venomous dealers out of control

[bud mierkey]

humm new guys make me laugh

I never named any names and that is it.
You use the statement with all posts or replys.

I just am having fun with the new guy.
He seemed like he wanted to make a big connection.
He thinks he did.
There are others that use the term.
but hey let him name you if he wants to.
Its his post.

Red carpet

This topic is dealers out of control.
lets keep it on this topic

If you want to just fight go to the hell forum
look up the hate bud arena.
I will meet you there!
other wise stay on topic.

 

[COBRAMAN]

I never named any names and that is it. You use the statement with all posts or replys.
I just am having fun with the new guy.
He seemed like he wanted to make a big connection.
He thinks he did.
There are others that use the term.
but hey let him name you if he wants to.
Its his post.

OK, Bud, No problem.
Ray

 

[taphillip]

Ray,
Not sure how this thread started to point it's nasty little finger your way. I suppose I should have posted an update. The dealer was in California, which is a major NO NO to begin with. and I did find out more info regarding the whole situation. ( the guy actually called back???) And yes the dealer did tell him that the angusticeps is not a lethal species. He was also told that for a kaouthia bite all they do is inject oxygen into the site of the bite.....?
Let me reiterate this. there is no way in Hell that this person could have fooled ANYONE into thinking that he knew what he was talking about. I asked him if it was an aussie or NG death adder....his answer was I thought they were found in S. Africa........
Ray, since you are the only dealer posting here, Let me just say this, I know there are some smart idiots out there, but please take that little extra time in questioning people when you sell dangerous species to people! Especially in my state, as I am the only source of AV for people here and in most states close to here. Not that you don't, I have never dealt with you before, all I 'm saying is that in a 5 minute conversation you can tell if someone should be working advanced venomous snakes!

 

[taphillip]

OH! how could I forget this.....
He said quote " I live in an apartment that does not allow pets, so I have them at a friends house, they said I didn't have to but I thought that for safety sake I should put a pad lock on the cage. Just in case"
Holy crap!!!!!!!

 

[COBRAMAN]

taphillip
Thank you for your post to clear up matters. After reading your post, I am sickened by that person's total disregard for the safety of others, not to mention his stupidity. Know that I do all I can to make sure that I sell to responsible people only. I oftenspen far more than 5 minutes questioning customers. Most of the people I sell to are repeat customers that I know well, but venomous reptiles shows can be a real problem (I don't do these shows anymore). I had a guy at Columbia, S.C. try to buy a Naja haje from me after telling me how repulsed he was of venomous snakes (go figure). Obviously I refused to sell to him.

Again, thank you for your post.

Blessings
Ray

 

[snakegetters]

Originally posted by taphillip The dealer was in California, which is a major NO NO to begin with. and I did find out more info regarding the whole situation. ( the guy actually called back???) And yes the dealer did tell him that the angusticeps is not a lethal species. He was also told that for a kaouthia bite all they do is inject oxygen into the site of the bite.....?

Aiyeee. I wish I could believe that the guy was just yanking your chain. This is some majorly scary stuff. Do you think there is any chance that somebody is playing an elaborate practical joke on you?

 

[taphillip]

Tanith,
No, no one is playing a practical joke on me. This is actually the fourth time in the last 12 months this same exact type of thing has happened. The first time was the worst one.
a guy in North Dakota, (long story short) he owned a corn snake and a pair of corn snakes. he ordered a New Guinea Taipan and a Black Mamba, both wild caught...
This sort of thing happens a tremendous amount. When working for a zoo, we get the calls from all the idiots from all over the country, basically because the idiots don't know who else to call that works with venomous snakes.
This is one reason why most zoo people hate the private sector. because we never get the calls from the intelligent responsible keepers, they know other intelligent responsible people. the only calls we get are from the idiots! Which far outnumber the smart keepers

 

[bud mierkey]

And it bold down to one thing The dealers!

They are out of control and nobody seems to want to bring it up.
They will say we do are best to check them out.
I have had two dealers ask if I had experiance or a permit.
Thats it!
No names named I don't mean RAY ok?
And I used to spend a nice chunk of change on snakes.
Before I found out about all the skulldugery involved in the hot reptile trade.
In the usa ITS AS BAD AS RAY HOSERS OZ.
its regulation time AND I DONT CARE If SOME BODY SAYs YOU CAN NOT OWN OR BUY A SNAke ITs about time this is halted.
If we lose a few rights so be it.
Soon I will no longer gasp in fear when I hear this crap.
Good luck is all I will say I have had 30 years of hots
and lots of good memories.
I might move to a secluded area that has its own hots and enjoy them without messing with them.
oui theres the rub!

