kmurphy
New member
Don't they go hand and hand? For my part it is more protection of the buyers. The scammers will still make money, unfortunately, just not on this site.
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"Vendors with issues in the BOI"
- Thread starter Chameleon Company
- Start date
Don't they go hand and hand? For my part it is more protection of the buyers. The scammers will still make money, unfortunately, just not on this site.
SPJ
Well-known member
Per request, I am moving this from the BOI thread to this thread.
Steve,
Wouldn't it be possible for a couple of determined people to put up some groundless complaints on the BOI and thereby deprive an innocent vendor of his privilege to advertise? Not every BOI complaint turns out to be warranted.
Wouldn't it be possible for a couple of determined people to put up some groundless complaints on the BOI and thereby deprive an innocent vendor of his privilege to advertise? Not every BOI complaint turns out to be warranted.
Well, let me throw this idea out here so you can all beat it into a bloody pulp.... 
And, btw, no I haven't thought through all of the ramifications of the details, so upon some deeper thought, it may be a bigger mouthful to chew on than I am willing to bite off. Tax season is HERE, breeding season is coming up. Time will be an issue.....
Anyway, here it goes.....
How about making this a more "closed loop" kind of system? Anyone permitted to post classified ads would have to be a paid member AND willing to participate in the Good Guy Certification Program? Anyone who gets voted OUT of that program loses their membership here as well as their capability of participating in posting classified ads.
That will do a couple of things. First off, it transforms the GGC into more of a BOI light with simple thumbsup or thumbsdown voting. It also keeps the decision of who is a good guy or a bad guy in YOUR hands and not in MINE. There will be a direct link on every advertisers website (as per the requirements of participating here in this program, which anyone can easily use to reference their status.
I may have to ask someone to take over this program, as it most certainly will take much more time than I will have to allocate to the management of it. As it is now, I am certain there are several members in the GGC certification program who have either let their memberships lapse, or failed to meet the requirements of having the GGC banner on their website. I just can't follow up on all of that. Heck, I have a few applicants already in the queue until I can get around to making up more of those GGC banners!
So poke some holes in the idea...............
As for search links, any programmer will tell you the weaknesses in that proposal. Intelligent fuzzy searches CAN be implemented but that are prone to a lot of errors. And you would still need to have your own brain power utilized to make the search effective. No program is really going to know everything YOU do about who you are searching for. So YOU will still be the one who needs to fill in the blanks.
And, btw, no I haven't thought through all of the ramifications of the details, so upon some deeper thought, it may be a bigger mouthful to chew on than I am willing to bite off. Tax season is HERE, breeding season is coming up. Time will be an issue.....Anyway, here it goes.....
How about making this a more "closed loop" kind of system? Anyone permitted to post classified ads would have to be a paid member AND willing to participate in the Good Guy Certification Program? Anyone who gets voted OUT of that program loses their membership here as well as their capability of participating in posting classified ads.
That will do a couple of things. First off, it transforms the GGC into more of a BOI light with simple thumbsup or thumbsdown voting. It also keeps the decision of who is a good guy or a bad guy in YOUR hands and not in MINE. There will be a direct link on every advertisers website (as per the requirements of participating here in this program, which anyone can easily use to reference their status.
I may have to ask someone to take over this program, as it most certainly will take much more time than I will have to allocate to the management of it. As it is now, I am certain there are several members in the GGC certification program who have either let their memberships lapse, or failed to meet the requirements of having the GGC banner on their website. I just can't follow up on all of that. Heck, I have a few applicants already in the queue until I can get around to making up more of those GGC banners!
So poke some holes in the idea...............
As for search links, any programmer will tell you the weaknesses in that proposal. Intelligent fuzzy searches CAN be implemented but that are prone to a lot of errors. And you would still need to have your own brain power utilized to make the search effective. No program is really going to know everything YOU do about who you are searching for. So YOU will still be the one who needs to fill in the blanks.
Cheryl Marchek AKA JM
New member
First hole to chew: All advertisers would have to own a web site. A lot of good people who want to sell an animal or two, or a cage, or spare rats don't happen to own a website.
