I'm shipping Ball Pythons, BTW.

 

[hhmoore]

I don't "routinely" use cold packs.
I generally drop my package off at FedEx after 6pm...if temps are 85 or under at that time, I don't see much need for them on my end (for BPs, since you specified)....but, there ARE other considerations: conditions when they'll be leaving FedEx, conditions at Memphis (if the box is going there), morning conditions at the destination.
I also ship to be held at FedEx the vast majority of the time, so I don't usually worry too much about temps later in the day.

If it is closer to 90 when I'm dropping off, IF I'm shipping, I'll probably cold pack...but how I do things depends on the destination. If the temps aren't expected to be high there, and will be decent in Memphis, I may cold pack the box in advance to lower the temps for the first few hours (the pack may well be removed when I close the box). If the box is going somewhere hot, I'll drop the cold pack in just before I leave the house. If it's high here, and high there (and I'm going to ship), I'll combine the two - precooling the box, then adding a cold pack at the last minute. These things assuming that I have the time available to play those games, of course.
It really isn't all that complicated - figure out what you are comfortable with for the particular species, and try to make sure that you keep them in range. If you can't, don't ship.
One thing I will suggest is remember to check the destination temps. I've received snakes that were coldpacked when my local temps at arrival were in the mid to high 40s. Needless to say, I was not happy.

 

[Abby]

I don't "routinely" use cold packs.
I generally drop my package off at FedEx after 6pm...if temps are 85 or under at that time, I don't see much need for them on my end (for BPs, since you specified)....but, there ARE other considerations: conditions when they'll be leaving FedEx, conditions at Memphis (if the box is going there), morning conditions at the destination.
I also ship to be held at FedEx the vast majority of the time, so I don't usually worry too much about temps later in the day.

If it is closer to 90 when I'm dropping off, IF I'm shipping, I'll probably cold pack...but how I do things depends on the destination. If the temps aren't expected to be high there, and will be decent in Memphis, I may cold pack the box in advance to lower the temps for the first few hours (the pack may well be removed when I close the box). If the box is going somewhere hot, I'll drop the cold pack in just before I leave the house. If it's high here, and high there (and I'm going to ship), I'll combine the two - precooling the box, then adding a cold pack at the last minute. These things assuming that I have the time available to play those games, of course.
It really isn't all that complicated - figure out what you are comfortable with for the particular species, and try to make sure that you keep them in range. If you can't, don't ship.
One thing I will suggest is remember to check the destination temps. I've received snakes that were coldpacked when my local temps at arrival were in the mid to high 40s. Needless to say, I was not happy.

Thank you Harald

Temps on her end are a little lower than mine, so I'm really just concerned with the temps at the beginning of shipping. Temps should be approx. 78-81F on her end tomorrow morning. This is going from OH to MI so I don't imagine it will be going to Memphis, but sometimes they do route them funny. I received a package from a similar area last week and it only went to Indianapolis then my area... Not sure if it would be the same in reverse, though.

The high for today is 88 here, but the forecast looks like it will be around 85-86 when I drop the package off, around 5 pm. My hub doesn't accept Express packages later than that, unfortunately. That's one thing I liked about using UPS - I could drop it off much later, making me feel a whole lot better about temps!

 

[Diego Velarde]

Good question Abby

I just shipped out 2 boxes to FL with almost identical weather conditions. It was in the high 70s here and mid 80s over there. One was a big adult, the other were hatchlings. No cold packs were used. I did pierce one ventilation hole on each side on the box (except top and bottom). The snakes made it there perfectly.
Luckily I can drop packages off at FedEx til 9.pm but I assumed I will have to use cold packs eventually...
Does anyone know how cold the inside of the box gets with a cold pack in it?

 

[Abby]

I just shipped out 2 boxes to FL with almost identical weather conditions. It was in the high 70s here and mid 80s over there. One was a big adult, the other were hatchlings. No cold packs were used. I did pierce one ventilation hole on each side on the box (except top and bottom). The snakes made it there perfectly.
Luckily I can drop packages off at FedEx til 9.pm but I assumed I will have to use cold packs eventually...
Does anyone know how cold the inside of the box gets with a cold pack in it?

