Bad Guy V.I.I.P.E.R.--THIEVES!!

[Khaman]

Well in light of the revelation that at least twice as many were printed as was originally disclosed you may have no recourse but to seek legal action. If only to find out how many were printed and their current whereabouts.

 

[King_of_Colubrids]

Well for starters, I have not replied until I was able to get my facts. To start there where a total of 10 stickers made one was put on the board that was at the show, 2 where stolen and the rest had been sold, they where sold mostly in Sept, and I know we did sell at least 1 maybe 2 at the show, that's where we sold out of them. Venumfairy has no say over what happens in the Hampton Roads area, story over there. I e-mailed Bobby a picture of the sticker that you had posted on CS to see if he liked the idea, I had told him I had been working on an idea like it. I found out that Bobby e-mailed it to the guy that made the stickers, I did tell the guy I wanted to go along the same idea frame but different, I never saw a draft of it or anything, I only saw the end product. So will repaet I did not steal the design, showed it to Bobby even asked if the group should order some and he didn't want to pay the $8.50 for them, he wanted the group to have there own. Those are the facts folks and that's that. I am done on this issue, and will not be back to post more about it.

Taking a photograph of a picture that I created, and using it to make replicas because you don't want to pay the price I am asking is STEALING!.

And with the implication of Bobby Jenkins, the PRESIDENT of the CLUB as a willing participant in the matter, I will re-post my admonitions against the group, and I will be seeking a lawyer.

So...now I not only have the proof, but I have the admittance of guilt and the implication of the president of the group as a perpetrator. C'est la vie. I tried to make it easy...

 

[King_of_Colubrids]

And the lies just keep mounting.

At this rate, I will just let Amanda and Bobby continue digging their own holes deeper. The two of them can't even get their stories straight together:

From: 'Venom Fairy' <[email protected]> Sent: Mon Nov 24 20:51

To: [email protected] Priority: Normal

Subject: Re: Hi there Type: Embeded HTML/Text


One more e-mail sweety. It appears that our founder found the logo on Google and assumed we could use it and that it was not Amanda.

I am resigning from VIIPER because I has worked so hard on it but they just ignore me.

Thanks for contacting us hun.

 

[jayefbe]

Yeah, they're just looking worse and worse right now. The lying just needs to stop.

 

[TrulyRare]

Hmm...well that sucks. It really sucks when good people in a group as a whole, go down because of the people who are running it ruin it for everyone else. Just like Forums..good Forums go down, because of some moderators with bad attitudes. It sucks. If those people have anyyyy respect for any of the members of their group, they should have fessed up in the first place, and realize what they are doing is very much illegal and they will and can be prosecuted. I do NOT like a theif. And I have NO respect for a liar. I am starting a Herp Society in my area, and I will not tolerate such acts in my club. It's sad that these people think, just because they are running something that's great for this hobby they are allowed to bend rules and cheat people. I'm sorry but it doesn't work that way. Chris worked hard to get where he's at, and to have gained the respect that he has. I respect him and will continue to support him ...as of thus. I hope that these people, realize that they are ruining their name, even more so, now that their lies are out in the open. It's really funny how she "never saw it" and now she "borrowed" it..LMAO..come on...We aren't retarded, and last time I checked you gotta be able to read to be on a forum. And I do believe everyone else read what I read. ...All I can say is. L I A R.

 

[simplechamp]

Yeah, they're just looking worse and worse right now. The lying just needs to stop.

I totally agree. First it's 10 stickers. Then 7. Then 17, no wait, 14 thrown in the garbage? The credibility ship is sinking fast.

You would think the PRESIDENT of the group would have known about the other stickers. So best case scenario: he is clueless about what goes on in the organization. Worst case scenario: he knows everything and lied about it, giving a bogus apology to sweep it under the rug and end the fuss. Either way it doesn't bode well for them.

All of a sudden another member comes along with another 14-17 of the stickers being thrown away. Is there any communication within the group at all?

Come on VIIPER. Think about what it would have taken to remedy this right from the start, and look at what is happening now.

 

[jayefbe]

It really looks like VIIPER attempted to skip straight to fixing the PR mess without actually rectifying the situation.