Cheryl Marchek AKA JM
New member
But thats another thought~ for those that do have a GGC~ or those that have had one in the past and it was pulled for whatever reason~ how about a link in our little user profile at the side to our GGC? That would help buyers and actual good guy sellers. And I think a lot of people forget about the GGC (I admit~ I have one and was not giving good votes for things I purchased because I forgot about it!)
ms_terese
Irrelevant User
I think the tools are in place for protection of the buyers. The GGC's can be suspended if the negative votes outweigh the positives. Searches can be done on the BOI. Trader ratings can be researched.
There may be some validity in adding a search feature "stickied" to the top of the classifieds, and urge people to check there. However, you can't protect people from themselves. If someone is not going to check out a vendor, then they are not able to be protected. I think implementing a "bad guy list" is making an assumption that people are not intelligent enough to make their own determinations.
Cheryl Marchek AKA JM
New member
I keep trying to say something~ and I think I am not coming across with my thought clearly (I tend to do that a lot).
I think IF you want to make it a change~ don't just look for the negative. That sucks. IF you want to make a change make one that highlights whats already here and gives recognition of the "Good Guy" threads as well as the "Bad guy" threads.
I think IF you want to make it a change~ don't just look for the negative. That sucks. IF you want to make a change make one that highlights whats already here and gives recognition of the "Good Guy" threads as well as the "Bad guy" threads.
Wilomn
New member
Some of us who are good guys don't want GGCs. I suppose we, or me since I can't really speak for anyone else, will simply be unable to post classifieds here simply because my faith and liking for the GGC is not sufficient for me to want one again.
It's no big deal but some of the little guys will get squished were this to be put into practice.
It's no big deal but some of the little guys will get squished were this to be put into practice.
ravensgait
Convoluted Member
Here Be Dragons!! or in this case Bad Guys.
Should be interesting to see where this leads...Randy
Should be interesting to see where this leads...Randy
shrap
Freelance Philosopher
I am in the same boat as Wes to a degree. I dont want a GGC. For myself personally I never believed in the system in the first place.
Matt at MG Reptiles is just one of the reasons why. He has ran around putting negative votes on very respected peoples banners for no reason what so ever. Another reason being is that the GGC, much like the Trader Rating, is available to less than 1 percent of my customers. It is basically a reflection of the thoughts of a very small group of Fauna regulars. Not a true reflection of my business ethics or a reflection of 99 plus percent my true customer base's thoughts.
Wes is dead on, tying the GCC to this is just going to squish the little guy and make people like me who dont believe in the GCC not advertise here at all.
Matt at MG Reptiles is just one of the reasons why. He has ran around putting negative votes on very respected peoples banners for no reason what so ever. Another reason being is that the GGC, much like the Trader Rating, is available to less than 1 percent of my customers. It is basically a reflection of the thoughts of a very small group of Fauna regulars. Not a true reflection of my business ethics or a reflection of 99 plus percent my true customer base's thoughts.
Wes is dead on, tying the GCC to this is just going to squish the little guy and make people like me who dont believe in the GCC not advertise here at all.
kmurphy
New member
It does seem that if it is linked to the GGC, as it is now, then it limits who can advertise. You would need to implement some way of awarding a GGC without a web site or having sold an animal.
An improved search function, (meaning put it right out front and with instructions) would bring all good and bad guy threads out. Putting it in the Classifieds would work as long as that search leads to the BOI. If I am searching for say "High End Herps" I don't also need to be weeding through the job posting, anything in "Just for Laughs" or anyplace else they are mentioned. I can see the advantage of the Intelligent Fuzzy search but for this function I think it wouldn't gain much. I am more worried that someone typing "Upstate Exotics" without the "and" doesn't get all the posts with just the word "exotics"
Then as Terese says, if I read the BOI and after all the neg. I see still choose to buy thats my choice, if there is a snake for sale on the classifieds and I choose to ignore the bad guy posts then its my choice. You can't make the decision for me on who to buy from or not to buy.
As far as the GGC I don't have a web site and more than likely won't for a long while. Yet if I want to sell one of my animals I should be able to. I don't think tying the classifieds to GGC is a good idea. Paid membership maybe??