Thanks for your input Diego I just dropped the box off with 1 cold pack - I also put the box in the fridge all day before packing the snakes up, just for good measure. It was about 85 out, not scorching but hotter than I like.

I would also like to hear if anyone has done any actual testing of temperatures with coldpacks

 

[bradleymoore]

i shipped last summer when it was 106 degrees here (actual temperature without heat index) to new jersey early last august. to me, that was an ignorant decision on my part and it was a 1000g female pied i was shipping. i used a cold pack and everything went fine. not sure what the internal temperature of the box was, but i don't think i'll do it again.

 

[EricIvins]

All my boxes get cold packs now, no matter the destination - I'll continue to do so up untill October.......

I don't plan on a 12 hour travel time like most........I always double potential travel time and pack accordingly, and I've never had any problems using that mindset when doing so........

Besides, Gel Packs are already outdated and ineffiecient........PCM packs or panels are the way to go for any shipping temperature........

 

[Focal]

Great thread Abby. Definitely something I want to hear opinions on and learn from.

 

[snowgyre]

I think you're already fairly experienced with shipping, Abby, so apologies if I'm stating what you already know. Still, if inexperienced people are reading the thread I suppose it's useful information.

When I ship reptiles, I always try to figure out what the transit patterns are. I'm pretty lucky in Athens, GA, for example, since all the packages get sent directly to Atlanta and typically make direct flights to any destination. The easiest way to figure this out is to ship a reptile during excellent weather conditions and then pay attention to the tracking information, paying special attention to all the hops. Once you get a baseline understanding of where the animals are going to be, then you can plan better.

I remember reading a thread on here years ago about somebody who was shipping from hot Arizona to cold New York. They actually placed a heat pack AND a cold pack (in the form of ice cubes) in the same box. The theory was that the heat pack takes several hours to get to peak temperature, and by that time the animals would be out of hot Arizona. In the meantime, the ice cubes would keep the box cool as well as help moderate temperatures in the box later on in the trip. Now, I've never used this method myself, but the theory seems sound at least.

I've used cool packs a few times with leopard geckos, but only when the daytime high is 90F or above, and I try to avoid shipping in those conditions. Also, dropping the package off for the last pickup from your facility is the way to go as well, since you avoid the midday heat.

 

[Abby]

All my boxes get cold packs now, no matter the destination - I'll continue to do so up untill October.......

I don't plan on a 12 hour travel time like most........I always double potential travel time and pack accordingly, and I've never had any problems using that mindset when doing so........

Besides, Gel Packs are already outdated and ineffiecient........PCM packs or panels are the way to go for any shipping temperature........

Thank you very much for contributing to this thread I am very curious about the PCM panels... Are they really as effective as they claim? Where do you get yours? I want to try them out, but I'm always afraid it might not work and then something bad would happen. Yep, I'm a worry-wort.

Great thread Abby. Definitely something I want to hear opinions on and learn from.

Thank you I'm always for passing good knowledge on!

I think you're already fairly experienced with shipping, Abby, so apologies if I'm stating what you already know. Still, if inexperienced people are reading the thread I suppose it's useful information.

When I ship reptiles, I always try to figure out what the transit patterns are. I'm pretty lucky in Athens, GA, for example, since all the packages get sent directly to Atlanta and typically make direct flights to any destination. The easiest way to figure this out is to ship a reptile during excellent weather conditions and then pay attention to the tracking information, paying special attention to all the hops. Once you get a baseline understanding of where the animals are going to be, then you can plan better.

I remember reading a thread on here years ago about somebody who was shipping from hot Arizona to cold New York. They actually placed a heat pack AND a cold pack (in the form of ice cubes) in the same box. The theory was that the heat pack takes several hours to get to peak temperature, and by that time the animals would be out of hot Arizona. In the meantime, the ice cubes would keep the box cool as well as help moderate temperatures in the box later on in the trip. Now, I've never used this method myself, but the theory seems sound at least.