 

[redcarpet]

Bud,

1st of all let me say sorry about blowing up on you.I thought you were talking about Ray.

I heared a phone call today,The guy wanted a Western Rattler.He had already got one from someone.The person had shipped it via Airborne,NO BAG JUST NEWSPAPER AND A STANDERD AIRBORNE BOX.The guy saw nothing wrong with this.The customer and the shipper are at fault!

Let me just say that I would never sell to this person.He was saying the only reason why he keeps rattlers is because they always worn you before they strike.I tried not to laugh at this stupid statment,but what can you do.

 

[bud mierkey]

here is a clear violation of the lacy act

The shipper was zooalogical based in miami fl
see if anythings done if not everyone can ship hots UPS
There has been no retraction!


THE TRIBUNE (Bismark, N Dakota) 09 July 04 Next time, try a dog or cat instead (Frederic Smith)
What gets into some people? Last week, two young Bismarck men were arrested for keeping four deadly snakes in their apartment. "I live near the hospital, so I wasn't worried," said one. Police, more worried about their neighbors, slapped the men with a charge of reckless endangerment.
The incident recalls the Bismarck man of a few years ago whose apartment mate was an adult bobcat. Neighbors complained -- go figure -- when they discovered the cat roaming the hallways.
In the present case, some would give the men credit for having checked state law and finding no prohibition of poisonous snakes. They never thought to check for the city ordinance against "dangerous animals." But who with the sense he was born with needs a law or an ordinance? One of the men disputed the police contention that his death adder and East African green mamba were No. 10 and 11 on the most-dangerous list.
They're No. 2 and 3, he said, proudly.
People are getting into trouble all the time for ownership of inappropriate animals and too many animals. Remember the Sykeston man on whose farm officers seized three bobcat-sized African wildcats -- along with 38 hunting dogs, 47 birds, two hedgehogs, 51 Asian flying squirrels and a gecko, all suffering from neglect?
Not that people are lacking for encouragement of their peculiar tastes. Why federal law doesn't have more to say about the companies that supply these "exotic" pets -- including the baby alligators that are so popular back East -- is an enduring mystery.
The Florida company that furnished three of the deadly Bismarck snakes shipped them UPS. Does the law care about that? If not, why not? And were the various UPS employees along the line made aware of what they were handling?
It remains true that, if you're going to have a pet, a dog or cat is probably challenging enough. They are deep and remarkable companions that reward years of cultivation, and it's hard to imagine the person who has really got to the bottom of them and requires the stimulation of a poisonous snake, wildcat or alligator.
At the same time, the dog and cat weren't domesticated thousands of years ago for nothing; they've had so much practice being around people and around the house that it's in their genes.
In a word, they're appropriate, where the poisonous snake, wildcat or alligator is not. It's not a subtle or difficult distinction, but one that, alas, is still lost on some people.
Next time, try a dog or cat instead

 

[Seamus Haley]

The shipper was zooalogical based in miami fl
see if anythings done if not everyone can ship hots UPS
There has been no retraction!

Zoological 2000 also hasn't addressed it though, to my knowledge. It could easily still be poor reporting Bud, a lack of a retraction isn't really proof.

 

[bud mierkey]

hello seamus

Your right as always.
Thanks for not calling me names and starting it up.
If there is no retraction, we will see if there are charges are filed.
Then We will see what happens next.
This is not the boi forum also.
later

 

[Mustangrde1]

I’ve said it on other forums this story has shown up on. First the Media always blows these reports so far out of proportion its not funny so take it with a grain of salt.

Next with Mario being in business for so long and knowing the laws and the penalties it’s very hard to believe he would risk his business and the fines to ship illegally.

Also in the original article it states the Ordinance the persons violated was that of keeping dangerous animals.

Who actually dictates what a dangerous animal is and what is not. Statistically speaking Horses, Dogs, Cats, Parrots and other animals people would conceder domestic harmless pets have a much higher rate of physical attacks and fatalities then Reptiles. The CDC “Center for Decease Controls" statistics show that clearly.

This link will give some stats on snake bites in the US annually

http://www.fpnotebook.com/ER7.htm
45,000 bites of that 8,000 are venomous of that 12 or less are fatal.