 

[Nanci]

I'm not clear on this point: if all the stickers were sold by September, how did at least two people see them for sale, by V.I.P.E.R. at the Richmond show in October?

 

[Nanci]

Nevermind, I missed this whole next page...Good luck getting this resolved, Chris.

 

[ForkedTung]

Well for starters, I have not replied until I was able to get my facts. To start there where a total of 10 stickers made one was put on the board that was at the show, 2 where stolen and the rest had been sold, they where sold mostly in Sept, and I know we did sell at least 1 maybe 2 at the show, that's where we sold out of them. Venumfairy has no say over what happens in the Hampton Roads area, story over there. I e-mailed Bobby a picture of the sticker that you had posted on CS to see if he liked the idea, I had told him I had been working on an idea like it. I found out that Bobby e-mailed it to the guy that made the stickers, I did tell the guy I wanted to go along the same idea frame but different, I never saw a draft of it or anything, I only saw the end product. So will repaet I did not steal the design, showed it to Bobby even asked if the group should order some and he didn't want to pay the $8.50 for them, he wanted the group to have there own. Those are the facts folks and that's that. I am done on this issue, and will not be back to post more about it.

LIAR!!!
This whole thing could have been solved so easily and with minimal pain in approximately one email:
"Sorry Chris ,we found it online, thought it looked cool and without thinking started to make some stickers, in hindsight that was pretty stupid. We sincerely apologize and have removed it from our website with an explanation giving you credit, destroyed all copies ( at printer as well) and would like to forward to you the monies we made from it's sale. I sthere anything else we could do to make this up to you? R.I.I.P.E.R. - O.F.F.

PS) Rextiles gave you kharma to make up for mistaken neg. from Chris

 

[JudyC]

Well for starters, I have not replied until I was able to get my facts.

Guess you should have waited longer and consulted more carefully with everyone else involved. And I recant my statement about Bobby not needing any grilling. What a stinking pile of old fish-heads. Sometimes it only takes a small thing to show a huge lack of integrity and professionalism in an organization or business. If I were a member of VIIPER, I'd either resign, or take necessary steps to see it come under new management.

 

[King_of_Colubrids]

Well...they may not need to resign, if I have anything to say about it. I have taken about as much of the lying and stealing from one group of individuals as I can handle.

I am going to be contacting a lawyer. These people chose the wrong person on this issue. I'm not a pushover, and anyone that knows me will tell you that I am anything but afraid to stand up for myself, and I don't quit until I am satisfied.

I have saved all of the email corespondance, and I know Rich will not delete this thread, wherein their admittance of guilt is plain to see. I may not get any money out of this ordeal, but I may have the satisfaction of seeing this group disbanded, and I can at least pound home the point to these people that you CANNOT DO THIS STUFF!!

Perhaps if I get a lawyer involved, these people will finally understand what they did, why it is wrong, and I can help to protect others from having it happen to them.

And people wonder why I prefer the company of snakes to humans...

 

[King_of_Colubrids]

Just to be up front about it all, this is the last email I just sent to VIIPER:

Status: Message successfully sent

To: 'Venom Fairy' <[email protected]>

Cc:

Subject: Re: Hi there



I have decided to contact a lawyer. I have the original images, as well as a saved copy of the image from your website and a screenshot of the image giving credit to someone else. I also have saved a screenshot of the screen that had the stickers listed as being for sale. ALl of this is proof enough for any judge of maliscious intent and intentional theft.

All of the lying and deciet coming from Amanda and Bobby is too much. To this minute, neither one have stood up and said, "I stole your image. I'm sorry." All they have done is lay blame, point fingers, get their stories confused, and try to gain sympathies and understanding.

I am sorry that your entire organization is going to suffer because of this. I am sorry that all of your members will have to learn of this. I am sorry that those two people could not man up and do the right thing. This all could have been over with so easily, but they didn't want to stop lying.

Now...I have no way of knowing how many stickers were created(was it 7 or 10 or 14 or 17 or...???), no idea where or how the stickers were sold, and no way of knowing whether this will happen to me again in the future. I certainly cannot take Amanda and Bobby at their word...they have proven that their word isn't worth the spittle that flies when they give it.