I've used cool packs a few times with leopard geckos, but only when the daytime high is 90F or above, and I try to avoid shipping in those conditions. Also, dropping the package off for the last pickup from your facility is the way to go as well, since you avoid the midday heat.

No need to apologize to me Someone out there can use the info! Thanks! I ended up shipping the snakes and they arrived 100% fine, a little chilly from the cold pack but they weren't any worse for wear. It's funny, I feel 100 times better shipping in 15-30F weather than I do shipping in 85F+ weather. Atleast I know in the cold the temp in the truck isn't going to be much different from the outside temp... In the heat, I've heard those trucks can reach 120F... Scary!

Oh, and for the record... I asked my FedEx driver lady if Express packages are delivered in climate-controlled vehicles. They are NOT... So don't let anyone tell you they are unless your specific hub does this. Mine apparently does not.

 

[EricIvins]

Thank you very much for contributing to this thread I am very curious about the PCM panels... Are they really as effective as they claim? Where do you get yours? I want to try them out, but I'm always afraid it might not work and then something bad would happen. Yep, I'm a worry-wort.

PCMs are a proven technology that's been around for awhile......They can't malfunction like a catalyst operated heat pack, and they last 3x as long as a gel ice pack.......With the way they work, they'll keep the interior of a box at 70 degrees for 30+ hours in normal shipping circumstances, whether hot or cold outside.......

 

[Abby]

PCMs are a proven technology that's been around for awhile......They can't malfunction like a catalyst operated heat pack, and they last 3x as long as a gel ice pack.......With the way they work, they'll keep the interior of a box at 70 degrees for 30+ hours in normal shipping circumstances, whether hot or cold outside.......

Very awesome. I'll have to pick some up

 

[mikeansheleen]

Ok, newbie question....
WTH are "PCM" panels???

 

[Yaz23]

Abby,

I would not use a cold pack regardless of temps for FL. Being that I've been here almost my whole life and I've shipped out dozens of snakes in different times of the year Ive never used a cold pack even when temps were in the 90's. My toughest shipment was an adult Carpet I shipped to Alaska about 2 months ago. The temp here was around 85 and the temp in the city of Alaska was in the high 30's. I put a heat pack in the box before I shipped and he arrived completely fine.

Cold packs are useless in my book, at least with Carpets and Boas that is. The only thing I use is heat packs when needed (generally if it's below 60 in any of the cities where the package will go through).

Just a note: When you ship and look at the weather, don't look at the high because the package will be delivered before the temp gets to that level. The main thing you want to look at is the low, the package will be traveling at night and in the morning so the high has nothing to do with the equation. When you go to your shipping facility go right before the pickup time (the FedEx I go to has a pickup time of 6:45pm), I get there at 6:30pm so even if the temp is a 98 high for that day, at the time I drop the box off it's in the mid 80's. That aside, being that your shipping TO Florida (not from Florida), when the package arrives and is delivered it will not be the 'high' for that day, it will generally be in the mid 80's (at this time of year) because the 'high' hits in the afternoon (yes it unfortunately hits the mid 80's by 10:30am). You can look at hourly weather charts to help you out if your concerened.

Also be sure to look at the connection flight. FedEx packages connect in Memphis TN so the things you look at are:
Your weather
Memphis' weather
Destinations weather

Look at the 'lows' NOT the 'highs', the package will never encounter the 'high' unless it gets delayed and then stays the whole day somewhere.

Sorry for such an elaborate post but thought I'd help others out who may be wondering about shipping too. Hope this helps!

 

[Abby]

Abby,

I would not use a cold pack regardless of temps for FL. Being that I've been here almost my whole life and I've shipped out dozens of snakes in different times of the year Ive never used a cold pack even when temps were in the 90's. My toughest shipment was an adult Carpet I shipped to Alaska about 2 months ago. The temp here was around 85 and the temp in the city of Alaska was in the high 30's. I put a heat pack in the box before I shipped and he arrived completely fine.

Cold packs are useless in my book, at least with Carpets and Boas that is. The only thing I use is heat packs when needed (generally if it's below 60 in any of the cities where the package will go through).