Compared to Dogs as cited by the CDC.

http://www.cdc.gov/epo/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm

You may also wish to do a search on the CDC site for other animal injuries you will see just how low venomous rank on it.

Here is the Bismarck Law itself

http://www.bismarck.org/uploads/doc_Title_3_-_Animal_Control_and_Protection..pdf

If we go by their definitions of “Dangerous” Any animal could be construed as dangerous so where is the line drawn. Yes I see it said poisonous or sting but goes on to mention size and propensity to be bite as well as aggression.

The law is there yes to protect people, but is in its writing a very bad law. If we went by stats any animal could be construed as “dangerous” Keep in mind as well North Dakota has no regulations regarding venomous snake ownership.

IT IS NOT the responsibility of the Import/ exporter to know every law and ordinance in the world. IT IS the responsibility of the buyer to know their local laws. You can not fault the Seller if he/she is in good faith selling the animal under the known laws of the state.

We also CAN NOT and DO NOT always have ways to verify the skill level or knowledge level of a person we sell to. I can spend a week online and reading books and be able to fool a seller as to my skills and knowledge. Vendors have to use good faith and judgment based on what they hear from the potential buyer.

And again if you believe what the PRESS puts out you’re a fool. I have been on hand of an envenomation that did make the news and the reports were so incorrect it was not funny. The Media had to make it sound like it was extremely life threatening for people to read it. So they used buzz words to spice it up. Not at all out of the ordinary for the media, actually is more the norm.

As to these two people unless they actually come on a site and post their accounts we will never know the truth.

 

[bud mierkey]

bismark ords

That bismark ordinance was quite interesting .
The unalterd dog or cat section was funny.
Its funny a dog I found tangled up in its cable in my yard was fixed but it still snapped me in the face nearly missing me.
I think each dog has its own personality nutered or not .
but its their ordinance.
I wonder how many people observe the reptile ordinances in their citys?
good post

 

[taphillip]

I was directly involved in the whole proceeding. Yes, the animals were shipped UPS labeled as lizards, they have the reciepts. Yes the buyers were idiots and yes the dealer could have avoided the whole thing. There was never a snake related statement made by the buyer to me, to the police, to the dealer or the media that could have even in the most remote possibility made ANYONE think that this individual had ANY experience, let alone enough for a mamba. Both the buyer and the dealer were completely at fault in their own respective areas, both of which have accepted their individual responsibilities.
Yes, the media does say some silly things as a norm where these things are concerned. Other than only using part of a couple of my sentences thus altering my direct meaning, they reported very acurately...considering.
I can't quite understand how/why everyone is defending the buyer. It's like everyone is living in LA LA land and doesn't want to accept that 95% of the reptile keeping population...simply, just shouldn't.
I would like to know what the neysayers on this topic think as to what qualifies someone to own a mamba? enough money to buy one? Well then, like I said before, if the SERIOUS private collectors don't stand together and rid themselves of the testosterone backed fools and start policing themselves then, next time it might be your collection next.

 

[bud mierkey]

As I thought!

The buyer was under screened by the dealer.
The dealer Then shipped the order circumnavigating all the laws!
If the papers ID if the dealer is correct.
Its time for this to go to BOI!
We got some bad guys slinging deadly herps.
Try to buy a gun its not as simple why not with a deadly herp?
I we don't act we all lose!
I thought some of this new license fee would go to Enforcement!

 

[Mustangrde1]

Terry if this is all true please post the pictures of the receipt and the shipping box and receipt and all other information that can prove it. To many times we have heard rumors or accusations with any proof being made for our veiwing to back up the statements. Im not saying your lieing im asking for direct proof so if there are problems the community can be made aware of it.

As to who / whom may own any venomous snake. I firmly feel all states really should adoupt the FL venomous permiting system. It may have some flaws but it is the best out there so far. atleast then we know or hope that everyone would do the right thing from the trainee to the inspecting officers. If its fallowed through with correctly it could save a lot of grief.

Directly to answer the mamba ownership question. I do own a few of them and have worked with hundreds of them and can say with proper knowledge , respect and handling tools they are not that difficult but knowledge of the species as well as handling techniques are a must. Then again that goes for any species.

To many people look at venomous as deadly monsters when in fact they are nothing more then a snake. YES VENOMOUS and requiring certain safety precautions. Once a person gets past the eewwwsss and awwwwwws of venom and looks at the snake as a snake and shows it the proper safety precations do a hazardous animal it is no more or less dangerous then any other animal that can pose a risk of danger.

Thanks