I really, really tried to make this easy. I really tried to let it go away. But the continued lying and deciet to try and save face is just overwhelming, and at this point..I only have one recourse.

http://KingofColubrids.com
Captive Bred King and Corn Snakes

 

[brrrman]

Amanda,
First you wrote

The fact that I have had the idea since march and had the design here at my home since then

but then you wrote

I e-mailed Bobby a picture of the sticker that you had posted on CS to see if he liked the idea, I had told him I had been working on an idea like it

And so on

I'm not saying you took my design, all I said was I came up with the idea back in March. I also said we no longer are selling the sticker. There were all of 10 stickers made up. They where all sold

And so on

To start there where a total of 10 stickers made one was put on the board that was at the show, 2 where stolen and the rest had been sold,

Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!
Sir Walter Scott,

Notice I gave credit for sir Walters Quote, even though I was thinking of something exactly like it.
Phil R.

 

[ArpeggioAngel]

It is really sad to see an organization that is supposed to be doing good for the herp community let itself get enbroiled in a dispute like this. It would look so much better for them and the herp community as a whole if the offenders would have just owned up to the mistake, apologized and everyone could have moved on.
By lying, backtracking, pointing fingers etc on top of the original issue of stealing the image...it makes the group look deceitful and underhanded which I am sure is not the image they are trying to achieve.

Chris gave them every opportunity to make this right and I think he has been very fair in his approach and attempted dealings with them. It is unfortunate that they have not been as forthcoming as one would hope in a situation like this but in the end, they will reap what they have sown.

 

[Dennis Hultman]

I am done on this issue, and will not be back to post more about it.

That's fine and dandy but I think you should reconsider.

I e-mailed Bobby a picture of the sticker that you had posted on CS to see if he liked the idea, I had told him I had been working on an idea like it. I found out that Bobby e-mailed it to the guy that made the stickers, I did tell the guy I wanted to go along the same idea frame but different, I never saw a draft of it or anything, I only saw the end product. So will repaet I did not steal the design, showed it to Bobby even asked if the group should order some and he didn't want to pay the $8.50 for them, he wanted the group to have there own. Those are the facts folks and that's that.

Those or the facts? Compared to your other facts posted earlier.

We did not steal his idea I was the one that came up with the idea back in March of this year, the group had 10 made and that's all, we sold them at cost as I thought it was something fun and cute to do, we have not had any more made and now plan not to either. I had no idea there was anything like it out there already. I have already told the web master to remove it from the site as we have been out of them for a while, and seeing how I am now being blasted and labled a Bad guy before I was even asked about where I got the idea, it's not worth it to me to keep going with them I will do a totally different design and copyright it next time. The fact that I have had the idea since march and had the design here at my home since then just didn't have them made until later in the year to make sure there would be an interest in them,

First you had no idea that there was anything else like it out there then you admit to showing a copy of it and they ran some off. That's fine if you don't want to clear up the two vastly different posts, it's your name.

No, if you just would have posted the truth the first time and apologized, it would have been over and done quick.

but I guess that makes us bad people and love how we get blasted for trying to help the herps and keep them from just being turned loose or killed.

Amanda
Viiper Sec.

Oh please, we were just trying to help the community so don't bust me for being a liar. You got to be kidding me. Helping herps doesn't give you carte blanche to be dishonest. I would suggest you put some effort in addressing this further.

 

[Thomas E]

This is interesting, Bobby was going to throw her under the bus to look like a good guy, so she pipes in with how much Bobby himself had a hand in the decision to steal the image.
I think the whole Viiper den is rotten as long as they have representatives (President even!) who like Chris' sticker and just 'don't want to pay the 8.50'.

 

[shed'n my skin]

http://www.viiper.us/shop.htm
Unbelievable, with all that is going on, they should at least have taken it off their merchandise for sale page by now?

 

[Kiote_9]

It seems the VIIPER website is under construction.

 

[TrulyRare]

I saw, it and it's still there....Hmmm...not smart...