Just a note: When you ship and look at the weather, don't look at the high because the package will be delivered before the temp gets to that level. The main thing you want to look at is the low, the package will be traveling at night and in the morning so the high has nothing to do with the equation. When you go to your shipping facility go right before the pickup time (the FedEx I go to has a pickup time of 6:45pm), I get there at 6:30pm so even if the temp is a 98 high for that day, at the time I drop the box off it's in the mid 80's. That aside, being that your shipping TO Florida (not from Florida), when the package arrives and is delivered it will not be the 'high' for that day, it will generally be in the mid 80's (at this time of year) because the 'high' hits in the afternoon (yes it unfortunately hits the mid 80's by 10:30am). You can look at hourly weather charts to help you out if your concerened.

Also be sure to look at the connection flight. FedEx packages connect in Memphis TN so the things you look at are:
Your weather
Memphis' weather
Destinations weather

Look at the 'lows' NOT the 'highs', the package will never encounter the 'high' unless it gets delayed and then stays the whole day somewhere.

Sorry for such an elaborate post but thought I'd help others out who may be wondering about shipping too. Hope this helps!

I actually do look at hourly charts... For every city the package is visiting on it's route and my hub only accepts packages by 5 pm, so I have to drop off at around 4:30, which it is still blazing hot on a summer day at that time. Doesn't cool off here till around 9-10 pm on a hot day. HATE Ohio

I would never ship a package without a coldpack if it is at 85+ here on my end when I drop off at the hub though... Because I know that the trucks can get really hot with the sun beating down on them. I've lost roaches that I shipped in 85-90F weather without a coldpack, friggin' roaches who are supposed to be indestructable! So I just wouldn't risk that with reptiles. If it is cooled down by the time I drop off though, no need to use one!

I wasn't wanting to use the coldpack for the destination temps, since a coldpack is useless after a few hours of being put in the box anyway It was just for the drop off temps. But after what Eric said, I think I'm going to order some PCM packs and do some tests in various weather conditions. They sound like the way to go, and from my understanding they are also reusable which is a plus.

Also, not ALL packages go to Memphis. I've received and shipped a few to Michigan (right above me, heh) and one from Illinois (2 over) and none of them went to Memphis, they go to Indianapolis and straight to me (or them). So it really depends on how far you're shipping. I do check Memphis just in case though, as I know it is typically way hotter there than it is here. I'm glad to know FedEx doesn't take my packages out of their way though, as when I shipped with UPS they always went to Louisville even if I was shipping NORTH of Ohio... Nice that FedEx doesn't do that.

Thanks for your input Always good to hear other's experiences, especially from different parts of the country - will help someone out there!

 

[Yaz23]

No prob!

When I read the posts I must have missed the part where you need to drop the packages off so early! 4:30?! Thats extremely early! If I had to drop packages off that early it would still be in the high 90's-100! I can see why you'd use cold packs then!

As far as other connecting cities, that's true it just depends how far the shipment has to go. I just never thought about it because when I ship via FedEx they always connect in Memphis and when I ship UPS they always connect in Louisville.

Good thread Abby!

 

[lauraleellbp]

We did a little bit of experiementing with cold packs shipping aquarium plants a few years back.

IDK that we got enough data to be "scientifically significant," but the results were pretty consistent:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lounge-introductions/69083-gel-thermapack-shipping.html

 

[Abby]

We did a little bit of experiementing with cold packs shipping aquarium plants a few years back.

IDK that we got enough data to be "scientifically significant," but the results were pretty consistent:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lounge-introductions/69083-gel-thermapack-shipping.html

Very interesting! Thanks for sharing

 

[Bill T]

Has any one tried the phase22 packs

 

[kgmax1228]

PCM'S

PCMs are a proven technology that's been around for awhile......They can't malfunction like a catalyst operated heat pack, and they last 3x as long as a gel ice pack.......With the way they work, they'll keep the interior of a box at 70 degrees for 30+ hours in normal shipping circumstances, whether hot or cold outside.......

where do you get them?