Viarable Kings

[Southern Wolf]

will they normally take rodents as babies or are they a species that has to be switched over?

 

[jlassiter]

All snakes are individuals.....You will get corns and common kings that are hard to get on rodents as well......

Thayeri are the same....Some take pinkies right off the bat....Some you will have to work with......If you plan on breeding anything be prepared to work with them........

It mainly depends on husbandry.....not the snake......

John Lassiter
CoastalBendCaptiveBreeding.com

 

[getula]

I had my Georgias(Eastern Kings) and every single baby ate right out of the egg. Same with my Brooksi Kings they ate pinks w/ zero problem. My NJ Easterns on the otherhand...only 1/3 ate pinks the others wanted baby snakes. It was like that every year so I believe if you get babies that take pinks readily then their offspring has a better chance of being less picky with food selection. I think people confuse picky feeders with snakes that refuse any and all food. It may not be your husbandry skills but what you are offering.

 

[Southern Wolf]

My question is ... overall is that species known to be rodent eaters or are they more like Gray Banded Kings that take alot of work to get them to switch.

I have MBK babies that havent missed a meal... so Im just trying to get input on that species as a whole.

 

[getula]

Yeah I believe them to be picky feeders. Again its not that they wont eat its a matter of finding what they will.

Keith

 

[Chico Reptiles]

I have never had a problem getting them to take rodents. Mine will take rats and mice f/t and live.

 

[Greatballzofire]

Because I keep pyromelana I also keep a colony of sceloporus fence lizards for scenting pinks. So far my pyros have eaten unscented just fine, but I have had friends who keep gray banded and Thayeri needing fence lizard scent to get their baby snakes started. I usually have a supply of frozen lizards I have taken away from my cats as fresh kills (I hate that, but the cats redeem themselves by killing rodents), so I dry and send the lizards to them. This has worked great for people needing the lizard scent. My own method of scenting is to put live lizards in a jar with live pinks and a tiny bit of water, and leave them together for about an hour. Then put the lizards back in their home and feed the pinks out. I did this with a wc Cali king neonate and finally got him to eat.

 

[Southern Wolf]

Thanks for the tips.....

 

[jlassiter]

Yeah I believe them to be picky feeders. Again its not that they wont eat its a matter of finding what they will.

Keith

No Keith....
You can't lump all thayeri as picky feeders......

The worst feeders I ever had was one clutch of cornsnakes and one clutch of holbrooki....

I don't go around stating that All cornsnakes and all Speckled kings are picky feeders.......

I found with thayeri (and I hatched ALOT over the last 13 years) it is about husbandry.......Not about finding what they will eat....They WILL eat rodents; they are opportunistic feeders.......

I bet those ole black and white kings (chains) of yours would eat rodents too if you didn't shove them in a plastic tub with some newspaper and a water bowl.......

 

[jlassiter]

I have never had a problem getting them to take rodents. Mine will take rats and mice f/t and live.

Mine too......I wonder why they have such the reputation?

It's because folks like Keith and others making broad, misinformed statements and they don't even work with thayeri....

If anyone wants to know how to provide the correct husbandry for a thayeri and allow them to thrive rather than just live email me....I will be glad to share my experiences with thayeri and all mexicana........

 

[getula]

Yours have always taken rodents huh? Never had problem feeders with Thayeri? Dude please dont make crazy false statements without realizing their is a search feature for past forum posts. I'll reiterate Thayeri are picky feeders so stop regurgitating FR's mystical "Snake Whisperer" info and think for yourself. Here is your post as a refresher for ya....
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Posted by: jlassiter at Sat Apr 9 12:59:53 2005 [ Email Message ] [ Show All Posts by jlassiter ] [ Log in to Follow this user on Connect ]

Rin,
First off good luck with your thayeri project.
Every year I have a few stubborn feeders that I have to get feeding on mice. Here is a summary of what I do.

Step 1: Offer live newborn pinkie. If it is refused then....

Step 2: Offer brained, live pinkie. The brained pinkie is cut from snout to base of skull. If it is taken, reduce the incision each time until it is no longer necessary to stimulate feeding. If it is refused then....

Step 3: Offer the brained, live pinkie under a dark, nontranslucent bowl with the stubborn feeder. Cover the snake and the prey and check in about 30 minutes or so. This has been the most effective method w/o scenting involved. If the snake refuses then...

Step 4: I lizard has to be obtained. I use Med. House Geckos. Freeze the lizard in a deep freeze right away for about 1 hour. Get a live newborn pinky and put the frozen mouse and a pink in a container together and remove from freezer. The warmth of the pinkie will absorb the scent. Place it under a dark bowl with the snake and check in about 30 minutes or so. If the snake refuses then....

Step 5: Thaw out the lizard and cut its abdomen open. Dip the head of the pinkie into the guts of the lizard. Place some skin from the lizard on the pinky's head and place under the dark bowl with the snake. If this fails then....