Then as Terese says, if I read the BOI and after all the neg. I see still choose to buy thats my choice, if there is a snake for sale on the classifieds and I choose to ignore the bad guy posts then its my choice. You can't make the decision for me on who to buy from or not to buy.
As far as the GGC I don't have a web site and more than likely won't for a long while. Yet if I want to sell one of my animals I should be able to. I don't think tying the classifieds to GGC is a good idea. Paid membership maybe??
christopher66
Endowment Member
Why not a search function in the add itself by the sellers name.Just like the the trader rating function under member names here.
All people have to do is click, and the pertinent info will or will not come up.
All people have to do is click, and the pertinent info will or will not come up.
Wilomn
New member
Too many change names too often.christopher66 said:
Chameleon Company
New member
Got some input
Big storms knocked out power here today, and I just got it back. Wanted to follow up on a concern of Lucille's:
This is where the committee comes in. Again, it would be called something akin to "Vendor's with Issues", although the slang for it may well become something like "The Fauna $hit List", and it would take reliable and proven evidence to get on it. That would be hashed out in BOI threads, just as it is now. The "committee" could debate it back in a mod-forum or such, while a few would likely participate in the regular thread. It will be up to the committee to root out the "groundless complaints", which is not hard to do in a thread, again just as it is done now. It will take 2-3 independent confirmed infractions to make the list. Nothing lightweight. "He said - she said's" won't be good enough. I think experienced members here are very good at separating the weed from the chaff. Right now, I can only imagine 5-10 entities max being on the list. The idea grew out of current threads regarding such as Scott Sanchez and Bobby Pruett still being able to use Fauna and other sites to rip folks off. People would click on that list, if it were highlighted well enough, and get 5-10 names stuck in their heads as to whom to avoid before ever being exposed to them via an ad somehwere. That would be its power. It will generate huge awareness beyond what the BOI currently does. It would become the ultimate list in our business not to be on, and that would popularize it.
Every comment that I have seen indicates that we all want it easier for the BOI to aid newbies as to who the habitual scammers are. My goal was only to solicit concerns and ideas, and maybe plant some seeds for future considerations. I owe a few posts some karma ... thanks
Big storms knocked out power here today, and I just got it back. Wanted to follow up on a concern of Lucille's:
This is where the committee comes in. Again, it would be called something akin to "Vendor's with Issues", although the slang for it may well become something like "The Fauna $hit List", and it would take reliable and proven evidence to get on it. That would be hashed out in BOI threads, just as it is now. The "committee" could debate it back in a mod-forum or such, while a few would likely participate in the regular thread. It will be up to the committee to root out the "groundless complaints", which is not hard to do in a thread, again just as it is done now. It will take 2-3 independent confirmed infractions to make the list. Nothing lightweight. "He said - she said's" won't be good enough. I think experienced members here are very good at separating the weed from the chaff. Right now, I can only imagine 5-10 entities max being on the list. The idea grew out of current threads regarding such as Scott Sanchez and Bobby Pruett still being able to use Fauna and other sites to rip folks off. People would click on that list, if it were highlighted well enough, and get 5-10 names stuck in their heads as to whom to avoid before ever being exposed to them via an ad somehwere. That would be its power. It will generate huge awareness beyond what the BOI currently does. It would become the ultimate list in our business not to be on, and that would popularize it.
Every comment that I have seen indicates that we all want it easier for the BOI to aid newbies as to who the habitual scammers are. My goal was only to solicit concerns and ideas, and maybe plant some seeds for future considerations. I owe a few posts some karma ... thanks
Chameleon Company
New member
Don't forget too, if someone changes names, such as Ray's Reptilia has done, as soon as it is outed in the BOI, the "new" name goes up in the lights as an "AKA" etc. Puts a little more bite in the sleuthing !
SPJ
Well-known member
If you can't delete ads from crooks due to liability problems, what about deleting ads for items being sold that are illegal?
These fish are illegal in ALL of NY but here is an ad for them on Fauna from a seller in NY who is willing to ship or sell them locally to another person in NY.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=484988#post484988
These fish are illegal in ALL of NY but here is an ad for them on Fauna from a seller in NY who is willing to ship or sell them locally to another person in NY.
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=484988#post484988