Step 6: Most people would go ahead and repeat all the steps above for about 6 to 8 weeks until they get results. If the stubborn feeder does not feed then drop its temps to around 55 or 60 degrees for about 6 to 8 weeks. After removal from the temps repeat all the steps above.
Other people would feed then small lizards or lizard parts. I have had luck feeding them about 4 to 5 lizard meals then scenting pinks with such lizards. I have also had luck hibernating and then feeding. Remember if you start forcefeeding you will have to continue to do so to keep weight on the snake. It also stresses the snake out and it is harder to get them to start feeding on their own. Also, forcefeeding will kick in their metabolism and they will need to keep eating to keep on weight. They can live for months on the eggyolk absorbed in the egg. Just letting them wait on a winter cooling usually helps alot for spring feeding. I hear of people forcefeeding mouse tails successfully, but I have never even attempted it. The only force feeding I have done has had a low percentage of success. I have blended pinkies and used pinky pumps. I have even used Veal Gerbers baby food mixed with Pedialyte and Multivitamins successfully, but again it stressed the snake.
This is my abridged version but it should help you out. If you have any problems getting any thing eating drop me an email and I would be glad to help you out. Snakes are individual and each need a little something to get them convinced to eat pinkies and frozen thawed pinkies too.
I hope this helps you out Rin and others,
John Lassiter

 

[getula]

Back to your rude post...I have bred Thayeri in the past I just dont anymore. The problem feeders you mentioned in the previous post..you know the ones you had to scent pinks with lizards for. How were your husbandry skills different and lacking with these problem feeders as opposed to the animals that fed on pinks right away? I ask because you said its all about husbandry so how did you screw up those poor picky feeders? Enlighten us please.

 

[jlassiter]

Yours have always taken rodents huh? Never had problem feeders with Thayeri?
SHOW ME WHERE I STATED THIS KEITH??????

WHEN DID I SAY I NEVER HAD A PICKY FEEDER KEITH???????
QUIT MAKING CRAP UP AND THERE WON"T BE ANY.....

I have that stepped out document on my website....I Share it all the time.....It has also grown a bit since 2005......Plus my husbandry has changed since 2005.......

And yes I still have a few stubborn feeders, but so do cornsnake guys, bp guys, getula guys and pituophis guys.....So WTF are you trying to say Keith....I still don't understand your insinuations.........

And I will SHARE that information with whoever wants it.......

Getula and corns can be stubborn feeders too, but I don't go around labelling all of them as stubborn like you are doing with Thayeri Keith......so STFU....

Don't come on this forum and flat out state that Thayeri are stubborn feeders when getula can be too....Quit labelling them and creating that misconception......All species can have stubborn feeders, but changes in husbandry can and do make a difference.......

 

[jlassiter]

One more thing....
Thanks for posting those steps here Keith.....
They work....
They work for every type of mexican and montane Lampropeltis......even a few getula......

Check out the caresheet on my website. It is more detailed and doesn't follow the "cookie-cutter" way of keeping snakes alive......It allows them to thrive while they are alive.......

 

[getula]

You contradict yourself too much. I believe in the "Pinkie Pump" thread not too long ago Thomas Davis so eloquently said anyone who uses a Pinkie Pump is retarded. You agreed 100% yet you clearly state you use Pinkie Pumps...do I have to say it?

Im not sure why you attacked but I only addressed Thayeri in my initial posts but you started a personal tirade. I stated my opinion on Thayeri its no more fact than your opinion. I didnt dump on your opinion I would expect the same from you next time, grow up Lassiter.

Keith

 

[jlassiter]

You contradict yourself too much. I believe in the "Pinkie Pump" thread not too long ago Thomas Davis so eloquently said anyone who uses a Pinkie Pump is retarded. You agreed 100% yet you clearly state you use Pinkie Pumps...do I have to say it?

Im not sure why you attacked but I only addressed Thayeri in my initial posts but you started a personal tirade. I stated my opinion on Thayeri its no more fact than your opinion. I didnt dump on your opinion I would expect the same from you next time, grow up Lassiter.

Keith

You need to worry about your own black and white kings Keith and about yourself....it's what you specialize in and enjoy......You should Not worry about me, mexicana or montane kingsnakes.....

My "personal tirade" started when you made such a broad statement that thayeri were picky feeders.........I say there are some getula, corns, bps and pituophis than can be just as or more stubborn than thayeri.......

Read that Pinky Pump KS thread again Keith......I do not condone using a pinky pump and I do not use a pinky pump......
I used a pinky pump in 1999 and 2000 and I will never use one again....I killed a hatchling once with one.......And I stated it stresses the snakes.....I do not "use" pinky pumps....No contradiction at all.......That was a decade ago already........

And I am glad you stated, finally that it was your opinion and not fact concerning thayeri.......But you DID dump on my opinion concerning husbandry....So I expect the same from you as well.....If there is a "next time."

BTW....I'm all grown up......LOL

 

[Southern Wolf]

I have a question..... can ya'll take the bashing each other to PM?

Im trying to learn about this species because I am interested in them, but if they are gonna put additional work on my plate (ie having to raise something to scent with) then I probably wont be getting into them.

Thus I am asking questions before I leap.

Thank you.

 

[getula]

BTW....I'm all grown up......LOL[/QUOTE]

Yeah I can tell. Good luck with your projects.

 

[getula]

Sorry Kevin didnt mean to hijack your thread. Im of the OPINION that if you really like something the "extras" you have to do for them are worth the trouble. Thayeri are really cool and come in many colors so if anything they are beautiful but can be problematic feeders out of the egg.

Keith

 

[Southern Wolf]

Sorry Kevin didnt mean to hijack your thread. Im of the OPINION that if you really like something the "extras" you have to do for them are worth the trouble. Thayeri are really cool and come in many colors so if anything they are beautiful but can be problematic feeders out of the egg.

Keith

Keith... I agree with ya on the extra's... the problem I have is Im a one man show... and I already have 200+ on my plate.

Its the colors that have turned me onto them, but time at times is of a premium. I do plan on getting out of some species because they dont work in with my plans, but I dont need to replace them by stubborn if you know what I mean.... thats why I asked about them.

Yes... I know corns and other kings can be picky.... lord knows I had my share of pain the the butt corns this year.... but I was just trying to get an overall sense of the species. I love the Gray banded kings, but they are known to be picky and I was wondering if the same applied to the Variables.